[MEGATHREAD-UNCAPPED] Symmetras place in the game

General Discussion
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What the hell are these mobility changes? Symm is already getting destroyed left right and centre thanks to the moira orb change

and Blizzard just decided to buff all her counters again (all heroes who dont even need buffs)

Please just let us know what you want to do with her, guys... this is starting to get unbearable
bump
Alright, i'm done. 200 pages of comments and no blue post. Blizzard is tendering to their fking mobility dps heroes that are already op and are ignoring f tier heroes so badly. Symmetra and Mei and so horrible, and Blizzard doesnt even want to give us at least a notification that they are looking into these characters. Im not going to stop posting on this thread until we get a blue, reasonable response.
12/19/2017 03:09 PMPosted by Prozen
What the hell are these mobility changes? Symm is already getting destroyed left right and centre thanks to the moira orb change

and Blizzard just decided to buff all her counters again (all heroes who dont even need buffs)

Please just let us know what you want to do with her, guys... this is starting to get unbearable

Can you elaborate?
12/19/2017 01:52 PMPosted by Drathnoth
12/19/2017 01:46 PMPosted by Elusive
What if Symmetra cooldowns specifically on turrets were lowered by her primary and secondary fire hitting the enemy.

According to the comic she is capable of draining energy what if she used that energy to gain more turret stock and possibly for photon barrier to a lesser extent?
https://comic.playoverwatch.com/issues/overwatch/4/en-us/pages/6/6-3.jpg

I like the idea, but it encourages a combat Symmetra (which again, I like), but most people here want a support Symmetra.

3863 posts without any blizzard response, How many posts do other threads take?

I don't think they want a decent rework, I just want a bandaid that uses her current kit so I can at least start using her again.
At least if she gained turret stock from hitting enemies I could put up with Moira being the ridiculous hard counter that she is now and she would be usable.

It isn't ideal but it's better than neglecting her into oblivion.

On a side note do you think they hate Symmetra as a character?
Her design and abilities?
Her balance?
Vishka?
India?
I just don't get it.
No responce then I will post something weird

Healer sym

Leftclick- shoot heal balls. Moves like junkrat nades but only heal at hit.

Rightclick- upgraded shooter. Faster orbs. Faster charge. Infinite ammo like rock buster.

Shift- dash. Sym is shielded while using dash. It has no damage.

E. Plant turret. Only one turret. 150hp. Sym alone can jump on it for higher jump. does 50dps to near enemies

Ult: ultimate buster- big laser. 2sec charge time. 300 damage. Knockback
I have an a idea...


    - Primary and secondary fire stays the same.
    - Sentry turrets with no CD and doesnt slow sym while placing turrents.
    - Photon Barrier removed.
    - TP/SG moved to E as "Photon Build".
    - New Ult: Photon Bless.
    - New Pasive: Shield Regenerator.


Changes:
- Photon Build: TP/SG now work as Moiras Orb, you choose one of them but they stay as long as the enemy doesnt destroy it.
TP starts with 1 charge, and as Sym does damage she stacks charges with a max of 3.
SG works the same way but just gives 50 of Shield.
Maybe we can add here a 3th option, build smalls health packs, a total of 3 with 3 in stock. All of them get destroyed when Sym place a TP or SG. Small Health packs can be destroyed by the enemy.
- Photon Build should have a total of 8 secs of CD
- Photon Bless: All enemies are blinded for three secs and the HP of the team is completely turned into shield points for 15 secs, also Sym shoots only full charged orbs in this 15 secs.
- Shield Regenerator: Works in the same way as Mercy Pasive ability but for her Shield Points.
12/19/2017 04:01 PMPosted by Jsleezy
12/19/2017 03:09 PMPosted by Prozen
What the hell are these mobility changes? Symm is already getting destroyed left right and centre thanks to the moira orb change

and Blizzard just decided to buff all her counters again (all heroes who dont even need buffs)

Please just let us know what you want to do with her, guys... this is starting to get unbearable

Can you elaborate?


They are making aerial mobility easier to control and are fixing speed when going up and down ramps with and without mobility abilities. All are essentially buffs to mobility heroes that can launch themselves in the air, which are Winston and Junkrat primarily. Which are increasing mobility based counters to Symmetra. Winston in particular is mega buffed from this because he can aim his jump better from side to side.
Symmetra needs a rework we know this

Dmg mitigation would be good my favourite idea is reducing dmg by percentage like how bastion passive does
12/19/2017 04:27 PMPosted by Odd
12/19/2017 04:01 PMPosted by Jsleezy
...
Can you elaborate?


They are making aerial mobility easier to control and are fixing speed when going up and down ramps with and without mobility abilities. All are essentially buffs to mobility heroes that can launch themselves in the air, which are Winston and Junkrat primarily. Which are increasing mobility based counters to Symmetra. Winston in particular is mega buffed from this because he can aim his jump better from side to side.

If you bunny hop with Symmetra it seems to work really well, I was dominating for a few games there.

Then I joined 1 game with a Moira and I was taken out of the game.... Quite literally I couldn't get any value out of my turrets so I stopped testing the changes.

The most notable change is against Doomfist, some people might have noticed you are practically paralyzed on live once he starts hammering you, On PTR you retain some control it feels nicer.
Teleporter:

Now has unlimited charges.

Symmetra now has a new passive called "Mhmmmmm." Where she deals 100% more dmg when 5m near her ults.

When teleported, the ally goes through another dimension where they have to walk on a rainbow road and have to avoid Mario and his friends on karts, if one of them hits you you die again with 50% less respawn time. But if you make it to the other side you manage to teleport to whatever destination.

If the teleporter is destroyed while inside this other dimension, your character must have the dance emote to compete in a dance contest to please Jeff Kaplan, if you don't, Your character will die with a 500% increased respawn timer and you will lose 20 SR.

If you win the dance contest however, you receive a buff where all dmg you deal is increased by 100% for 25 seconds. If killed during however, Jeff Kaplan will ban you for the rest of the season.
12/19/2017 04:10 PMPosted by Elusive
<span class="truncated">...</span>
I like the idea, but it encourages a combat Symmetra (which again, I like), but most people here want a support Symmetra.

3863 posts without any blizzard response, How many posts do other threads take?

I don't think they want a decent rework, I just want a bandaid that uses her current kit so I can at least start using her again.
At least if she gained turret stock from hitting enemies I could put up with Moira being the ridiculous hard counter that she is now and she would be usable.

It isn't ideal but it's better than neglecting her into oblivion.

On a side note do you think they hate Symmetra as a character?
Her design and abilities?
Her balance?
Vishka?
India?
I just don't get it.
I don't think they hate Symmetra... she was one of the only designs that existed from the beginning of project Titan, one of Overwatch's first heroes, they've scrapped so many ideas but kept our mage-like architech in the game with perhaps 2 or 3 changes in overall design...

Problem is the community hates her, there aren't many players out there that can handle playing Sym on high rank play, so it's harder to put together tutorial videos and having her VODs analized.

The game became much more reliant on healing too, we have 2-2-2(healers) comps now, but before we could do with and off healer and sym and the team would do just fine. Even though Symmetra has a 0% tournamente pick rate this current meta is probably one of the most diverse this game ever had, and I pretty much understand their decision of keeping things stable for a while, we'll probably suffer for a bit longer, but they just managed to erase Lúcio must pick status in tournament play, next support overhaul will have to deal with stabilizing Mercy pick rate and doing something about Symmetra, probably.

I do think, though, that Sym would only be viable if she got either overpowered or if healing as a whole had a little bit less impact in the game, right now people are relying too much in sustain(because of mercy and sometimes moira), and Symmetra fits more aggresive comps as she herself does not heal so the better strategy would be to eliminate the enemy team quickly

I don't think her pick should force a 3 support situation, even though I think 2-2-2 shouldn't be forced onto people, it's just that if she neeslds a 3rd support to be viable, she isn't taking a support slot at all :/
I mean, honestly, they made a hero that can build cities out of thin air. They can at least do justice with her by thinking of a lot of !@#$ she can build. It would be such a shame to see a hero with a fascinating/creative lore go to waste because they can't think of things for her to build or at least just be accepted generally in games
She can't be played in competitive. It's so disheartening to hear your own teammates say "Hey swap off symm she sucks."
...
3863 posts without any blizzard response, How many posts do other threads take?

I don't think they want a decent rework, I just want a bandaid that uses her current kit so I can at least start using her again.
At least if she gained turret stock from hitting enemies I could put up with Moira being the ridiculous hard counter that she is now and she would be usable.

It isn't ideal but it's better than neglecting her into oblivion.

On a side note do you think they hate Symmetra as a character?
Her design and abilities?
Her balance?
Vishka?
India?
I just don't get it.
I don't think they hate Symmetra... she was one of the only designs that existed from the beginning of project Titan, one of Overwatch's first heroes, they've scrapped so many ideas but kept our mage-like architech in the game with perhaps 2 or 3 changes in overall design...

Problem is the community hates her, there aren't many players out there that can handle playing Sym on high rank play, so it's harder to put together tutorial videos and having her VODs analized.

The game became much more reliant on healing too, we have 2-2-2(healers) comps now, but before we could do with and off healer and sym and the team would do just fine. Even though Symmetra has a 0% tournamente pick rate this current meta is probably one of the most diverse this game ever had, and I pretty much understand their decision of keeping things stable for a while, we'll probably suffer for a bit longer, but they just managed to erase Lúcio must pick status in tournament play, next support overhaul will have to deal with stabilizing Mercy pick rate and doing something about Symmetra, probably.

I do think, though, that Sym would only be viable if she got either overpowered or if healing as a whole had a little bit less impact in the game, right now people are relying too much in sustain(because of mercy and sometimes moira), and Symmetra fits more aggresive comps as she herself does not heal so the better strategy would be to eliminate the enemy team quickly

I don't think her pick should force a 3 support situation, even though I think 2-2-2 shouldn't be forced onto people, it's just that if she neeslds a 3rd support to be viable, she isn't taking a support slot at all :/

They might not hate her but I find it extremely disrespectful to go on this long without a proper response after other threads get them when they have significantly less attention, Obviously they are aware this thread exists but let's see what the Mei thread response was.

12/03/2017 11:52 AMPosted by Bill Warnecke
Hey folks thanks for the well written post and great discussion. Please continue to use this thread for Mei discussion and we’ll monitor it. Cheers.

We deserve some kind of post like this, It doesn't take effort, It doesn't take much of anything all it requires is some kind of respect.

By the time they finally get around to doing anything with Symmetra one of two things will have happened.
I will have uninstalled overwatch due to frustration at the developers.
Or I will have been banned for becoming increasingly outspoken at how disappointed I am in this whole situation.

Symmetra can be viable in a team if they stop neglecting her and stop building the game around "How can we make this hero counter Symmetra as much as possible"
Moira is a literal hard counter now, What the hell were they thinking????????
It literally deletes turret value, I have been playing Moira and I can make a Symmetra totally useless.
A Winston can kill a Symmetra, A Moira can remove all her value.

We had the photon barrier bug that paused the cooldown when you looked at walls for 9months, We still have the Mei wall bug.
The problem isn't just her kit, The problem is the neglect and the neglect is just plain disrespectful.

All I want is for them to pay the same respect to Symmetra as they do to someone like Genji.

I mean buffing Symmetra would be great but at this point I want them to pay attention and stop actively ignoring her, It takes so much effort to get her bugs recognized that they generally get noticed within bug threads for different heroes.....

I feel I will be bitterly hating this game very shortly....
12/19/2017 06:34 AMPosted by aba1
12/19/2017 04:58 AMPosted by DrFate
Can we also get something that makes her more skillful because right now whenever I say I'm masters everyone just says "but ur a sym main so it doesn't count"


Wait you are in masters where she is considered hot garbage but people still tell you she is a not skill hero. Isn't that a little contradictory XD.

people, especially master above, don't like admitting they're garbage at the game too
I know we all want our Queen to be a better support

But like

We can support our team AND fry the egos of cocky dps, yes? I mean besides the whole battlefield strategy aspect of her kit, one of the reasons I fell in love with Symmetra is that she’s a deadly support that’s easily accessible and makes Genjis cry.

I really want to make more Genjis cry.
12/19/2017 01:21 PMPosted by SilentStorm
Many people have a strong divide to Sym if she's either OP or a to be a waste of space and only a niche role that can only be played on the first point of 2CP maps, which is kinda true in all the wrong ways. Symmetra is brokenly bad, she's clearly not used for what she was designed for as she was meant to be used for both attack and defense, but it just doesn't work with her kit; in fact, Symmetra's overall problems derive with her kit that just won't work for the current state of the game. Lets start with her primary:

Photon Projector: To understand why it isn't fair and just bad, you need to understand how the damage works; essentially every 1 second fires of 4 ammo per second, and every full second that she does continuous damage she gets a incremental boost in damage. Symmetra can do this up to 2 times to make each of her hits from 7.5 to 15 and then finally 30.

This doesn't seem bad at first until you realize it takes too long for Sym to actually do anything productive and it completely relies if the enemy doesn't notice her and kill her with the faster burst dmg or movement abilities that other heroes have. When she starts firing, she dishes out (4 hits * 7.5 =) 30 dmg per second, keeping in mind that people think that Moira is OP for 50 unscalable dmg per second.

But when she gets 1 second of uninterrupted dmg in, she scales to (4 hits * 15 =) 60 dmg per second, which now is equal to Winston's primary fire, but the difference with him and Sym is that he has consistent 60 and is able to fire at multiple people with unscalable dmg whereas Sym can only target 1 person with 1 beam.

And after getting two seconds of continuous dmg, Sym is finally able to dish out (4 hits * 30 =) 120 dmg per second. Now this is what many people consider to be the broken part of her kit with her 7 meter lock on, 9.5 meter tether break and her very flexible target lock on. But let's be real, Junkrat and Pharah are able to consistently pump out this number without having to scale to this number and the only detriment that they have is if they can't aim generally into the enemy team or choke; with Symmetra, you have to run up to a person, wait 2 full seconds to scale to the 120dps and then be able to somehow steamroll the entire team to keep this number, all without being burst down or maneuverability abilities for self protection AND not being noticed by the enemy team to burst you down faster.

Fix idea: The problem with this part of her kit is that everyone is able to do more damage faster as other heroes are lucky with the ability to land headshots or - for the ones that don't - use their unique weapon to help them with advantages and disadvantages. Sym's primary dmg should be buffed up to keep up with everyone else but detriment how long the time the scale is. As such, her primary fire now scales from 70 to 120 easily, but at the cost of 1.5 seconds so that she can easily be productive in terms of dmg. We could also add the feature of Sym requiring to hit a target with the crosshairs before it does its regular tether, so it requires more skill.
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Energy Ball: This linear projectile is able to pierce through multiple enemies to dish out dmg by either tapping it for 26 dmg or charging for 2 seconds for 125 dmg.

Their are two big issues with this part of her kit. First and foremost, it has an incredibly slow windup time, Sym can be doing so much more but if she wants to dish out 125 dmg, she needs to wait 2 whole seconds. To keep it into perspective, Junkrat can fire two of his 120 primary fire in under 2 seconds without hassle. Secondly is how slow it is, and I don't mean how fast it goes when it's fully charged, I mean you want to just tap it to spam the choke, the weak form of the projectile moves too slow for something that is actually pretty minuscule.

Fix Idea: Energy Ball is now able to fire 20 meters per second when tapping to spam with 52 dmg per orb at it's weakest, but scales in power and speed to the original speed of 10 meter per second when charged for 1 second; now Symmetra is able to do so much more and not just stuck getting the full value out of her Energy Ball.
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Photon Barrier:This ability was the result of a rework that hasn't really shaken Symmetra up and just doesn't actually do much in all honestly.

For starters, the shape of the shield only helps if you're moving forward in chokes, it doesn't protect you from the sides nor behind. Secondly, it doesn't have a very strong purpose other than to protect quick ults or to protect yourself, but even then you have a ridiculously long cooldown of 10 seconds that supposed to move without any control. A lot can easily happen in under 10 seconds that would be hard to protect. To sum it up, I can't expect to believe something as unreliable as this would with a big cooldown would help my team and myself in any non-niche way.

Fix idea: I already came up with an idea on how this ability should work: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20760756103#post-1,
but I'll improve on it here even more by adding more info to it:
An idea I came up with since Sym has some connection in tech with Lucio, give Sym a variant of Crossfade. What I mean by this is change her E Photon Barrier into an ability that swaps what her Shift Turret ability dishes out. This would help in her variety and overall usage and skill since it would be hugely beneficial to gain positional advantage.
1) Uses 1 turret to throw out a Photon Barrier that is shaped like an oblong bubble, kinda like a stretched out Winston Bubble for easy protection for the sides and back
2) Uses min 4 turrets to build an arched bridge to gain distance from any gaping distance without needing a floor like Mei does, has 2000hp & enemies won't be able to walk on it
3) Uses min 2 turrets to build a jump pad to gain height so heroes like Ana can gain some vertical height advantage, has 800hp, can be placed on a wall so you can bounce on two to get a better height advantage and enemies won't be able to jump on it
4) Builds a regular Sentry Turret (I'll get to this one later on)

The Shift ability would have a cooldown of 6 seconds per turret resource and would have a maximum charge of 12, but is still limited to 6 for regular turrets, 12 for Photon Bridge (allowing 3 bridges), 4 for Jump Pad (allowing 2 Jump Pads), and 1 for Photon Barrier. This way no resources would clash in being used and Symmetra can be utilized to the fullest.

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Sentry Turret: Sym's turret has a 1.4 casting time, 10 meter dmg range, 25% speed reduction that can stack, with a 10 second cooldown with each turret, all of which have 1 HP.

First of all, no one finds it fun to have a turret nest at a choke or in a room, not the enemy, not even the Sym player as it is mind-numblingly boring to do so.
Secondly, having all of your turrets nested around a choke hitting 1 person is easily 120 dps with a 150% speed reduction; IF all do hit without being destroyed, and that is a big IF, cause most tanks can easily take them out, and with the newly added Moira can easily destroy the nest without hassle with her Biotic Orb and Grasp.
Thirdly, it takes 30 seconds to build 3 new turrets, that is the same cooldown as a Mercy Rez, I'm not here to believe that bringing back someone from the dead is as important as building 3 1HP turrets.
Lastly, Torbjorn has a better utility with his singular turret since his have 150 instant health that can gain 150+ health and damage more with a constant range of 40 meters.

Fix Idea: Change the damage from 30 to 50, increase the range from 10 to 20 meters (half of Torb's turret range), twice the casting range, from a 1.4 second to 0.5 second casting time, no slow on cast, increase the health from 1 to 10 hp + 90 shield health and is able to dish out 50% speed reduction easily with wall hacks for the team. The detriments? Each turret is limited to targeting 1 person each, meaning that you can't stack 2 or more turrets on 1 person for a cheap kill; this gives the turret more utility to either put it as a form to not get flanked by the enemy team easily and if you do want to put it into 1 choke, you won't get the full value if you don't spread the turrets. Overall, you can better consider this as a zoning ability since you can place all turrets spread out without losing it's value bundled up.
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Teleporter/Shield Generator:These ultimates are fine on their own, but have a big issue that many Sym players (and anyone else who wants to win) have which causes many issues is that the team would have no idea where to protect said ultimates. Sure you can hope that you can explain in detail on where to walk and what location it's in; but in the end, their is always that one person without a mic or that isn't in chat to hear everyone what's going on, making it harder to work together in a team-based shooter. I mean Sombra got a buff with seeing Hacked healthpacks through walls, and she's all about mic coordination.

Another issue that Sym has is the fact that once she places the ultimate down, she can't refund it back unless the other point has been taken by the enemy; I think that it should be rewarded that you managed to protect your ultimate whilst (like a sniper) move it to a different location after a fight to protect and maintain ult charge.

Fix Idea: A QOL Buff is all that is needed, allow allies to see where the ultimate is, allow Symmetra to detail the status of the Shield Generator, and - like Lucio's ring - allow the team to see how big the radius of the shield generator is, probably with a ring every 10 meters of it's 50 meter range so it can be easier to identify where it is. The other buff to Sym would be to have to waste 2 seconds to manually refund it up close so that Sym can either gain more charge for the later fight, or to manually move it to a different location. We can also increase the ult cost to make it harder to get her ultimate since Sym would be able to maintain it.
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As you can see, Symmetra current state has problems with both as a support and as a supposed "defense hero" since many other heroes can take it's place and do a better job (Moira as a Support, Torbjorn as Defense, etc.). But with these suggestions, hopefully it becomes more apparent that Symmetra can be a utility support whilst not having to just resort to heals and stuck on defense. Hopefully everyone would be able to see this and tell me what you think, I'd like to hear your opinions and if you would like this version of Sym in your games.
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20760766359#post-1
Thought's on this idea?
Silly buff idea again. Junkrat type buff
E skill is now a photon booper. It boops like lucio right click. But it is a build object that can be thrown. When someone is hit by it they are booped away. If they go near it on ground or wall they are booped too. Sym can put it on ground and rocket jump using it. (Different physics applied with enemies)
hey all my friends on my favorite thread! I heard about these mobility buffs and I'm extremely disappointed with the balancing team. The only heroes this benefits are characters who already have the mobility to outpace all the non-mobile characters. It's not a coincidence that characters like Tracer, Pharah, Winston and Dva, who have some of the best mobility in the game, are used more than characters without mobility. This buff doesn't just hurt Symmetra, it hurts any hero who doesn't have an arial mobility skill. It's essentially a nerf to all of Pharah's counters as well. I'm not trying to be dramatic, but these changes are honestly some of the worst I've ever seen from the balance team. Do they even play their own game?

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