[Mei-gathread] Favor the shooter cryo = tuscanian rage

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02/14/2018 11:59 AMPosted by Shnobz
Cryo-Freeze still does not reload Mei's gun, that is embarrassing.

even this wont change anything.
I only see 3 ways to actually change something.

Buff abilitys -> bigger wall etc.
or
Buff damage -> less damage falloff
or
Buff/rework ultimate

Mei is not that good because she is underpowered or bad designed hero.
She does no damage to shields, cannot quickly kill someone if there is no shield, has no mobility, has a weak ult, no range damage, but thats what you need to be a viable dps.

If you really have problems with her ammo, you doing something wrong. And freezing someone should only be used in certain situation and not be your primary thing you do. Thats why it should never been buffed in my opinion. It's just a braindead, non skill ability. and making her more canacer is not what the game needs.
02/14/2018 03:54 PMPosted by Plague
02/14/2018 03:37 PMPosted by Kawagima
Not sure if this was suggested already, but I'll post here anyway:

Honestly, I think they should completely remove the Freeze part, but then increase the primary fire damage (And her ultimate) and make it disable movement abilities while you are affected by the slow. This would turn her unto a threat to High Mobility heroes while still allowing others to fight back.

Yes, this would reduce her effectiveness against heroes without Movement abilities, but let's be honest here: What we need is a anti-flanker that is actually reliable (Not Jesse McCree) and she will be able to fight back the not mobile heroes with her alt fire which deal a very respectable damage.

I think it would be a fair trade-off for being able to shut down these pesky flankers and Mei would finally have an actual role in the game.

the problem is that a lot more characters rely on movement abilities than just tracer/genji. How would you even get close to a team running a mei if all she has to do is lightly spray you? It would force the meta to pretty much deathball only, and even there her walls are extremely powerful.

Besides, she's already not very weak against most mobility heroes. She forces genji to save dash to get out, has the possibility to 1shot tracer, can deny d.va completely. Her main issue against dive is winston's bubble tbh.

Bugfixes, a buff for her ult to speed up the cast time (if d.va can just 360 matrix on reaction then it's too slow, period.) and something to stop the silly jumpspam to prevent getting frozen by the ult are things i believe she absolutely needs.

Besides that, the reload on cryofreeze would be nice, as well as maybe making her freezespray shoot a bit faster to make it slightly easier to hit mobile/speedboosted people (mostly genji jumpspamming). like the speed of the spray coming out of the gun, not the actual speed at which it freezes/uses ammo. making it slightly more like hitscan.


You are forgetting I am suggesting to completely remove the freeze and only keep the slow and add the move skill denial... People need to dash away from Mei because if they do not, they get fully frozen and get finished of with the icicle Headshot (Or in case of D.Va just keep getting frozen and shot with icicles over and over until demeched).

In my suggestion, if all she do is spray on people, they can still fight back with their weapons which all cause much more damage than the primary fire of the Endothermic Blaster (Which currently only deal 45dps which is slightly lower than Moira's Biotic Grasp). The idea here is to have her to give her a chance to icicle these high mobility heroes instead of simply watching them dash away as it currently happen.

Sure, she won't be able to permanently lock down tanks anymore because they will simply gun her down with their superior HP pool, but then again, Mei isn't suposed to be fighting tanks (That's Reaper's job), we need her to stop flankers. And if Mei can actually stop flanker movement, they would need to be more careful when approaching her team or pick another character to deal with Mei that don't rely on move skills (Like McCree for exemple).
They can keep those buffs.

Im so done watching every other Hero just getting so much attention and work. Junkrat, Mercy, Sombra - they will continue to try balancing everyone else and just keep ignoring her. I'm so done with this.

Can't decide if I should actually Main her in comp now (I never play her in comp) and don't give a damn about my teammates or if I should just stop playing her at all, trying to find another character that is more rewarding.
02/14/2018 03:33 PMPosted by Shnobz
02/14/2018 03:30 PMPosted by Watchit
I'm grateful for the buffs for sure, especially the ammo reduction which is something a lot of players asked for


No one asked for it. Everybody asked for ammo reloading during Cryo-Freeze.


According to Str1kernaut's polling, roughly 39% said they wanted changes to Mei's icicle ammo. I know it's not a majority and not as popular as the cryo-freeze reloading, but it's not nobody.... And to be clear I really would have preferred the cryo-freeze reloading over the ammo reduction.
With all due respect, these buffs are insulting. Mei has been F tier forever and this changes nothing. Meanwhile, Sombra's entire kit is being buffed and she can now see ANYONE that takes any damage? Mei is not "close to being balanced". She's in F tier and is being left to die. The half second slow duration doesn't help anyone except for maybe the lowest levels of Mei play. At high level Mei play, you either get the freeze off or you don't. Having an extra half second of a slowed Tracer or Genji won't stop them from blinking away or dashing away like always. The two extra icicle shots are very nice, but the actual icicles need to be looked at. Her damge output versus shields and Pharmercy is NOTHING. Mei's icicle is a huge skill shot. It's a projectile that needs to be primed and the shot lead. Already that's two things working against it. The fact that I can dink a pharah in the air and do about 30 damage is insulting.

