Advice Needed - Stay on alt, or go back to main? (SR?)

Competitive Discussion
I have the same question for myself

This account is cursed,..voodood...whatever.. Losing streaks only.. maybe 1 win in between after 15 losses to go back to 15 losses again and repeat..

My other account is in low plat for the last 2 seasons..Doin fine there...

But on this one i have 4 golden weapons and close to the 5th... all the dances and event skins/emotes and stuff..

Worked so hard for all those things...

Maybe i should just not care about it.. I dont know what to do either ;)
12/02/2017 11:11 AMPosted by Applesoup
12/02/2017 08:18 AMPosted by Copycat
According to Kaawumba the first 20 - 50 games on the alt will be "better" for lack of a better term
Well, his information is a bit outdated.

They did have a system in place, where after you placed in the beginning of a season, your first ~30-50 games would have increased SR. So, your lost SR was less and your gained SR was more. But, this was back when they purposefully placed you lower so that you had "a sense of progress." They've done away with this system though.

Basically, the only thing they've really stated is that on a new account, the system becomes more "sure" of where you belong as you play more games. They've also stated that this "surety" skews if you haven't played for a while.


Okay, gotcha - so the short n' skinny of it is that newer accounts tend to be a bit more accurate, then?
my main is destroyed. when i first started playing over a year ago i was new and learning. but the legacy of my first placement still follows me. last season i placed 1900, reached 2450, then dropped to 1500, and finally rose to 2000 (approx) by the end of the season.

this season i placed 1750 (literally lost every single placement match -- 3 with leavers) and climbed up to 2350, then fell to 1700 after a losing streak caused the MMR to start grouping me with "boosted" gold 8 year-old kids over and over, day after day.

the more hours you play, the more confused the SR/MMR system gets. This was admitted by devs. If you took out 30 hours from my main (which has a 65% win rate) so that it was closer to the other heroes I tried to flex with, seeing that their win rate as come in at 46-48% this season, I would still be where I am or even lower despite the fact that I'm in the top 25% with my main -- which SHOULD keep me high plat / lowest (barely barely) diamond, BUT the MMR keeps matching me with whole groups who have 15 - 20 hours of comp time, meaning they haven't hit their "wall" yet.

NOW MY ALT, which I created fresh, to test it, placed at 2550. Put simply, it's because it doesn't have the "legacy" of climbing through bronze - silver - gold - gold - plat over 5 seasons. It put me in the same place it would put anyone else: about 150 lower than the end season rank.

The system really needs to take the performance of defense characters into account as much as attack characters -- especially since we must often fill this roll. If I have to put out more dps AND kills AND objective kills AND objective time, it needs to be rewarded with more than 26 SR for exemplary performance. When I get 22 SR for a game where I was doing my job BUT everyone else was doing great at their job as well, I accept it, but those are the games I am usually playing flex for -- the system does not reward counter-picking as well as it should.
12/02/2017 11:17 AMPosted by Copycat
Okay, gotcha - so the short n' skinny of it is that newer accounts tend to be a bit more accurate, then?
It actually means that they are less accurate.

They base your starting MMR off of quickplay, which is obviously, something that most people don't take seriously. But, they need a starting metric.

So, once you place, your MMR goes up or down a lot based on how well you do. They eventually find a spot where you aren't outperforming/underperforming all others, and you pretty much just sit there, unless you improve. This can take quite a few games.
12/02/2017 11:11 AMPosted by Applesoup
12/02/2017 08:18 AMPosted by Copycat
According to Kaawumba the first 20 - 50 games on the alt will be "better" for lack of a better term
Well, his information is a bit outdated.

They did have a system in place, where after you placed in the beginning of a season, your first ~30-50 games would have increased SR. So, your lost SR was less and your gained SR was more. But, this was back when they purposefully placed you lower so that you had "a sense of progress." They've done away with this system though.

Basically, the only thing they've really stated is that on a new account, the system becomes more "sure" of where you belong as you play more games. They've also stated that this "surety" skews if you haven't played for a while.


I'm not talking about the 50 game SR buff that was removed a few seasons back. I'm saying that new accounts have SR/MMR that moves more rapidly than established accounts. I've vague on how many games the bigger swings last because I have very little data on it (one reroll of experiment of mine, a few forum anecdotes, a vague blue post or two). This effect is still in the game.
12/02/2017 11:34 AMPosted by GrooWasRight
my main is destroyed. when i first started playing over a year ago i was new and learning. but the legacy of my first placement still follows me. last season i placed 1900, reached 2450, then dropped to 1500, and finally rose to 2000 (approx) by the end of the season.

this season i placed 1750 (literally lost every single placement match -- 3 with leavers) and climbed up to 2350, then fell to 1700 after a losing streak caused the MMR to start grouping me with "boosted" gold 8 year-old kids over and over, day after day.

the more hours you play, the more confused the SR/MMR system gets. This was admitted by devs. If you took out 30 hours from my main (which has a 65% win rate) so that it was closer to the other heroes I tried to flex with, seeing that their win rate as come in at 46-48% this season, I would still be where I am or even lower despite the fact that I'm in the top 25% with my main -- which SHOULD keep me high plat / lowest (barely barely) diamond, BUT the MMR keeps matching me with whole groups who have 15 - 20 hours of comp time, meaning they haven't hit their "wall" yet.

NOW MY ALT, which I created fresh, to test it, placed at 2550. Put simply, it's because it doesn't have the "legacy" of climbing through bronze - silver - gold - gold - plat over 5 seasons. It put me in the same place it would put anyone else: about 150 lower than the end season rank.

The system really needs to take the performance of defense characters into account as much as attack characters -- especially since we must often fill this roll. If I have to put out more dps AND kills AND objective kills AND objective time, it needs to be rewarded with more than 26 SR for exemplary performance. When I get 22 SR for a game where I was doing my job BUT everyone else was doing great at their job as well, I accept it, but those are the games I am usually playing flex for -- the system does not reward counter-picking as well as it should.


This is precisely what I was wondering - if anyone else had similar experiences. I was really curious about an account with a "legacy" versus one without. Thanks for sharing your experience!
12/02/2017 11:48 AMPosted by Kaawumba
I've vague on how many games the bigger swings last because I have very little data on it (one reroll of experiment of mine, a few forum anecdotes, a vague blue post or two). This effect is still in the game
Vague isn't specifying numbers.

And yeah, new accounts move quicker than established ones. Which is the only information you know, and the only information I've said. This person literally said after 50 games they were going to stop playing their alt because of the information you provided. I was just letting them know not to do that. ...because they shouldn't.
12/02/2017 09:33 AMPosted by Copycat
I was just wondering if my main account is screwed up due to it being so old.

It's not screwed up because it's old lol
12/02/2017 11:59 AMPosted by Applesoup
12/02/2017 11:48 AMPosted by Kaawumba
I've vague on how many games the bigger swings last because I have very little data on it (one reroll of experiment of mine, a few forum anecdotes, a vague blue post or two). This effect is still in the game
Vague isn't specifying numbers.

And yeah, new accounts move quicker than established ones. Which is the only information you know, and the only information I've said. This person literally said after 50 games they were going to stop playing their alt because of the information you provided. I was just letting them know not to do that. ...because they shouldn't.


Oh I wasn't going to stop playing all together, I should have worded that more clearly. What I meant is I'll play some more and then after ~50 games I will re-evaluate and see where I'm at. :) I fully intend to keep my alt, even if it's just a place where I can practice heroes I'm uncomfortable with without having a silver border as pressure.
If you immediately dropped out of platinum and are within 100 SR of your original account I think it's safe to say you're a gold player. That's not to be mean but typically you'll place a tad higher than you belong on an alt account and then start trending towards where you really belong. Play the alt account more and if you still can't get back into platinum after say 4-5 hours of play you'll have your answer.

Yes there is a hidden mmr but this can be improved by simply playing better over several seasons and not queueing into oblivion at the end of a season so you finish higher. Typically people think they're way better now than they were say 3 seasons ago, but the truth is so is everyone else. Everyone is improving and if you're improving at the same pace as others of your rank then you'll stay the same tier every season. You have to improve faster than the people within your own rank in order to climb.
In my limited experience (my Overwatch account started in June), I have found that the more I play heroes outside of my role and main rotation, the lower my MMR is likely going (as it should) - I feel it whenever I queue anything after multiple games with non-mains. If I play numerous games as my main [rotation] (about three heroes) without playing anything else, I win more games and get much better teammates (in QP and Comp), so I assume my MMR is going up. And if I "one-trick" and exclusively play my one main, it can "skyrocket" until I hit my actual level .... for that one hero.

Unfortunately, my computer limits me to a couple support and a couple of tanks, so my MMR is constantly fluctuating and screwing me over when I'm "forced" to switch (for fear of being reported in Comp for "no teamwork," or sanity in QP) to a tank or support I cannot do, let alone a DPS.

So, I personally feel there can be a lot of self-sabotage with MMR and SR, or "sabotage" by others, because people in Comp will believe you are "not the better ___ player, switch," and throw the game if you don't. Meaning you have to change to something you are not as good with, and therefore less personal stats from the game - whether you win or lose. I cannot imagine how confused the MMR system gets with an older account, but even with my June-made account that wasn't even super active until recently, I am feeling the effects of all the MMR data going against me. Maybe that is my own fault for trying to have fun with non-mains in QP and Arcade, but that also means the MMR/SR system(s) aren't working/promoting one-tricking or a few mains and nothing else.
12/02/2017 07:30 AMPosted by Copycat
EDIT: To be crystal clear, this is not about me trying to "outplay" the system, or something like that. It was strictly a curious "what if" as I have no idea how the back-end "hidden" data in our accounts effects our rank/experience. I am content "belonging in Gold" - that's whatever. My question is more or less just asking, would climbing on a newer account be easier due to less hidden baggage data versus a very old account with tons of data/MMR. Thanks.

Hey everyone,
I bought this account during the Black Friday sale as an alt in an attempt to start competitive with a "clean slate." I had previously done research on how older accounts (my main has a silver border) have this funky hidden SR/MMR that hangs around since your first ever comp season, and you're basically screwed. When I first got the game I, of course, sucked, and did comp as soon as I hit 25, landing me in Bronze. I've since climbed out to Plat, but have been stuck in Gold for ages. Win, loss, win, loss, etc. After doing said research I thought an alt account would be good (and eh, I could spare $20.)

Anyway, I did placements on this account last night and placed Plat which is the highest I've ever placed, but still not my career high. I kept going because I'm stubborn and dumb - despite the climate not being great last night - and ended the night at around 2300. My main is at 2200 currently. My question is - is there even a difference between the accounts at this point? Is "hidden SR" a myth? If the accounts are the same due to their now close SR, should I just focus grinding on my main, with all my shiny gold weapons and skins?

I guess I'm just looking for clarification on hidden SR, if it's even a thing, and if it would be easier to climb on this account because it's a fresh account with less baggage.

Thanks for your time. :)

it doesnt factor in your first season, it takes into consideration like your last 15 games or so thats it. a lot of people out there have like 38% win rates and can easily hit masters and above.
me personally on this account in my first season i hit masters without ever playing on pc before. i currently have 4 other accounts that range within 300 sr from this one. this account is currently almost 3800 i think im not really sure and my highest account is sitting close to 4200 and my lowest account right now is sitting at 3400 because i havent played on it in like 2 or more weeks. IF the game hardlocked you and prevented you from climbing based on your first season ever then boosting would not be a thing. when i made my newest account i duo'd with a platinum player while i was doing my placements to prove to him that climbing was easy if your at a higher skill level then everyone else was in your games and by the time i had finished my placements he peaked into diamond and fell back into high plat, he gained some sr but couldnt break into diamond
12/02/2017 07:30 AMPosted by Copycat
EDIT: To be crystal clear, this is not about me trying to "outplay" the system, or something like that. It was strictly a curious "what if" as I have no idea how the back-end "hidden" data in our accounts effects our rank/experience. I am content "belonging in Gold" - that's whatever. My question is more or less just asking, would climbing on a newer account be easier due to less hidden baggage data versus a very old account with tons of data/MMR. Thanks.

Hey everyone,
I bought this account during the Black Friday sale as an alt in an attempt to start competitive with a "clean slate." I had previously done research on how older accounts (my main has a silver border) have this funky hidden SR/MMR that hangs around since your first ever comp season, and you're basically screwed. When I first got the game I, of course, sucked, and did comp as soon as I hit 25, landing me in Bronze. I've since climbed out to Plat, but have been stuck in Gold for ages. Win, loss, win, loss, etc. After doing said research I thought an alt account would be good (and eh, I could spare $20.)

Anyway, I did placements on this account last night and placed Plat which is the highest I've ever placed, but still not my career high. I kept going because I'm stubborn and dumb - despite the climate not being great last night - and ended the night at around 2300. My main is at 2200 currently. My question is - is there even a difference between the accounts at this point? Is "hidden SR" a myth? If the accounts are the same due to their now close SR, should I just focus grinding on my main, with all my shiny gold weapons and skins?

I guess I'm just looking for clarification on hidden SR, if it's even a thing, and if it would be easier to climb on this account because it's a fresh account with less baggage.

Thanks for your time. :)


There is no point to a "fresh" account. The system is very consistent generally, now whether you agree on how it hands out SR fairly or not is another story.
It absolutely DOES take into account your previous SR, because that is the basis for your placement ranking -- which was affected by the previous season and so on
There isn't a hidden SR. People just think that there is because they don't read very carefully, and because JK and SM don't write very carefully.

You could get back there if you wanted to, on either account. It just takes grinding and luck. It doesn't hurt to have reliable friends you can play with either.

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