Junkrat....

General Discussion
Thanks, all, for your responses.
11/21/2017 10:48 PMPosted by SaintAriel
Guess what i play junkrat with fear what fear?, I don't use my mines much just because I'm afraid of the people there to come here and post a nerf thread like you.

This really isn't the impression I want to make. =/ I'm not a person who dies to Junkrat once and goes and cries to the forums. This has taken quite awhile and a large amount of matches to motivate me into even posting anything.

Upon reading everything, I'm starting to just accept this is how the game is, even though I think it's a bit unfair. But I guess it's impossible to balance rank-by-rank.

Looking forward to seeing more thoughts on this, though. And actually, a sort-of-random question: Do you think you, as a Junkrat player, are far more effective in solo queue against uncoordinated teams as opposed to 4 - 6 stacks?'

Just curious. I wonder if Junkrat's main advantage is he just exploits weakness in team coordination (similar to Symmetra), or if it's something else.

Edit:
11/21/2017 11:11 PMPosted by BT160526
50% damage nerf, that's a little outlandish. He's had the same damage since the beta.

I never suggested that. Said I'd shoot that idea down if it presented itself.
Don't worry op you're not alone and that was a well thought out and written post and anyone who downvotes it is a noob that doesn't know how to react to people observations with out a thumbs down button.

I can deal with junkrat my self pretty well on most heroes, however this game isn't 1v1 and everything any junkrat support will tell you is complete bogus that defies game logic.

I completely agree that pre plat a lot of games are decided by who has the better junkrat, I often feel if my team doesn't have a junkrat and they have a junkrat who isn't a cuccumber really does make the other team feel like they have an advantage.

I also agree his impact is too high.
Whilst I think good flanking should be rewarded I don't think getting behind the other team and lobbing a bomb and a mine into a group should result in a multi kill with in 0.5 seconds, the only other hero I can think of that can get close to that kind of kill power would be a mccree or hanzo landing head shot after head shot which is a lot more difficult

I believe junkrat mains are neglecting how powerful their buff truely was and how many things rat is good at now. 2 mines and an ulti buff after getting all self damage removed is more than likely the most buffed any hero has ever gotten with out being reverted.

If these junkrat mains honestly think people aren't going to get sick of a riptire what seems like every minute, getting killed by mines more than any other ability in the game, getting double mined which is pretty common as well as all the other annoying ways he can kill you.

You'll get more downvotes op, you'll get people that will say "pharah" like she's got vermin seeking rockets, they'll say mccree like he isn't held as one of the most aim dependant heroes in the game, they'll tell you to not get close like you have that option all game, they'll tell you not to stand in a choke like they expect you to just camp that stop all game and win, they'll tell you to dodge his bombs like we can play in 3rd people and everyone is just standing around watching and they'll make it sound like everyone is just stupid that dies to junkrat like the user has no control over how well junkrat plays.

You can't reason with these people but you can try and hopefully other more objective people will notice and not people that think the game is balanced in quick match and you can just swap to what ever you want to counter what's annoying you

You'll also get told you don't know how to counter him almost 3 months after his buff

I also dream of a viable junkrat that isn't over bearing and I don't want to see him nerfed to death. I'd like fall off damage on the mine, so if I'm going to take max damage from the thing I want it to be at least close to me
Did write that on my phone so my English looks like my 4th langauge looool
Jesus christ theres a lot of people who cant read responding to this... I actually read the OP's points, and nowhere did he even criticize Junk. Why dont yall learn to be a little less sensitive?

Anyway, the OP does bring up some perfectly valid worries, Junkrat can seem to be a force of nature, especially at the lower ranks. My view is that the problem isnt Junkrat, the problem is the response to him. Pharah has a similar issue, allow me to elaborate.

Junkrat and Pharah both play very similarly. Theyre capable of doing massive amounts of damage and have high, non-traditional mobility, but at the same time theyre both pretty easy to counter (hitscans in Pharahs case, high mobility in Junkrats case). The thing that boosts the impact of both heros is playstyle of the opposition. Pharah seems unbeatable at lower ranks because shes raining down splash damage from a direction that doesnt exist in most other FPS games in general, and countering her requires aiming better than she can, faster than she can, and the most effective way to take her out of the sky is to coordinate well with your team.

Junkrat has a very similar problem. The reason that he seems unbeatable at lower playstyles is the way people play. Junks entire kit is very 'spam damage' friendly, he does require aim, and a lot more than you think, but hes also capable of firing in the general direction of a choke point and getting a kill. That in and of itself IS NOT the problem, the problem is the "poke at the choke" playstyle that seems to be a mid-gold and below phenomenon. Nobody wants to push through, so everybody lines up single file to be murdered, or tries to form a slow-moving deathball thats just waiting for a mine to be launched into. Junks not overpowered, people just tend to create situations where his power is best used.

In the vein of "junks not OP", id say that the only thing i would really change is his ult charge. Personally, i dont see how it charges that much faster than Barrage, which i consider to be pretty comparable, but i can see how that complaint is there. Really though, Junks not hard to counter, anybody who can keep him at range can do it. Soldier, Widow and Hanzo are all good, Pharah is the hands down best for it. Fast-moving flankers that can dodge his projectiles also work well, in the right hands, Tracer can dance circles around him and Genji is absolute hell to kill. Ive lost count of the amount of times ive died to my own mine being deflected.

Really though, the best counter for him is awareness. Junkrat is the most powerful in small areas, close range with few escape routes. Chokepoints, hallways and small buildings hes king. On the flip side, hes useless in wide open areas. Chose your fights
11/21/2017 10:11 PMPosted by Crepsly
My point was he has a huge impact on the game as a whole. This is not about 1v1s. (And as I said, I played a wide range of characters tonight. The games were still determined by which team had the better Junkrat.)


