Belgium says lootboxes ARE gambling

General Discussion
11/21/2017 03:38 PMPosted by NooneSpecial
Same thing will happen there as in China and South Korea: Loot boxes will no longer be purchasable.
Instead, you will be able to purchase credits directly... that come with bonus loot boxes.

They can't have it removed from the core game because there is no monitary cost to the player. It's no different to RNG item drops in any video game.
just let people earn credits and give the ability to directly purchase stuff
11/21/2017 03:34 PMPosted by Zefiris
As for getting something specific you want, the odds improve in your favor every time you get an item of said quality that's the same of the item you want as it narrows down the possible outcomes the next time you roll something of that quality.
So why have the lootboxes be buyable in the first place?

They are clearly designed to prey on the impatient, and those with addictive tendencies who want something in particular and don't want to wait for it. This especially holds true during seasonal events when the most desirable items are available but for a limited time only (and cost 3x the amount of in-game currency), making the temptation to part with real cash (in a game you've spent £50 on already) all the more apparent.

It disgusts me that people put microtransactions in premium games in the first place. It makes me even more sick to see consumers actually defending them. It is manipulation. You are being manipulated in a game you've paid money for to spend more money. How are you OK with that?

I literally got downvoted in this thread for saying I was against the psychological manipulation of minors for financial gain. That's how bent over the table these guys have you.
11/21/2017 03:10 PMPosted by MetaVolca
11/21/2017 03:07 PMPosted by Tsukune713
If they do anything in Belgium it isn't gonna change anything for anyone except there

Isn't Belgium the head of the EU parliament?

Disband the EU. That solves that problem and a whole host of others.
11/21/2017 03:44 PMPosted by Visi
11/21/2017 03:10 PMPosted by MetaVolca
...
Isn't Belgium the head of the EU parliament?

Disband the EU. That solves that problem and a whole host of others.

And throw the whole world into a recession at the very least because a major market collapses? I don't think so...
They should do something like "Buy 10,000 credits for $50, get 20 loot boxes free!" Or is the free box from leveling also considered gambling? Will they have to disable loot boxes on leveling in the EU?
11/21/2017 03:34 PMPosted by Zefiris
As for getting something specific you want, the odds improve in your favor every time you get an item of said quality that's the same of the item you want as it narrows down the possible outcomes the next time you roll something of that quality.
So why have the lootboxes there in the first place?

They are clearly designed to prey on the impatient, and those with addictive tendencies who want something in particular and don't want to wait for it. This especially holds true during seasonal events when the most desirable items are available but for a limited time only, making the temptation to part with real cash (in a game you've spent £50 already) all the more apparent.
Prey is a strong word. But going back to WoW as reference, they often had to fight players who had "disposable income" and would go against the rules of the game as they were too impatient to play the actual game and wanted all of the rewards up front so they would buy gold, pay for leveling services, using bots, etc. So Blizzard combated the buying of gold and leveling services by offering an alternative to them that had no risk. Which in turn helped curtail goldsellers from compromising accounts and stealing people's gold.

So now relating this to OW, offering lootboxes for sale keeps those players with disposable incomes from paying for services to gain levels as well as preventing botting of players who would go into games to farm xp while they were away. An added bonus with this is that it funds OW for the foreseeable future without worrying of the company deciding to declare the game unprofitable and slashing support.

As for why we have lootboxes and not just getting credits to buy items. It adds a little bit of an excitement as you don't know exactly what you'll get and keeps people playing in hopes of getting what they want. If you just get credits, then people would just calculate the most efficient method of grinding out the credits and figuring out what they want to buy first. Completely removes the feeling of getting lucky or the "omg finally got it" feel.
...So why have the lootboxes there in the first place?

They are clearly designed to prey on the impatient, and those with addictive tendencies who want something in particular and don't want to wait for it. This especially holds true during seasonal events when the most desirable items are available but for a limited time only, making the temptation to part with real cash (in a game you've spent £50 already) all the more apparent.
Prey is a strong word. But going back to WoW as reference, they often had to fight players who had "disposable income" and would go against the rules of the game as they were too impatient to play the actual game and wanted all of the rewards up front so they would buy gold, pay for leveling services, using bots, etc. So Blizzard combated the buying of gold and leveling services by offering an alternative to them that had no risk. Which in turn helped curtail goldsellers from compromising accounts and stealing people's gold.

So now relating this to OW, offering lootboxes for sale keeps those players with disposable incomes from paying for services to gain levels as well as preventing botting of players who would go into games to farm xp while they were away. An added bonus with this is that it funds OW for the foreseeable future without worrying of the company deciding to declare the game unprofitable and slashing support.

As for why we have lootboxes and not just getting credits to buy items. It adds a little bit of an excitement as you don't know exactly what you'll get and keeps people playing in hopes of getting what they want. If you just get credits, then people would just calculate the most efficient method of grinding out the credits and figuring out what they want to buy first. Completely removes the feeling of getting lucky or the "omg finally got it" feel.
No, prey is the exact word to use.

Did we forget the big activision “get people to buy boxes” patent?
belgium will ban anything
Couldn't Blizzard do the same thing as what they did in China?

Add currency with it and say that you have bought 5 coins and received lootboxes as extras?
11/21/2017 03:44 PMPosted by Visi
Disband the EU.
Yes please, done nothing but cost us money.

I like that they consider loot boxes gambling, there should be regulations, presented stats and whatnot when it comes to that stuff.
I mean, yes it is. They claim your chances of Legend items gets better each time you don't get one but we have no proof of that. I went last Halloween event getting only two legend out of boxes out of something like 60 boxes. That's a lot.
11/21/2017 03:52 PMPosted by Bloggerman
Couldn't Blizzard do the same thing as what they did in China?

Add currency with it and say that you have bought 5 coins and received lootboxes as extras?
Idk, they did that to circumvent posting rates. Not sure if they’d allow that loophole or see through it and tell them to sod off.

Guess we’ll see
11/21/2017 03:50 PMPosted by TheReinhardt
...Prey is a strong word. But going back to WoW as reference, they often had to fight players who had "disposable income" and would go against the rules of the game as they were too impatient to play the actual game and wanted all of the rewards up front so they would buy gold, pay for leveling services, using bots, etc. So Blizzard combated the buying of gold and leveling services by offering an alternative to them that had no risk. Which in turn helped curtail goldsellers from compromising accounts and stealing people's gold.

So now relating this to OW, offering lootboxes for sale keeps those players with disposable incomes from paying for services to gain levels as well as preventing botting of players who would go into games to farm xp while they were away. An added bonus with this is that it funds OW for the foreseeable future without worrying of the company deciding to declare the game unprofitable and slashing support.

As for why we have lootboxes and not just getting credits to buy items. It adds a little bit of an excitement as you don't know exactly what you'll get and keeps people playing in hopes of getting what they want. If you just get credits, then people would just calculate the most efficient method of grinding out the credits and figuring out what they want to buy first. Completely removes the feeling of getting lucky or the "omg finally got it" feel.
No, prey is the exact word to use.

Did we forget the big activision “get people to buy boxes” patent?

that is different that type of system isn't inherent to loot boxes but that system would hopefully kill any game it was implemented
11/21/2017 03:05 PMPosted by Buttercult
I wonder if they consider baseball cards, or magic the gathering cards, or things like that gambling.


Most people already do, just because some people are vocal that it isn't doesn't mean it isn't

You are going to spend your allowance on pokemon cards because you want to see how expensive the rare ones are. Maybe you sell a card you pull that has high value and then buy another pack with the money.

This is literally gambling
11/21/2017 03:06 PMPosted by MetaVolca
11/21/2017 03:05 PMPosted by Buttercult
I wonder if they consider baseball cards, or magic the gathering cards, or things like that gambling.

I mean with those you can resell or trade them to get what you want, can't do that with lootboxes.
With Lootboxes, you can get everything you were wanting as long as you are willing to throw money at it.

Being able to resell cosmetics in Overwatch would be a bad thing, as the prices would be asinine. I could get behind being able to gift or trade skins though.
11/21/2017 03:03 PMPosted by MetaVolca
Thoughts?


Can you spread butter chicken on toast?
11/21/2017 03:49 PMPosted by Zefiris
Prey is a strong word.
As my brother in righteous anger TheReinhardt said, it is exactly the right word.

Blizzard didn't put microtransactions in the game because it's your buddy and wants to help you out if you want to speed up the acquisition of ingame loot. it did so because it wants your green, and the whole reward system in Overwatch has been geared towards frustrating players into parting with real-world cash. For example:

Blizzard didn't make levelling a slow process because it had to.
Blizzard didn't allow lootboxes to contain duplicate items because it had to.
Blizzard doesn't refund duplicates with a miniscule amount of in-game currency because it has to.
Blizzard didn't make event items temporarily available and cost 3x as much because it had to.

It's because it wanted to.

See my point yet? It has literally been designed from the ground-up to frustrate and manipulate you into spending more money. Maybe you're OK with that, but in a game I spent a not-inconsiderable amount of cash on just to play in the first place I'm certainly not.
11/21/2017 03:49 PMPosted by Zefiris
An added bonus with this is that it funds OW for the foreseeable future without worrying of the company deciding to declare the game unprofitable and slashing support.
No, buying copies of the game funds the game. I've seen this argument countless times: it treats Blizzard (the company that owns World of !@#$ing Warcraft, the biggest cash cow in the industry) like an indie company living paycheck to paycheck off ramen.

They don't charge money for lootboxes because they need to. They can probably afford to fund Overwatch for the rest of time just using the money they made off the closed beta and the first week of game sales. Get real.
11/21/2017 03:56 PMPosted by Ara
I could get behind being able to gift or trade skins though.
That is a can of worms that we might not want to open. People would take advantage of it and use it to sell skins and such for irl money by third party methods. Plus, it would encourage people to setup skin farming accounts where they get every skin of a type of quality except for the one they're going for in order to keep getting that particular skin in order to sell. Not to mention people would want to target and compromise accounts in order to steal said skins in order to sell.

The potential for abuse is there.
11/21/2017 03:56 PMPosted by Ara
11/21/2017 03:06 PMPosted by MetaVolca
...
I mean with those you can resell or trade them to get what you want, can't do that with lootboxes.
With Lootboxes, you can get everything you were wanting as long as you are willing to throw money at it.

Being able to resell cosmetics in Overwatch would be a bad thing, as the prices would be asinine. I could get behind being able to gift or trade skins though.


Hey you can sell cosmetics in csgo, prices are truly harrowing but mainly because drop rates are also truly harrowing

And you can sell them for real world money too

So even if there was no selling mechanic on overwatch, you know people would still sell the skins if there was trading system for money
I honestly think that Lootboxes are the Shrodinger's cat of Gambling.

They are, and are not. They ARE if the items contained within have a market value, where you have a potential to lose your bet. They are not if the market value is subjective or it is always a net increase.

For Example:

1)You buy a lootboox for $1. The 4 items inside have a set market value of 5 cents each. You lost 80 cents on the gamble.

2) You buy a loot box for $1. All items contained in the lootbox have a value of $2. No matter what, you gain a market value increase in your money (an investment technically).

3) You buy a loot box for $1. There is no market value for items found within. It is completely subjective to the person whos purchasing it. Some people feel that they win no matter what they get. Some people feel jipped if its not the skin they want. But no items have a market value, so its left up to the buyer to think about whats worth while or not, not Blizzard.

Of all the examples, the only one that is clearly gambling in the traditional sense of monetary gains/losses, is example one. The other ones do not qualify.

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