[MEGATHREAD-UNCAPPED] Symmetras place in the game

General Discussion
Prev 1 218 219 220 313 Next
Her winrate is high because she is used at point A in one map. Maybe eihen? And switched if she is dead once. She is never good for point b stalling so nobody uses her until the last minute you lose a game. Similar to torbion who also has high winrate
And her stats say more. She isnt much of a killer in high tier. Solo or support kill both. Means she is good for Her Ult. And win or lose purely based on how much she can get out of the ult
12/28/2017 02:05 AMPosted by AConstelle
So after someone pumped the thread about the pace of balance changes (which got a blue post), I re-read it and looked back at what he said about Symmetra (I removed the blue just so no one gets excited):

The game team should be constantly evaluating balance and making changes that are actually needed because a hero is unbalanced. But making changes to a hero because their pick rate is too high or too low is not my idea of responsible game balance. Symmetra’s pick rate is very low right now. We could make changes to make her a “must pick” in the meta (and thus shifting the meta) but I feel like, if anything, I am concerned about Symmetra’s balance and worried that when she does eventually make her way back into the meta she is not balanced properly. So to summarize: balancing heroes who are unbalanced is good, balancing heroes just to make them picked more or picked less is not good (in my humble opinion).


Albeit he just used Sym as an example, everyone is afraid that if Symmetra is meta, she'll won't be balanced. How can we explain to them that that's not the case?


Thanks for bringing this over. It’s hard to say what exactly he means when he says “I am concerned about Symmetra’s balance” in the context of her making it back into the meta - of he’s talking about her being UP or OP when he says he worries she would be “not properly balanced.”

I think all of us would agree she’s far closer to UP, so this could mean he’s saying something more akin to, “I’d rather balance Symmetra because she’s not performing well, than because she isn’t being picked, and we’re concerned about her performance right now.” But maybe I’m being overly optimistic.

However I do somewhat disagree with him in that I think he’s making a false dichotomy. His only thought to counteract her low pick rate is to make her a must-pick? Why? Why is that the only option? Why not shoot for an average pick rate? Not 100% meta but good enough and fun enough that people actually want to play the character. I mean what’s the point of all the effort that goes into a character if you’re perfectly fine with no one ever playing it? What could explain an extremely low pick rate other than a) it performs poorly or b) it isn’t fun to play?
12/27/2017 07:41 PMPosted by Mariip
12/27/2017 06:52 PMPosted by Micrøwave
They might as well implement cricket noises whenever you click on this forum, because the Devs are just that silent....

I mean what gives? What are they even doing? Them remaining silent for this long has led me and a lot of other people to have doubt in the Devs.
As I said before, they are probably out for holidays and won't be reading all this any time soon :/

It's not like they fixed mercy yet anyways :|


Yeah but it's always going to be something. Even before Christmas it was the same. I hope they prove me wrong, but when they get back from the holiday's I still think they will be silent other then the new stuff about OWL.
Blizzard please respond at least let us know you're looking into her, the neglect of Blizzard for Sym has been one of the worst treatments of a character I've seen in any game in a while, what's up with that???
I am getting a little scared that this post will be 300 pages soon.
12/28/2017 05:48 AMPosted by Hawai
I am getting a little scared that this post will be 300 pages soon.


I wouldn't be surprised before we see anything from Blizzard
Vallarian, I had posted a link to your rework ideas when I first saw them on Reddit, I'm glad you joined in, the gun ideas were awesome and the hitscan turrets were a really nice buff.

I wish I had time to compile these ideas and make proper links to each post... but to be frank, that's what blizzard should be doing :|
Wheres that blue post tho?
12/28/2017 07:17 AMPosted by Mariip
Vallarian, I had posted a link to your rework ideas when I first saw them on Reddit, I'm glad you joined in, the gun ideas were awesome and the hitscan turrets were a really nice buff.

I wish I had time to compile these ideas and make proper links to each post... but to be frank, that's what blizzard should be doing :|


Cheers

It stayed in the positive on the main Overwatch page, Which I am surprised about as all posts with rework ideas get downvoted to oblivion, didn't get a huge traction of people though :(

and it dissapeared for me when searching "Symmetra", it doesnt show in the lsit for me anymore which is strange, I thought a mod deleted it on me, but that's not the case, just reddit being strange it seems.