No. I'm a tracer main and I disagree wholeheartedly. Junkrat has gone from being a 'meh' pick to a 'balanced' pick. His 'impact' on the game is around about the same as a genji or tracer.

He now has a mine for offence and defence at the same time. His riptire can actually reach intended targets now.

If a match was determined by who had the better junkrat then you're just utterly failing to adjust your team to counter him and you should be punished for doing so.
So what do you actually want out of junk other than less impact? I dont see him as a must pick at all, but he's picked becasue he's fun/has a fun kit to play with.
Junkrat can seem to be a force of nature, especially at the lower ranks. My view is that the problem isnt Junkrat, the problem is the response to him.[...]

Thanks for your post, and you actually do bring up a good point. Specifically this:
11/22/2017 01:06 AMPosted by epicfail48
the problem is the "poke at the choke" playstyle that seems to be a mid-gold and below phenomenon. Nobody wants to push through, so everybody lines up single file to be murdered, or tries to form a slow-moving deathball thats just waiting for a mine to be launched into.

This IS so much of an issue in and of itself. I can't stress how passive teams are down here sometimes.... >.< So I can definitely agree this is a huge factor that leads to Junkrat's power.

But even then, Junkrat is also anti-dive. So if you do have a "good" deathball push, you're still going to get denied by him most of the time. I think someone else in this thread said it best. Something along the lines of: "He's too good at too many things right now." At least it can seem that way.

After thinking on it a bit, I think another factor that makes him frustrating is that his counters generally have to possess quite a bit more skill in order to effectively counter him. Ie: It's much easier for Junkrat to get a multi-kill than it is for that Widow or McCree to land a headshot on him. It could be argued that Pharah's on equal footing, I suppose, and thus is why she should be the most common counter picked down here, but ... well, even Pharah has to play at a slightly higher skill level than Junkrat in order to effectively deal with him. (Usually!)

Again, this is all from personal experience / observation. I could be wrong, but it certainly seems this way.

11/22/2017 01:12 AMPosted by Ninetales
His 'impact' on the game is around about the same as a genji or tracer.

In the higher ranks, probably, yes. But I'm speaking about the low-mid ranks specifically here. It's two totally different ballgames.

11/22/2017 01:12 AMPosted by Ninetales
If a match was determined by who had the better junkrat then you're just utterly failing to adjust your team to counter him and you should be punished for doing so.

But that really is what happens. Over the last few days, I seriously (not exaggerating at all here) don't think I've been in a match without a Junkrat. And if no one on the opposite team can play a better-than-average-for-this-tier Pharah or has an equally-skilled Junkrat of their own, then the games really do become one sided.

11/22/2017 02:00 AMPosted by Swaka
So what do you actually want out of junk other than less impact? I dont see him as a must pick at all, but he's picked becasue he's fun/has a fun kit to play with.

I don't know what I "want" for him, exactly. I'm half-terrified to suggest anything, because I'm not a dev and have zero game design experience. I just hope that they can figure out something to bring him down a notch without destroying the character. And as much as I would love for some type of changes, I do want the character to retain his crazy playstyle and fun factor above all else, because I DO think the game needs that. (And knowing the usual knee-jerk reactions, I actually do worry that any nerf would be too much of a nerf. >.< It's a tricky situation.)
You guys suck. Get good
I have really no standing to make a reply about this. I freely admit that I am by no means a "pro" player. I just started in late September. Didn't do my placements until the current season in which I placed bronze, so you know, that's where I am coming from. But I will say that I just hate Junkrat. I HATE him. More than any other hero, I hate dying to him. I find him annoying and stupid. I would rather die over and over to any other hero in the game. I play a lot of Bastion and Orisa, so I am used to getting hassled by Tracers and Genjis, but they are still NOWHERE NEAR as obnoxious as Junkrat. When I am playing healers, which I do most often now, I obviously get picked on by just about every hero, but none of them make me infuriated and frustrated the way Junkrat does. I just hate him.
11/21/2017 10:03 PMPosted by Crepsly
So this is not "lolTraceMain" bias. This is legitimate observation from a general standpoint. Junkrat has far too much impact.

I don't know exactly "what" is so insane about this character (aside from his ulti charge), but he is literally the reason for a vast majority of my games being one-sided. Pre-Plat QP has become a battle of "Who has the better Junkrat?" And that just seems like terrible game design.


You say this and then offer zero even anecdotal support for your argument.

No description of how he's responsible for one-sided games.

No description of why.

No explanation of what you tried to do to counter.

No reasoning behind how it didn't work.

The only thing you've got is some finger-pointing to who you think the problem is, and an attempt at an argument from authority where you state that you are right and then offer zero support for your argument.
If you let a junkrat go unchecked (letting him flank behind the whole team) you will be punished for it. if your whole team tries to play around him you will be punished for it. he is a threat to be taken seriously if not you will be punished for it. Just like an unchecked phara will win a game in 3 minutes. you can't ignore him and expect him to go away, you cannot play around a junkrat like a junkrat can play around you, especially as tracer, a good junkrat knows a decent tracer can !@#$ all over them if they don't address that threat, if they don't tracer will blink behind you and blink the other way the second you try to turn around, the biggest mistake people make with junkrat is underestimating him, thinking he has no skill cause junkrat, and not treating him as a serious threat. if you do that you will loose the game, just like if you play around phara an let her fly around shooting rockets unchecked you're gonna loose.
Man, first I got hate for playing Junkrat, the trash-tier Torb-like waste-of-a-slot hero.
Now I get hate for playing Junkrat the OPAF FOTM noob no-aim scrub player's crutch of choice.

Can't win. :/

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