Role Selection! (In depth) :)

General Discussion
-The role select system could either select a 2,2,2 comp (healers,tanks,dps)
-Or you can Do a 3,3 system (3 flex and and 1 of every role: dps,tank,healer).
-Or the number of flex's can be set as 2 instead and you can do 2 flex 1 tank 1 healer and 2 dps (since most flex players play tank and healer).
-This can change in game upon majority vote, explained in next part.
-If someone elects to play support and decides a Sombra or Torb would be viable to fit that slot then there should be an option to hold a vote with your team, and if a majority of the team agrees to vote towards your pick then you can play it. Otherwise you should be locked to play the role you selected before queuing.
-This system would also apply to the two players agreeing to switch roles, only those two players would have to agree on the vote.
-Or maybe just enable a report functionality instead of having the player being locked to a category or having a voting system (this would be important for stalling since sometimes a tank or healer might switch to tracer to stall).
-To keep queue times from becoming very long there should be a small incentive to play healer or tank since a lot more people like to play dps; this incentive should be very small as to keep everyone happy.
-In order for this system to work the hero categories would most definitely need to be redefined; for example Symmetra should be in a defensive category. Or maybe add additional categories.
Voting systems mid-game sound like a horrible waste of precious seconds that could be used for a push or holding a Defensive position. Not to mention are likely to be abused by every person who is even the slightest bit upset about the performance of anyone on their own team.
12/08/2017 09:05 PMPosted by FaylenSol
Voting systems mid-game sound like a horrible waste of precious seconds that could be used for a push or holding a Defensive position. Not to mention are likely to be abused by every person who is even the slightest bit upset about the performance of anyone on their own team.


or if you have a majority stack that can force someone into a role they are not/dont want to play/ not good at ...
12/08/2017 09:05 PMPosted by FaylenSol
Voting systems mid-game sound like a horrible waste of precious seconds that could be used for a push or holding a Defensive position. Not to mention are likely to be abused by every person who is even the slightest bit upset about the performance of anyone on their own team.


or if you have a majority stack that can force someone into a role they are not/don't want to play/ not good at ...
Okay maybe the vote idea wasn't thought through enough but the way teams are selected is something that should definitely be implemented imo.
Role selection would fail in this game.

For example if you were to choose a dps it might take a minute or 2 to que up. Possibly even longer if the role selection roater is filled with an overabundence of dps players. A good example of this is in WOW where dps ques end up being 30 minutes to an hour once you hit que.

This would drastically effect experience and force less and less players to play the game as they want to.

Meanwhile healers and tanks rolea will que almost instantly which would bring the crazy idea of "screw it dpn't play dps wait times are top long might as well play a healer or a tank to instantly get into a match!"

In essence this idea would worl horribly and we've seen it already firsthand in LOL and WOW. Those who haven't experience the drastic change in que times won't understand.

Not to mention that the lock down in one role forces a player to do well in their role or else thus spreading more toxocity and the player role shift would only feed this method of growth.

It won't work and I hope it doesn't get in the game it'll really ruin things further.
How about Blizzard just doesn't allow too many identical mains or one tricks on the same team.

After a certain minimum amount of playtime (~ 3 hours or so), any players who have about +70% of their seasonal playtime on the same hero are deprioritized from queueing together on the same team.

Basically, whatever constraints they could create to prevent multiple people who have vast majority of playtime on same hero from being on same team i.e. 3 Mercy mains or 2 Sym one tricks.

In most cases, a team that has two players who have say 80% of their playtime on Tracer, for example, won't be able to perform to their calculated SR because one of those players won't be able to pick Tracer, instead being forced on a hero they are less skilled with. It'd make more sense to just not immediately match those players on same team.

Note that people who flex or play multiple heroes even within same class won't be affected.

It'd be a nice start to addressing the issue.
12/08/2017 09:20 PMPosted by Remedyheart
Role selection would fail in this game.

For example if you were to choose a dps it might take a minute or 2 to que up. Possibly even longer if the role selection roater is filled with an overabundence of dps players. A good example of this is in WOW where dps ques end up being 30 minutes to an hour once you hit que.

This would drastically effect experience and force less and less players to play the game as they want to.

Meanwhile healers and tanks rolea will que almost instantly which would bring the crazy idea of "screw it dpn't play dps wait times are top long might as well play a healer or a tank to instantly get into a match!"

In essence this idea would worl horribly and we've seen it already firsthand in LOL and WOW. Those who haven't experience the drastic change in que times won't understand.

Not to mention that the lock down in one role forces a player to do well in their role or else thus spreading more toxocity and the player role shift would only feed this method of growth.

It won't work and I hope it doesn't get in the game it'll really ruin things further.
This is why I mention there should be an incentive to play a flex/tank/healer role so people will more willing and wanting to do so
12/08/2017 09:26 PMPosted by etc3390
How about Blizzard just doesn't allow too many identical mains or one tricks on the same team.

After a certain minimum amount of playtime (~ 3 hours or so), any players who have about +70% of their seasonal playtime on the same hero are deprioritized from queueing together on the same team.

Basically, whatever constraints they could create to prevent multiple people who have vast majority of playtime on same hero from being on same team i.e. 3 Mercy mains or 2 Sym one tricks.

In most cases, a team that has two players who have say 80% of their playtime on Tracer, for example, won't be able to perform to their calculated SR because one of those players won't be able to pick Tracer, instead being forced on a hero they are less skilled with. It'd make more sense to just not immediately match those players on same team.

Note that people who flex or play multiple heroes even within same class won't be affected.

It'd be a nice start to addressing the issue.
Although this fixes the problem of two mains playing on the same team it won't change the fact that you could have a team full of different mains but they're all still dps or not enough tanks/supports
12/08/2017 09:29 PMPosted by Skips
How about Blizzard just doesn't allow too many identical mains or one tricks on the same team...
Although this fixes the problem of two mains playing on the same team it won't change the fact that you could have a team full of different mains but they're all still dps or not enough tanks/supports


True, but it's a start and fixes one of the problems. And it's far less complicated than creating a role queue that everyone agrees on.
I've said this since about season 2. Role queue would not only NOT kill the game, it honestly might save it. Many of the people who make this game impossible to play might quit (one trick/dps only), which makes the game so much more fun for the rest of us. OW is bleeding players so fast because the game is not fun due to people only wanting to DPS in EVERY game. You want a healer? Well, YOU play one then. The conversation that happens in every freaking game and ends with everyone being angry (half the time with no healers), just simply stops happening.

Require 1 healer, 1 tank, 1 healer or tank (so you must have 3 healers/tanks total), 2 dps. You have to queue as your role, and you can not swap once you're in a game. If you Q as a healer, the rest of the heroes are greyed out. Symm is moved to dps where she belongs.

Role queue sets the expectation of what set of heroes the player will play before the game even starts. The 4500 McCree isn't forced to play Mercy or have no healer because no one will swap.

The game is supposed to be a team based shooter, where cooperation is almost as important as skill. There is no cooperation in any game I've been in for like 8 months, and it makes me log sad and angry every night I try to play.
12/08/2017 09:26 PMPosted by etc3390
How about Blizzard just doesn't allow too many identical mains or one tricks on the same team.

After a certain minimum amount of playtime (~ 3 hours or so), any players who have about +70% of their seasonal playtime on the same hero are deprioritized from queueing together on the same team.

Basically, whatever constraints they could create to prevent multiple people who have vast majority of playtime on same hero from being on same team i.e. 3 Mercy mains or 2 Sym one tricks.

In most cases, a team that has two players who have say 80% of their playtime on Tracer, for example, won't be able to perform to their calculated SR because one of those players won't be able to pick Tracer, instead being forced on a hero they are less skilled with. It'd make more sense to just not immediately match those players on same team.

Note that people who flex or play multiple heroes even within same class won't be affected.

It'd be a nice start to addressing the issue.


so your solution to one tricking is to GIVE THEM A QUEUE PRIORITY?? while this MIGHT be ok for mercy and lucio mains I really really don't any increased chance, however small of running into DPS one tricks simply because I choose not to also one trick, in essence this system would ENCOURAGE one tricking
12/08/2017 09:37 PMPosted by JonSnow
12/08/2017 09:26 PMPosted by etc3390
How about Blizzard just doesn't allow too many identical mains or one tricks on the same team.

After a certain minimum amount of playtime (~ 3 hours or so), any players who have about +70% of their seasonal playtime on the same hero are deprioritized from queueing together on the same team.

Basically, whatever constraints they could create to prevent multiple people who have vast majority of playtime on same hero from being on same team i.e. 3 Mercy mains or 2 Sym one tricks.

In most cases, a team that has two players who have say 80% of their playtime on Tracer, for example, won't be able to perform to their calculated SR because one of those players won't be able to pick Tracer, instead being forced on a hero they are less skilled with. It'd make more sense to just not immediately match those players on same team.

Note that people who flex or play multiple heroes even within same class won't be affected.

It'd be a nice start to addressing the issue.


so your solution to one tricking is to GIVE THEM A QUEUE PRIORITY?? while this MIGHT be ok for mercy and lucio mains I really really don't any increased chance, however small of running into DPS one tricks simply because I choose not to also one trick, in essence this system would ENCOURAGE one tricking


I said deprioritize them. This would make queues for one tricks longer, because the system wouldn't immediately put them in games where it's already the same one tricked character in. Unless if the queue time gets too long.

It is true that this sorta secures their one trick character, but with the new performance SR changes and greater priority placed on winning this shouldn't be a huge issue.

I think the tradeoff of not having to worry about 3 Mercy mains on your team is fair.
Role selection would save competitive mode if implemented correctly.

Group que players should be in their own bracket and never have this system effect them.

Solo players get their own bracket and it WILL affect them
12/08/2017 09:26 PMPosted by Skips
This is why I mention there should be an incentive to play a flex/tank/healer role so people will more willing and wanting to do so


That's called bribing and is generally looked down upon.

So you give people incentive. I can tell you what's going to happen there...HoTS.

Let me explain:

When HOTS allowed you to play to get Oni Genji and Officer D.Va, the people that played it didn't care if they won or loss. It was just the number of games to do so. I was even among that crowd. I don't like HoTS, but I do like free skins. I played to get the skins, nothing more.

It would happen in OW too. People would just play to get the rewards.

"Well, the incentive would be based upon a win or not."

Nice, now you are forcing people to play characters and roles they don't want to. No. I rather have someone that wants to play that role on my team vs someone that is being forced into it. They aren't having fun. I'm not having fun because we're probably losing. And they are probably going to be bad.
12/08/2017 09:41 PMPosted by etc3390
I said deprioritize them. This would make queues for one tricks longer, because the system wouldn't immediately put them in games where it's already the same one tricked character in. Unless if the queue time gets too long.


This is really middle of the road here. I don't get on board with people hating on one tricks. If there was an awesome one trick Genji on my team (and I despise Genji) but he's pwning face because he's mastered every aspect of the character...I'm not going to complain.

But, I do understand where people come from that hate on one tricks. In the end, people should be able to play what they want to play.

You're punishing them for doing so.
12/08/2017 09:51 PMPosted by DrgHybrid
12/08/2017 09:41 PMPosted by etc3390
I said deprioritize them. This would make queues for one tricks longer, because the system wouldn't immediately put them in games where it's already the same one tricked character in. Unless if the queue time gets too long.


This is really middle of the road here. I don't get on board with people hating on one tricks. If there was an awesome one trick Genji on my team (and I despise Genji) but he's pwning face because he's mastered every aspect of the character...I'm not going to complain.

But, I do understand where people come from that hate on one tricks. In the end, people should be able to play what they want to play.

You're punishing them for doing so.


It's actually allowing them to play what they want. Instead of that Genji one trick being on the team with another one trick Genji, which in most cases results in the one that doesn't get to pick Genji performing below their SR by playing someone they aren't accustomed to.

This would be a better experience for both the one tricks and other players, in my opinion.
12/08/2017 09:37 PMPosted by Muaddib
OW is bleeding players so fast


You have no stats or proof of this. Blizzard doesn't release user stats and there isn't any websites that track it. Your opinion =/= fact.

12/08/2017 09:37 PMPosted by Muaddib
Role queue would not only NOT kill the game, it honestly might save it.


It would destroy it. So what? You're left with just people that tank and heal? Wow, so much fun there. Not to mention que times. It's fine for a game like WoW as you can farm and do stuff in your garrison or whatever while you wait. You have nothing else to do within game on OW while you wait. I'm not waiting an hour to play.

And grats, you also just alienate a whole group of players. No company in their right mind are going to let the majority of the players quit because of a reason like that.

12/08/2017 09:37 PMPosted by Muaddib
You have to queue as your role, and you can not swap once you're in a game.


So much for counters. That other team have an awesome Ana? Well, I sure wish I had a high mobility character to get in there and take care of her. Oh wait, I can't...I can't swap character. This will never EVER happen.

12/08/2017 09:37 PMPosted by Muaddib
There is no cooperation in any game I've been in for like 8 months, and it makes me log sad and angry every night I try to play.


Another lie. I had one last week that was full of cooperation. You need to stop exaggerating. Also, if this makes you log sad and angry every night...I would really re-think your life with this game. js
12/08/2017 09:55 PMPosted by etc3390
It's actually allowing them to play what they want. Instead of that Genji one trick being on the team with another one trick Genji, which in most cases results in the one that doesn't get to pick Genji performing below their SR by playing someone they aren't accustomed to.

This would be a better experience for both the one tricks and other players, in my opinion.


No, because of your "deprioritization" method you now have given the one tricks que times. Thus causing them to not want to play the game at all. And just imagine that one tricks make up a good chunk. Maybe the majority play late at night and flexers are few. Now those people that flex have a long wait time too to join matches. No one wants to wait for a game in OW. You can see that enough on the forums where people complain about just a few minutes.

I use to wait OVER AN HOUR on WoW just to join in a simple dungeon. Why? Because I was a Hunter main. Yah, I also had tanks and healers too, but if I needed levels, gear, and prep work on my Hunter for the raid, then that's what I'm going to play.
if a non 2-2-2 role que is implemented, only so many things can happen.

if its preferred, the game try's to make 2-2-2 (because what else would it try to do), but cant because to many dps preferred, and it boils down to what we have now.

1-1-1 with 3 flex (this has been suggested).
day one all flex go dps for super fast que. basically what we have now.
day 2, tanks and healers start only queing flex, everyone waits in que forever.
day 3, everyone is pissed.

2-2-2, but you can choose outside of the role you have selected.
if playing outside of the role is not reportable leading to a ban, everyone just ques whatever, we get what we have now.
if it is reportable leading to a ban, why not just have a 2-2-2 que.

pro's of 2-2-2 que:
separate SR for each role, dont mess up your 4000SR dps rating when you want to try tank.
encourages people at all ranks to learn to tank or heal.
more flex players will que tank and healer, because they know they will never have to solo tank, or solo heal.
encourages blizzard to release dynamic heroes in every role because hey, we are locked in.
standard que can still exist, its not like its going to get worse.
quickplay and arcade, 70% of the player base not playing comp, still exist for you to get quick matches in if you are a stubborn dps that cant wait 5 minutes for a match.

lets face it, this game is almost entirely played 2-2-2, the people who want to group up and try triple tank, or 3-1-2, could still do so in standard que or in pugs.
12/08/2017 10:01 PMPosted by DrgHybrid

No, because of your "deprioritization" method you now have given the one tricks que times. Thus causing them to not want to play the game at all. And just imagine that one tricks make up a good chunk. Maybe the majority play late at night and flexers are few. Now those people that flex have a long wait time too to join matches. No one wants to wait for a game in OW. You can see that enough on the forums where people complain about just a few minutes.


I said unless the queue times get too long. Meaning after a certain max queue time it'll stop deprioritizing them. If you are a Genji main, like literally you play 90% of your games as Genji, would you be more concerned about waiting an extra couple minutes so you have a much better chance of playing him, or playing a whole 10 minute game as someone else cuz the other Genji one trick took him?

And as a flex or more versatile player, what do you do when you get multiple people that all can only play the same hero?

And as I said previously this would only apply to people who have a vast majority of their play time on one hero, so queue times shouldn't even be largely impacted.

The root of the problem is accurate team SR calculations. Two or more one tricks of the same hero causes the system to misrepresent SR in most cases which puts that team at a disadvantage.

edited for clarification

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