I modified it a little on this after thinking about it some more, better balance and some formatting improvements.
12/28/2017 07:23 AMPosted by DPSMercy
Wheres that blue post tho?


Most likely, the powers that be are on vacation. The mods don’t have the power to respond and barely do anything but edit when thread merging is being ignored
12/28/2017 07:26 AMPosted by Vallarian
12/28/2017 07:17 AMPosted by Mariip
Vallarian, I had posted a link to your rework ideas when I first saw them on Reddit, I'm glad you joined in, the gun ideas were awesome and the hitscan turrets were a really nice buff.

I wish I had time to compile these ideas and make proper links to each post... but to be frank, that's what blizzard should be doing :|


Cheers

It stayed in the positive on the main Overwatch page, Which I am surprised about as all posts with rework ideas get downvoted to oblivion, didn't get a huge traction of people though :(

and it dissapeared for me when searching "Symmetra", it doesnt show in the lsit for me anymore which is strange, I thought a mod deleted it on me, but that's not the case, just reddit being strange it seems.

I modified it a little on this after thinking about it some more, better balance and some formatting improvements.
I wish the hard light didn't seem so hard to implement... i keep thinking it could be really op y'know xD but it would at least force some comps to run Sym

I'm sad you can't find it anymore on the main sub...It had a really positive reception for a Symmetra related post... the Symmetra conspiracy plot thickens~~~

I hope january brings some changes... I'm already dissapointed we won't see her in the OWL at all when right now all teams are running thorb and bastion and orisa and all the "troll picks" that are not sym, but if we could just play her properly again some day(less bans, more teamwork) I'd be happy :/

I hope january brings some changes... I'm already dissapointed we won't see her in the OWL at all when right now all teams are running thorb and bastion and orisa and all the "troll picks" that are not sym, but if we could just play her properly again some day(less bans, more teamwork) I'd be happy :/


even if changes where implemented in January we wont see them until after the OWL was over anyway.

Even after that teams may train on previous versions as most do and not even use her anyway as they don't have practice with the new changes.
12/28/2017 02:33 AMPosted by Hawai
Her winrate is high because she is used at point A in one map. Maybe eihen? And switched if she is dead once. She is never good for point b stalling so nobody uses her until the last minute you lose a game. Similar to torbion who also has high winrate
A common fallacy. Not everyone plays her that way. I only abandon Symmetra when I'm sure it isn't working and our team needs a better pick (usually in QP when our team has defense Genji and the enemy has multiple tanks). So now I have to make up for the slack of what my team lacks. I don't just auto quit Symmetra because we didn't hold point one, unless I know I was the reason we didn't hold it (the enemy has a clever Winston/Moira/Pharah that clears my turrets fast). On a side note, Moira makes it harder to play Symmetra, as her damage orbs take out turrets cluelessly.

Never good for point B? Are you kidding? Your spawn is closer, and you can use shield generator to double down on your team's ability to dig in. This is exactly why I never switch off Symmetra unless I know our team needs something else, because shield generator helps hold point B better than teleport helps hold point A. I usually quit Symmetra on the hybrid maps, since using Symmetra on the streets phase is always tricky. But what do I know, I'm just a dumb gold with a 76% win rate on two hours of comp, and 80 hours of QP experience on Symmetra.

12/28/2017 02:52 AMPosted by Hawai
And her stats say more. She isnt much of a killer in high tier. Solo or support kill both. Means she is good for Her Ult. And win or lose purely based on how much she can get out of the ult
This may be the key part of what you're saying. She's great in low ranks on console, where people think they can be a god with Genji, while they never leave the ground.
12/28/2017 07:41 AMPosted by Vallarian

I hope january brings some changes... I'm already dissapointed we won't see her in the OWL at all when right now all teams are running thorb and bastion and orisa and all the "troll picks" that are not sym, but if we could just play her properly again some day(less bans, more teamwork) I'd be happy :/


even if changes where implemented in January we wont see them until after the OWL was over anyway.

