Lucio feels 'heavy'

PTR Feedback
After going on the PTR and testing Lucio, although his wallride is still hugely nerfed, its at least better than live. However, getting altitude has been a serious problem. Lucio feels like roadhog on skates, he's just so heavy. In order to get altitude, it takes significantly more jumps as well as having very close walls. Also, after coming off a wallride, he drops like a log.

I wont get into how controls are wonky now, as now jump has to be timed in a single precise use in order to do anything.

His wallride is now pretty much capped around 2 jumps, any more takes too much effort to be effective.
Doesn't he feel heavier on Live than PTR right now?

10/11/2017 10:06 AMPosted by Dixx
In order to get altitude, it takes significantly more jumps as well as having very close walls. Also, after coming off a wallride, he drops like a log


Are you comparing this to Live or pre-exploit fix? IME he can corner climb better on PTR than Live. But his corner climbing is slightly worse on PTR than Lucio 2.0 pre-exploit fix.
Yeah, the newest PTR definitely gives back some of the speed he lost with "exploit fix" on live yesterday, but he still cannot gain height like he used to be able to.
We've increased the boost he gets off walls, but there was an extra vert component that wasn't increased proportionally so thats probably why he feels heavy, he isn't getting as much lift as before.

We're going to do another PTR patch today, i'll see about getting this vert boosted as well.
10/11/2017 11:50 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
We've increased the boost he gets off walls, but there was an extra vert component that wasn't increased proportionally so thats probably why he feels heavy, he isn't getting as much lift as before.

We're going to do another PTR patch today, i'll see about getting this vert boosted as well.


Thank you so much! I appreciate the timeliness that this whole matter is being addressed. There is still hope for froggo after all!
10/11/2017 11:50 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
We've increased the boost he gets off walls, but there was an extra vert component that wasn't increased proportionally so thats probably why he feels heavy, he isn't getting as much lift as before.

We're going to do another PTR patch today, i'll see about getting this vert boosted as well.


Can't wait to try!
10/11/2017 11:50 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
We've increased the boost he gets off walls, but there was an extra vert component that wasn't increased proportionally so thats probably why he feels heavy, he isn't getting as much lift as before.

We're going to do another PTR patch today, i'll see about getting this vert boosted as well.


Is it possible to lower the Jump input sampling rate so mousewheel doesn't jump faster than spacebar? Address the exploit without compromising the gameplay mechanics.

A lower sample rate makes over-powered 'superboosts' very difficult to obtain and restores balance without degrading the skill curve and challenge.
10/11/2017 11:50 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
We've increased the boost he gets off walls, but there was an extra vert component that wasn't increased proportionally so thats probably why he feels heavy, he isn't getting as much lift as before.

We're going to do another PTR patch today, i'll see about getting this vert boosted as well.


Honestly, if you can give him this small vertical boost while wall jumping it will do a great deal to improve how he feels. Thanks a lot Geoff
10/11/2017 11:50 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
We've increased the boost he gets off walls, but there was an extra vert component that wasn't increased proportionally so thats probably why he feels heavy, he isn't getting as much lift as before.

We're going to do another PTR patch today, i'll see about getting this vert boosted as well.
If you just make him identical to before the patch then it would be great. Is it much harder than that?
10/11/2017 11:50 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
We've increased the boost he gets off walls, but there was an extra vert component that wasn't increased proportionally so thats probably why he feels heavy, he isn't getting as much lift as before.

We're going to do another PTR patch today, i'll see about getting this vert boosted as well.

I don't use Lucio a whole lot, but this sort of transparent communication is greatly appreciated, regardless of what hero or mechanics it's addressing. Thank you.
Geoff,

Definitely appreciate you and the team digging into this.

Thanks!
I've been a Lucio main since season 2, loved Lucio 2.0, and I felt discouraged for playing him after the recent update. My favorite thing was him being fast, get-in-get-out, and having the ability to be where you want, when you want and the recent issues have been killing the fun. I'm all for eliminating the scroll wheel input "exploit", however I agree with everyone else that Lucio is one of the best designed characters in the game and needed zero tweaking. If you can prove that you can fix the scroll wheel input without changing his playstyle/feel for speed, I will finally get around to buying his gold gun, no bamboozle.
Are you comparing this to Live or pre-exploit fix? IME he can corner climb better on PTR than Live. But his corner climbing is slightly worse on PTR than Lucio 2.0 pre-exploit fix.


This was never an exploit see here someone doing it with rightclick, just as if it was scroll down. "This doesn't affect anyone who was using Lucio (with jump not bound to scrollwheel), only those that were abusing this bug." - Goodman

https://gfycat.com/BasicAshamedEmperorshrimp
10/11/2017 01:25 PMPosted by Zomitlu
10/11/2017 11:50 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
We've increased the boost he gets off walls, but there was an extra vert component that wasn't increased proportionally so thats probably why he feels heavy, he isn't getting as much lift as before.

We're going to do another PTR patch today, i'll see about getting this vert boosted as well.
If you just make him identical to before the patch then it would be great. Is it much harder than that?


There were people abusing a bug that caused Lucio to get a super speed boost from wallriding, that's what they're trying to prevent without affecting the regular players.
10/11/2017 11:50 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
We've increased the boost he gets off walls, but there was an extra vert component that wasn't increased proportionally so thats probably why he feels heavy, he isn't getting as much lift as before.

We're going to do another PTR patch today, i'll see about getting this vert boosted as well.


you could just revert it here's the petition about 585 since someone made it last night

https://www.change.org/p/blizzard-entertainment-revert-the-10-10-2017-lucio-wallride-change
10/11/2017 03:37 PMPosted by IWillDeliver
you could just revert it here's the petition about 585 since someone made it last night

https://www.change.org/p/blizzard-entertainment-revert-the-10-10-2017-lucio-wallride-change


They won't, since the fast input style speedboost goes nuts on the high tickrate servers they use for OWL. They're clearly willing and in the process of fixing Lucio to be fast and mobile again, but the old implementation can't come back.
10/11/2017 03:55 PMPosted by Coffeeling
10/11/2017 03:37 PMPosted by IWillDeliver
you could just revert it here's the petition about 585 since someone made it last night

https://www.change.org/p/blizzard-entertainment-revert-the-10-10-2017-lucio-wallride-change


They won't, since the fast input style speedboost goes nuts on the high tickrate servers they use for OWL. They're clearly willing and in the process of fixing Lucio to be fast and mobile again, but the old implementation can't come back.

I would be fine not to have the need to input multiple times, however the delay that you have to be on the wall to receive a boost is too long. I would rather still play with scroll wheel even if wall skimming for a boost wouldn't be a thing.
10/11/2017 03:28 PMPosted by watafu
10/11/2017 01:25 PMPosted by Zomitlu
...If you just make him identical to before the patch then it would be great. Is it much harder than that?


There were people abusing a bug that caused Lucio to get a super speed boost from wallriding, that's what they're trying to prevent without affecting the regular players.

They advertised wall skimming on their twitter as a feature. You can't really say its a bug after that.
Thanks Geoff, I am encouraged to see that there will now be two iterations within a day of the Halloween patch. Not sure if the Lucio I tested a few minutes ago (1.16.0.0.40484) was the first or second version, but I agree with the original poster that he feels heavy.

One major difference I've noticed is that I get a pretty significant speed boost after leaving a wall that I have been sliding along, and this does feel quite a bit better than Live, but maintaining speed and gaining speed increases during wall hoping/skimming still is lacking quite a bit from where he was.

Thus, PTR Lucio still feels like a nerf to more advanced Lucios and I think it lowers his skill cap. Note that in the OverwatchEU Lucio twitter post, the beginner Lucio is only using the sliding mechanic while the advanced Lucio is only using the hoping/skimming mechanic. Repairing this general discrepancy and allowing for the potential for the advanced wallrides again, is my primary hope for whatever version eventual hits Live.

Maybe something such as reducing his fall rate slightly could have this effect without requiring complicated changes to the in-game physics and this would also help with the way he now feel like he has lead rollerblades (rather than plastic). Don’t want to make him too easy though :)

I would add that vertical climbing (such as corner climbing) still feels like it requires significantly more effort than it did before 1.16. I noticed that small wall irregularities are causing more trouble than they used to. An example are the small lips that are common at the tops of many walls now make more it difficult to get beyond them to get over the wall. This is a huge problem on Live as well and this aspect of the changes may not have been given as much attention as the loss of the speed boost. I am hoping that I was testing the first iteration of PTR Lucio and the second version you mention above is still to come and will resolve this as well as the “heavy” issue.

Finally, as much as playing Live will be frustrating for us Lucio main until changes are introduced, I’d rather you take your time with the PTR testing and get it right than rush to get just a semi-good fix implemented.

Thanks for reading
honestly lucio on ptr is starting to feel pretty good to me. I think with the change Geof is talking about he will be in a good place where he can still be really skillfull and fun

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