This is also ignoring the elephant in the room that Mei's cryo is bugged and can get hacked inside cryo, hook pulled out, and junkrat trapped inside cryo. The hack and hook cryo happen about once per game session, where you'll lose the cooldown and still be hooked/hacked. This is very frustrating because you know you outplayed the Roadhog or Sombra but still get punished. Junk trap happens less often, but it's definitely there.

Please, I ask that you guys revisit Mei's damage and fire output capabilities. I don't understand how an F tier character can be given 10% more ammo before reload and the developers can call it a day. She needs a lot more help. Blizzard is difficult to do anything with, again because it's a projectile with a cast time, AND an activation time for the freeze to go off. That's simply too much time for everyone to react. Not to mention 2/3 of the cast can escape with mobility or just by walking out.

I have over 400 hours on Mei over PS4 and PC. She's a ton of fun, but she needs help and this isn't the buff she needs....
02/14/2018 02:38 PMPosted by Shnobz
Technically all changes are buffs. But they fix nothing. Yes, slightly longer freeze is nice, but only against tanks and other heroes with low mobility. Genji and Tracer still can easily avoid freeze and escape from Mei.

20 ammo Icicle is nothing. Okay, now we can spam 10 Icicles instead of 8. But it is still the only projectile with damage fall-off in the game. And Mei still can't reload her gun during Cryo-Freeze, while this was one of the most demanded buffs. And she still has a lot of gamebreaking bugs. And her ultimate is still the easiest to escape or interrupt.

Yes, PTR changes are buffs. But they look like a joke, tbh.


I see what you are saying. It is odd, usually the Devs go "big" and then scale things back. With Mei, they seem to be taking baby steps.

The reloading while in cryofreeze is something I want too, but I think their answer to the issue (of running low on ammo and not being able to protect yourself post cryo) is the lowered ammo cost. It isn't the same I know, but I see it as their way of trying to tackle the issue. It might not work, but that is why there is the PTR.

The freeze increase is... I don't know. Seems like another "we hear you, but lets just see how this goes". A sort of bandaid on the issue of movement and the like.

Overall, nothing on the bug fixes for Mei, which I think are paramount.
The problem with buffing Mei is that she's kinda in the same place Bastion was/is in: Destroys !@#$ at low levels of play, but is crap at high levels of play.
02/14/2018 08:56 PMPosted by Mack

It might not work, but that is why there is the PTR.


Tbh if that's what's in the ptr, that's whats getting pushed out. Period. They've never reworked anything they've put in the ptr before releasing changes. Look at Mercy. Dva. The disaster that was Bastion. Roadhog.
Mei will be no different; they'll release her with the current changes and then one of two things will happen. Either they'll keep messing with her numbers, or they'll forget she exists.
02/14/2018 09:07 PMPosted by Joey
The problem with buffing Mei is that she's kinda in the same place Bastion was/is in: Destroys !@#$ at low levels of play, but is crap at high levels of play.


Mei absolutely does not destroy Sh^t at lower level. Her main damage source, right clicks are extremely difficult to land.
02/14/2018 09:12 PMPosted by Kendragon
02/14/2018 08:56 PMPosted by Mack

It might not work, but that is why there is the PTR.


Tbh if that's what's in the ptr, that's whats getting pushed out. Period. They've never reworked anything they've put in the ptr before releasing changes. Look at Mercy. Dva. The disaster that was Bastion. Roadhog.
Mei will be no different; they'll release her with the current changes and then one of two things will happen. Either they'll keep messing with her numbers, or they'll forget she exists.


They're going to push this out and never touch Mei ever again.
02/14/2018 09:15 PMPosted by HurrDurr
02/14/2018 09:07 PMPosted by Joey
The problem with buffing Mei is that she's kinda in the same place Bastion was/is in: Destroys !@#$ at low levels of play, but is crap at high levels of play.


Mei absolutely does not destroy Sh^t at lower level. Her main damage source, right clicks are extremely difficult to land.


Can't even suggest giving her more reward to her skill shot otherwise its "Oh she'll be a better McCree".

>.>
The freeze time was the wrong place to buff her.

The problem with Mei isn't how long her freeze lasts. Even at 1 second, it was pretty easy to pin down heroes like Soldier, McCree or Reinhardt.

The problem with Mei, especially in the current meta is that the heroes that can easily escape her will still be able to. High mobility heroes SHOULD fear a hero that can slow them down, but with how mobility is designed in this game, there's no real reason for them to fear anything except a Sombra hack.
02/14/2018 09:28 PMPosted by Awkward
The freeze time was the wrong place to buff her.

The problem with Mei isn't how long her freeze lasts. Even at 1 second, it was pretty easy to pin down heroes like Soldier, McCree or Reinhardt.

The problem with Mei, especially in the current meta is that the heroes that can easily escape her will still be able to. High mobility heroes SHOULD fear a hero that can slow them down, but with how mobility is designed in this game, there's no real reason for them to fear anything except a Sombra hack.
Seriously look at this video comparing the changes: https://streamable.com/p3w4x

It's literally nothing, especially with Tracers and Genjis flying around and a Winston bubble in our face. If they reworked freeze slow to actually affect Genji dash and Tracer Blink distance/speed i would be impressed.
I feel like these buffs are giving Mei a bit of an identity crisis. They are excellent buffs, don't get me wrong I just have trouble figuring out what exactly what role she is being encouraged into.

Right now Mei's main issue is dealing with mobility, simply because heroes with high mobility easily escape all her tools, even the wall in the case of heroes like Sombra and Tracer.

I feel like that while the icicle buff will help her in dealing with flankers a bit, it seems like overall the changes are a much more bigger buff to her in the anti-tank category. The icicles are easy to land on large targets so their ammo buff is a significant DPM increase, and the frozen duration being increased really only helps against beefy targets.
02/14/2018 09:12 PMPosted by Kendragon
02/14/2018 08:56 PMPosted by Mack

It might not work, but that is why there is the PTR.


Tbh if that's what's in the ptr, that's whats getting pushed out. Period. They've never reworked anything they've put in the ptr before releasing changes. Look at Mercy. Dva. The disaster that was Bastion. Roadhog.
Mei will be no different; they'll release her with the current changes and then one of two things will happen. Either they'll keep messing with her numbers, or they'll forget she exists.


02/14/2018 09:21 PMPosted by MeiOnTheMoon
They're going to push this out and never touch Mei ever again.


They actually have reworked things from PTR before they went to live.

I just don't think its time to start hyperventilating.

Anyway, have a link to a recent clip of one of the worst, long term bugs that every Mei player (even the "#1 Mei") has seen and are still waiting to be fixed.

https://clips.twitch.tv/TrappedTransparentTomatoCclamChamp
02/14/2018 09:31 PMPosted by MeiOnTheMoon
It's literally nothing, especially with Tracers and Genjis flying around and a Winston bubble in our face. If they reworked freeze slow to actually affect Genji dash and Tracer Blink distance/speed i would be impressed.


Yeah, personally I think they should have gone the opposite direction. Reduce Mei's slow duration, but massively buff what the slow can do.

Mei would have been a far better candidate for the passive lockout that Sombra is getting on the PTR, as it'd cause her to be a massive threat against mobile heroes, without making her an anti-everything, since Sombra is already massively effective against Tanks and most Supports.
IDEA to counter high mobility heroes without countering slow heroes:

When cryofreeze ends, it explodes shooting shards of ice in all directions.
Shards of ice deal no damage.
Enemies hit by shards of ice have their movement abilities disabled for a small amount of time which depends on how much time Mei was in her cryostasis.

Example: if Mei ends her cryofreeze instantly, shards of ice will be less effective, its effect will last only for 2 seconds.
Effect time: min 2 seconds / max 4 seconds
Movement passive (wall climb, double jump) are affected too.

Shards of ice can not be deflected by Genji.
Shards of ice can be blocked by shields like Rein or Zarya.
02/14/2018 10:47 PMPosted by Awkward
02/14/2018 09:31 PMPosted by MeiOnTheMoon
It's literally nothing, especially with Tracers and Genjis flying around and a Winston bubble in our face. If they reworked freeze slow to actually affect Genji dash and Tracer Blink distance/speed i would be impressed.


Yeah, personally I think they should have gone the opposite direction. Reduce Mei's slow duration, but massively buff what the slow can do.

Mei would have been a far better candidate for the passive lockout that Sombra is getting on the PTR, as it'd cause her to be a massive threat against mobile heroes, without making her an anti-everything, since Sombra is already massively effective against Tanks and most Supports.

Mei absolutely destroys most tanks though
02/14/2018 10:50 PMPosted by Alex
IDEA to counter high mobility heroes without countering slow heroes:

When cryofreeze ends, it explodes shooting shards of ice in all directions.
Shards of ice deal no damage.
Enemies hit by shards of ice have their movement abilities disabled for a small amount of time which depends on how much time Mei was in her cryostasis.

Example: if Mei ends her cryofreeze instantly, shards of ice will be less effective, its effect will last only for 2 seconds.
Effect time: min 2 seconds / max 4 seconds
Movement passive (wall climb, double jump) are affected too.

Shards of ice can not be deflected by Genji.
Shards of ice can be blocked by shields like Rein or Zarya.


I am actually in love with this idea. Though I think they should deal a little bit of damage, just to certainly prevent camping.
Personally i find those 2 buffs pretty neutral: they don't contribute to make Mei more powerful. IMO adding the reload in cryo would be better because Mei would be ready to fight again out of cryofreeze and would have more possibilities of survive. I linda feel disappointed because i made that huge poll and feom that it emerged the fact Mei doesn't need more icicles but needs a more effective freeze mechanic agauinst fast heroes. Also any buff to her kit would be a placebo until the cryofreeze and blizzard bugs will be fixed

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