Even after that teams may train on previous versions as most do and not even use her anyway as they don't have practice with the new changes.
:( yeah I know, and it feels bad... but if thy put something on PTR on January I'll consider this thread a success already

12/28/2017 02:33 AMPosted by Hawai
Her winrate is high because she is used at point A in one map. Maybe eihen? And switched if she is dead once. She is never good for point b stalling so nobody uses her until the last minute you lose a game. Similar to torbion who also has high winrate
A common fallacy. Not everyone plays her that way. I only abandon Symmetra when I'm sure it isn't working and our team needs a better pick (usually in QP when our team has defense Genji and the enemy has multiple tanks). So now I have to make up for the slack of what my team lacks. I don't just auto quit Symmetra because we didn't hold point one, unless I know I was the reason we didn't hold it (the enemy has a clever Winston/Moira/Pharah that clears my turrets fast). On a side note, Moira makes it harder to play Symmetra, as her damage orbs take out turrets cluelessly.

Never good for point B? Are you kidding? Your spawn is closer, and you can use shield generator to double down on your team's ability to dig in. This is exactly why I never switch off Symmetra unless I know our team needs something else, because shield generator helps hold point B better than teleport helps hold point A. I usually quit Symmetra on the hybrid maps, since using Symmetra on the streets phase is always tricky. But what do I know, I'm just a dumb gold with a 76% win rate on two hours of comp, and 80 hours of QP experience on Symmetra.
From my playstyle: Symmetra on defensive rounds, Lúcio on offensive, my whole strategy relied on getting a full hold(or at least defending as much as i can ) with Sym, so she would have the key role in guaranteeing my strategy. I never switched off after point A though, shield gen actually makes her better on point B's than point As in my rank, and even if we lost, her playstyle managed to drain the red team's time bank rather well.

I think I am a part of the winrate inflationproblem, but switching after point A was one of the dumbest things you could do imo, she was great defending lastpoints on payload maps before Moira, you just needed to commit to your pick. Granted, she's not good ar stalling, but the point of using her is not letting the enemy team get inside the point without punishing them somehow
What if we changed the inherent function of armor and shields?

Instead of shields being a delayed glorified self heal, they not only regenerate after 1 second of no damage (to compete with Mercy), but they literally block damage and only give attackers 50% charge rate (I don’t know if 0% ult charge would be too op especially attacking a high charge healed Zarya.) Now shield generator would be special as an ultimate because shield gen shields would give attackers 0% ult charge rate.

Armor could be updated from being shield’s medieval cousin to bringing a Renaissance Of Torbjorn craftsmanship. Instead of being temporary glorified hp with a minimal bonus to damage reduction, we increase the damage reduction to be a whole lot beefier BUT reduce the reduction value the heavier and/or longer a character is hit.

Armor packs will now fortify armored characters AND give 50% protection against critical hits. If someone uses an armor pack without dying, a healer can heal it back. HOWEVER healers can only bring armor back to its lowest level of effectiveness. This is where Master Torbjorn comes in. He can now reforge armored allies with his hammer.

Both Symmetra and Torbjorn need love and buffs, and maybe a way to do that without immediately diving into rework territory is updating shields and armor functionality.
12/28/2017 05:48 AMPosted by Hawai
I am getting a little scared that this post will be 300 pages soon.

Well people like Symmetra and want her to be an acceptable pick in comp. I mean, I don't want Symmetra to be the new Mercy and be in every game or every other game. But I want Symmetra to be a reasonable pick, so that if I want to play Symmetra on illios, I'm not getting yelled at for putting my team at a disadvantage.

Plus a lot of people have really good ideas. I think my one concern with the direction of most of them is that it means Sym will have the most complex kit in the game with the most effects. Although if we're being honest, that does fit her character I think.
Of all the topics, this is one of the best. I hope Symmetra gets fixed/improved/Rebuilt to bring her back in alignment with the game’s agressive and fast-paced nature that this game has become.
12/27/2017 10:28 PMPosted by UkeNicky
12/27/2017 08:27 PMPosted by Jsleezy

For 200+ pages, I still feel like the best option would be reworking photon barrier to rival healing.


How can you rival healing with utility support and not be labeled "broken" but also not too weak.
I think it's really easy actually

Look at just the support
Ults and compare them. Lucios ult is pretty good compared to the other support ults right? It's powerful and balanced. It's not a healing ult yet it contests the other healing ults in the game.

Decaying shields like lucios ult would work fine

Or maybe an anti discord orb where a teammate gets 30 percent less dmg taken and it's like a harmony orb

That could definitely contests healing in some comps

She won't contest healingin every situation but she will contest healing in enough situations

The possibilities are endless

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum