[MEGATHREAD-UNCAPPED] Symmetras place in the game

General Discussion
Prev 1 307 308 309 313 Next
02/12/2018 12:26 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
We disagree that Mei needs a major rework. We are trying some improvements to her but they are not major.

Symmetra will require more work to get into a better place and therefore take longer to address.

So expect QoL/minor buffs for Mei and significant buffs for Sym? Looks like they still have a lot to discuss about her, and that's good!
You guys Jeff finally has made a reply to Symmetra and they way Jeff worded his statement, Symmetra MAY get another rework. :-)

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20761687589#post-10
Symmetra mentioned by Jeff yet again. In a post claiming Symmetra needs more than a rework. Jeff replied with...

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20761687589#post-10

02/12/2018 12:26 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
We disagree that Mei needs a major rework. We are trying some improvements to her but they are not major.

Symmetra will require more work to get into a better place and therefore take longer to address.
I'm so happy they're listening to us.

I updated the bottom of the main thread for the devs to read
Sure, it's good to see that Symmetra is gonna receive some love from the devs (finally), but if I'm being completely honest in asking, what do you think actually made him finally see that Sym is in a bad state?

Was it the low pick rate but high win rate? Was it the fact that Symmetra is the lowest, if not, most avoided hero in OWL? Or was it this thread with people making suggestions pointing out that both mains and non-mains agree that she isn't in a bad state?

I don't want to cause a fight like I don't appreciate Symmetra, but I really don't know at what point could've been the deciding factor in saying Symmetra was not in a good state.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20761757331#post-1
02/12/2018 01:29 PMPosted by SilentStorm
Sure, it's good to see that Symmetra is gonna receive some love from the devs (finally), but if I'm being completely honest in asking, what do you think actually made him finally see that Sym is in a bad state?

Was it the low pick rate but high win rate? Was it the fact that Symmetra is the lowest, if not, most avoided hero in OWL? Or was it this thread with people making suggestions pointing out that both mains and non-mains agree that she isn't in a bad state?


For me it definitely was the OWL, that's clearly by far their main focus because the game itself is exposed to everything in that media. It's not a coincidence that the league started on January and at the end of that same month they're announcing buffs wether major or minor to the least played characters in the game.

Obviously Symmetra is the worst out of all of them, the pros didn't even picked her and that's cuz she doesn't even work well in those niche scenarios that the devs mentioned she's supposed to excel at.
02/12/2018 01:29 PMPosted by SilentStorm
Sure, it's good to see that Symmetra is gonna receive some love from the devs (finally), but if I'm being completely honest in asking, what do you think actually made him finally see that Sym is in a bad state?

Was it the low pick rate but high win rate? Was it the fact that Symmetra is the lowest, if not, most avoided hero in OWL? Or was it this thread with people making suggestions pointing out that both mains and non-mains agree that she isn't in a bad state?

I don't want to cause a fight like I don't appreciate Symmetra, but I really don't know at what point could've been the deciding factor in saying Symmetra was not in a good state.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20761757331#post-1


I think it's a culmination of many things. Maybe because every pro overwatch game someone is showing posters off to play symmetra.

First "where is symmetra" then "play symmetra you cowards" and there's more that haven't been on camera. They're pushing to have a pro scene when theres 20% of their roster which is seeing abysmally small playtime, or in the case of symmetra, none at all.

Dozens of threads about off-meta bans.

Throw in popular megathreads and dozens of posts daily to fix them in the actual game for the actual player, and I think that even blizzard can't ignore the under-performing heroes.
02/12/2018 01:29 PMPosted by SilentStorm
Sure, it's good to see that Symmetra is gonna receive some love from the devs (finally), but if I'm being completely honest in asking, what do you think actually made him finally see that Sym is in a bad state?

Was it the low pick rate but high win rate? Was it the fact that Symmetra is the lowest, if not, most avoided hero in OWL? Or was it this thread with people making suggestions pointing out that both mains and non-mains agree that she isn't in a bad state?

I don't want to cause a fight like I don't appreciate Symmetra, but I really don't know at what point could've been the deciding factor in saying Symmetra was not in a good state.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20761757331#post-1
Maybe the whole commotion that happened in the last day of OWL, with people asking for Symmetra and the crowd's reaction when she wasn't played(even though it was some bad pick for the situation) got to them, to see people cheering for a character that is hated in ladder to be played that way is a bit os a powerful thing, even is it was made for the lols, commentators are talking a lot about that too so no way they wouldn't have noticed.

But I believe the main reason is the influx of people OTPing her, like it or not, OTPs are a thing that exists and people will play some characters even if they are sub-optimal, so the best thing you can do is making them more viable, I believe they just realized that.
I think it's kind of hilarious that a new Symmetra thread got a Dev response but this thread of over 6000 posts (I believe?) has had nothing.

I'm glad that they seem to understand that Symmetra will need more than some small tweaks to be brought up to par. I just wonder if they'll finally make her more of an active support or if they'll take a more drastic approach and reclassify her as a defence hero (which, if I'm being honest, might actually reduce the toxicity levied at Symmetra players).
I want to congratulate everyone who's remained vocal about our desire to see Symmetra in a good position within the game. This thread is amazing and it's finally clear our thoughts have made it across to the devs.
I'm cautiously optimistic about these buffs but I do have a few concerns. I think all the Symmetra mains have a good idea about whats wrong with her. She's unreliable, all the other supports out class her and have support that they can fall back on outside their ults. But with their recent comments it doesn't really seem like they see it that way. They've said that she's intentionally a "niche" hero, which means they'll probably never allow her to have the same kind of impact Lucio or Zenyatta can have. I don't want them to turn Symmetra into a character who is very suppressive and difficult to get past in one situation (first point defense) and extremely weak in every other area. How is that any different than what she is now? The reason people even want Symmetra buffs, and why even the Sym haters can't deny she's weak, is because of how insanely situational her value is. The developers need to start asking why a support player would ever swap off a healer and onto Symmetra. And unfortunately, if their plans are to make her a hyper-defense hero and switch her class I'm afraid we won't ever see Symmetra viable outside of first point defense.
02/12/2018 06:02 PMPosted by Brady
I'm cautiously optimistic about these buffs but I do have a few concerns. I think all the Symmetra mains have a good idea about whats wrong with her. She's unreliable, all the other supports out class her and have support that they can fall back on outside their ults. But with their recent comments it doesn't really seem like they see it that way. They've said that she's intentionally a "niche" hero, which means they'll probably never allow her to have the same kind of impact Lucio or Zenyatta can have. I don't want them to turn Symmetra into a character who is very suppressive and difficult to get past in one situation (first point defense) and extremely weak in every other area. How is that any different than what she is now? The reason people even want Symmetra buffs, and why even the Sym haters can't deny she's weak, is because of how insanely situational her value is. The developers need to start asking why a support player would ever swap off a healer and onto Symmetra. And unfortunately, if their plans are to make her a hyper-defense hero and switch her class I'm afraid we won't ever see Symmetra viable outside of first point defense.


I`m still skeptical, but, Jeff in the developer update said this; "We don`t believe she need major buffs" also "we`d like to give her a little bit more", this was on the 25 january update video. Today Jeff response was this: "Symmetra will require more work to get into a better place and therefore take longer to address". First was "a little" but now is "more work". My best guess is that behind the scenes they talked more about Symmetra and probably got different conclussions than the ones in the update,and end up changing their minds (similar to what happened with D.va), but who knows. What we can conclude of this newer response, is that the changes are bigger than we previously expected.
Good to know devs are enlighten. But try to be calm because they always think up something like SG.
It wont be easy to fix her
Guys we have done it, we never gave up and kept fighting and now we have caught wind of the devs actually listening to us

thank you jsleezy for making this wonderful thread, it is worded so well that thousands and I mean literally thousands of sym mains and even normal players banded together on this thread

Let us look back and remember how hard we all fought

I started posting on this thread since page 30 and still post to this day, and I posted almost four times a day because of how great the discussions have been

but I won't stop and we all shouldn't stop talking either because now the devs need guidance

We are the sym mains of the world, and we can shape our reality, and we should guide the devs because no one knows symmetra better then we do



It is our charge as sym mains to oversee any sym changes and make sure they are right for sym, and it is also our charge to help guide the changes

And we can do that by posting more
One thing I really don't understand is the idea of countering heroes. Like the game had that as one of it's core values, but then when dealing with Symmetra (one of the first playable heroes btw) he said she's a situational pick that 'holds a space down'.
Only Symmetra and Mei get this kind of treatment, all the other characters have their pros and cons but Symmmetra is countered by nearly everyone, and can't do a whole lot if the team won't work with her. (And i'm not saying work around her, you don't have to make her the center of your comp)
This rework really needs to give her independence, and hopefully give her the rightful spot on the defense category.
02/12/2018 01:29 PMPosted by SilentStorm
Sure, it's good to see that Symmetra is gonna receive some love from the devs (finally), but if I'm being completely honest in asking, what do you think actually made him finally see that Sym is in a bad state?

Was it the low pick rate but high win rate? Was it the fact that Symmetra is the lowest, if not, most avoided hero in OWL? Or was it this thread with people making suggestions pointing out that both mains and non-mains agree that she isn't in a bad state?

I don't want to cause a fight like I don't appreciate Symmetra, but I really don't know at what point could've been the deciding factor in saying Symmetra was not in a good state.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20761757331#post-1


She was the only hero not played at the World Cup back in November. She has been in a bad spot for a while. I also wonder why they waited this long to address her.
If there's one thing I absolutely do not want them to do it's give her healing turrets. Why? Because 1 HP turrets with a 10 second recharge, limited deploy range and a self-slow upon building would be horrendous for a healer. Imagine a Winston sneezing on all 6 healing turrets and being sh*t out of luck for the next 10-60 seconds while you can't heal your team. At least Moira can actively regenerate her healing spray resource should she run out. Not to mention the fact that Symmetra doesn't have room in her kit for a way to have said healing turrets target specific allies, which would be a must for any healer.

I'd prefer that they make a Healing Turret support character from the ground up with that functionality in mind rather than tack it onto Symmetra.

I think the biggest questions the devs have to ask themselves are 1): "What exactly is Symmetra's role?", 2) "What situations would it ever be beneficial to switch onto Symmetra?" and 3) "How much utility is necessary to make up for a complete lack of healing? And is it worth the trade-off in current Overwatch?"
anyone else ever just go into custom games and make a "self balanced" version of Symmetra, and play games against bots?

It feels so nice.
---
Photon Barrier cooldown: 75%
Sentry turret cooldown: 0%
Ultimate generation: 90%
Damage dealt: 80%
Symmetra's HP: 113%
Jump vertical speed: 115%
Ammo size: 150%
Projectile speed: 250%
---

I removed the cooldown of her sentries, and gave her 15% more jump height to simulate having extra cast range.

I gave her more HP since an HP boost is undeniably a buff in all scenarios

Her damage is lowered, but she has much more ammo and her Hp and Barrier buff let her stay in the fight much more often so she can still get her ult very fast.

The energy Orb buff gives her a weak but still useable weapon in a medium range fight.

i wish I could do more specific things but this is the closest to what I currently envision of a balanced sym
I hope the dev team considers Symmetra's current position, and how she does not fit in any team comp at all. Ultimately, there are 3 roles in this game. DPS, Tanks and Healers. The current argument about Symmetra and other F-Tier Heroes is that they do not fulfill any of these 3 roles.

Symmetra is not strong enough to take the slot of a DPS. She is certainly capable of it, but your team is sacrificing damage for her support utility, and you already have 2 supports. "Not enough damage" is the main complaint here.

Symmetra's supportive aspects are not equal in value to healing, and her Ultimates (her only real supportive abilities), do not have enough impact to justify taking her as one of the Supports. "Not enough healing" is the second complaint.

Mei suffers from this as well, she doesn't output enough damage to be a DPS, but she does not have the Health Pool or appropriate cooldowns to be taken in the Tank slot.

If Blizzard wants Symmetra to be viable, she needs to be considered a "Healer", without healing abilities. I will be interested to see what they do, but I can't imagine they will easily accomplish this.
02/11/2018 06:53 PMPosted by sodartic
i feel that moira has pushed symmetra even deeper in the trashcan lol


When her orb was able to destroy a nest instantly...

Very dark times...

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum