[Feedback Thread] Mercy Updates - Nov 16, 2017

General Discussion
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12/18/2017 04:38 PMPosted by Qwazi
Well, there are good nerfs that are necessary for balancing, and there are bad nerfs that attempt to balance things but end up killing the enjoyment of playing a hero. Nerfing Mercy's mobility is such a nerf, and is something you were suggesting in your nerf. Mercy is all about her mobility (though her iconic nature is all about the rez). The enjoyment of playing Mercy is about her mobility and using your situational awareness to anticipate enemy movements and placing yourself where you need to be ahead of time in order to provide heals when necessary.


Mercy needs mobility nerfs during valk, her mobility during valk is currently uncontested, she wasn't supposed to be like that, don't come up with that lol

12/18/2017 04:38 PMPosted by Qwazi
I would kindly ask you to get some more experience before commenting, or refrain from making bad suggestions...


I Think I'm experienced enough as a flex player that has been GM for a while playing a ton of heroes.

My suggestions are anything but bad, my suggestions are what the game needs, mercy nerfs.

And no, I'm not gonna refrain from posting just because I'm not a mercy main crying :)
12/18/2017 04:50 PMPosted by Pulse
That's barely a nerf, and her E is not that much of a problem right now because you can actually counter it

What you can't counter is Valkyrie, that's the main problem of mercy, they did a good job nerfing E and allowing for counterplay and it still being powerful

She needs nerfs to mobility, regeneration, and ult duration, none of that is gonna make her more enjoyable to play, it's how things work.

Genji got ult duration nerf, mobility nerf ( edge dash and triple jump ) and it made him less enjoyable to play, but it had to be done, same with mercy.
That suggestion is old, and the numbers aren't really significant anymore. The point was that satisfaction for both sides was possible, had they decided take that route. But they didn't, so now our best choices are to either revert or rework again.

And a 7 second cooldown increase on average is pretty big.
12/18/2017 04:50 PMPosted by Pulse
She was not "OP" but she was extremely frustrating to play against and still strong, specially in 2CP she was pretty much a must pick, people just used to hide in the spawndoor and wait for ress, pretty dumb and that mechanic had to be changed
More of a map design issue than a problem with Mercy herself.

Also, Mercy had been in that state for months before even the first complaints began. Mercy did not change to become an issue; the community did, and decided she was an issue when she wasn't.

The rework also hasn't solved the issue of her being unfun, either. It just made the hate mutually shared by both sides.
12/18/2017 04:52 PMPosted by Avengar
Not sure of how to fix Mercy but one thing is plain and clear: OWL is not going to be enjoyable to watch with every team running a Mercy and just rezzing constantly.

I would legit love to just see a blanket ban of Mercy for all OWL games. Would make it much more enjoyable to watch!


This is my biggest worry and also the upcoming season 8

I somewhat hoped for a gentlemen's agreement to not play mercy in the worldcup, I hope they nerf her before it starts

20$ million dollars buy in to have best mechanical players in the world holding left click and making teamfights a mess, god.
That suggestion is old, and the numbers aren't really significant anymore. The point was that satisfaction for both sides was possible, had they decided take that route. But they didn't, so now our best choices are to either revert or rework again.

And a 7 second cooldown increase on average is pretty big.


The thing is, mercy's problem is valkyrie as of right now, that suggestion is useless at the moment

They'll probably just nerf mercy, reworking her again is gonna be complicated.

12/18/2017 05:02 PMPosted by Titanium
Also, Mercy had been in that state for months before even the first complaints began. Mercy did not change to become an issue; the community did, and decided she was an issue when she wasn't.

The rework also hasn't solved the issue of her being unfun, either. It just made the hate mutually shared by both sides.


She got into that state after they gave her&the team invulnerability after ress, before that, she wasn't much of a problem and was somewhat balanced

If you found mercy unfun and still find her unfun now, why don't you try other heroes? real suggestion, there's 25 other heroes, i'm not even talking about balance or whatever, but if you find a hero unfun, why do you keep playing it? lol
12/18/2017 05:09 PMPosted by Pulse
If you found mercy unfun and still find her unfun now, why don't you try other heroes? real suggestion, there's 25 other heroes, i'm not even talking about balance or whatever, but if you find a hero unfun, why do you keep playing it? lol
I'm guessing you looked at my competitive stats and assumed I was still active?

That data is from season 6.
Here is my Overbuff profile: https://www.overbuff.com/players/pc/Titanium-1686
Click on "trends". You might notice the latest point of data was from October 21st.
Draw your own conclusions. If that isn't enough evidence, here's a thread for you to read on the subject: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759329812#post-1
12/18/2017 04:55 PMPosted by Pulse
12/18/2017 04:38 PMPosted by Qwazi
Well, there are good nerfs that are necessary for balancing, and there are bad nerfs that attempt to balance things but end up killing the enjoyment of playing a hero. Nerfing Mercy's mobility is such a nerf, and is something you were suggesting in your nerf. Mercy is all about her mobility (though her iconic nature is all about the rez). The enjoyment of playing Mercy is about her mobility and using your situational awareness to anticipate enemy movements and placing yourself where you need to be ahead of time in order to provide heals when necessary.


Mercy needs mobility nerfs during valk, her mobility during valk is currently uncontested, she wasn't supposed to be like that, don't come up with that lol

12/18/2017 04:38 PMPosted by Qwazi
I would kindly ask you to get some more experience before commenting, or refrain from making bad suggestions...


I Think I'm experienced enough as a flex player that has been GM for a while playing a ton of heroes.

My suggestions are anything but bad, my suggestions are what the game needs, mercy nerfs.

And no, I'm not gonna refrain from posting just because I'm not a mercy main crying :)


Sadly, none nerf has solved anything and none will solve anything. All what these nerfs has done has been destroying Mercy's fun and turn her into the most hated character of the game and the least enjoyable, when before the rework she was the most popular and one of the most enjoyables. She doesn't need more pointless nerfs. Playing Mercy is a boring and obnoxious experience, as this design has only encouraged toxicity towards all her players (wtf is that stupidity about we all here being one tricks? Who is the loony who invented that?). In fact, even the pros like EeveeA says that this current Mercy is boring, unfun and unrewarding to play (which doesn't mean that she is more or less powerful).

Accusing Mercy players who enjoyed old Mercy of being one tricks and of exploit her SR system is insanity and really really stupid. I was a flex player, and I never hid because surprise, I don't like to let my teammates to die, I prefer keep them alive and use my ult only when really needed, the most of the times for a 2-3 tempo rez. Incredibly weird, isn't it? Well, welcome to Mercy 1.0, that was how she was played. Hid and 5 man rez was extremely uncommon, and if it became so popular it was thanks to toxic players like Seagull. I really want old Mercy back because I feel insulted each time someone tell me that lie. I feel punished for things that I never did, and I'm not the only one here with that problem. Others left the game. So thanks for your insults, keep being so toxic, you will make Overwatch great.

Old Mercy was fair for almost everybody, not only Mercy players. If she was bad for someone, she was for the incredibly awful players who never cared of kill her before her rez. Also, the strategy of spaming every single for obliterate the enemy team shows how bad that players were. If you wasted so much ults and didn't bother in kill Mercy, then you deserved that embarrasing punishment, and it was fair and glorious. Ok, hid and rez could be a problem, but there were a lot of tweaks which could have destroyed that strategy without involving an entire rework.

Finally, although we talk about revert Mercy, we could play with a mix between 1.0 and 2.0, and probably we would find that acceptable at least (personally I would like it with some conditions). However, there are some points that cannot be avoided:
1- Resurrect is Mercy's core and identity, so it must keep being part of her kit.
2- She needs to be fun, impactful and rewarding again.
3- She needs to have a lot of decision taking again.
4- She needs to be balanced.
5- She mustn't encourage toxicity towards herself.

All these points existed before the rework, now none of them exist. Valkirie has not decision taking at all, and current rez is so suicidal that usually doesn't worth the try. She is not balanced nor rewarding nor fun to play as, with or against. Also, now if you dare to pick Mercy you will gain all your teammates's hate just because you play Mercy. We don't want to be hated and harrassed only for trying to enjoy the game. It seems that a lot of people can't understand the fact that we are human beings and we play for fun like everyone else. So, if we can't enjoy the game and we are the main target for all the game's toxicity, we don't want this dreadful design. We want another one, healthier for the game and for ourselves.

Considering that Valkirie is like an overpowered eternal E ability and current Resurrect is like a diluted but suicidal and annoying to play af ult, there are some changes that seems too obvious. First, bring back old rez and if needed tweak it for removing the chance of hid and rez. How? We suggested plenty of possibilities for that, like LoS, little cast time, a decay system like Zarya's with a high cap (80%?) and so many others. Second, turn Valkirie into Mercy's new brand E ability. Just tone it down until it fit in that place. Finally, keep the GA changes, as it is the only thing that has been successful of this current version. And that's it. All problems fixed, no more toxicity for single rezzes, no more mandatory Mercy, no more hid and rez and no more unfun to play.

P.S.: Nerfs are easy to make, and Blizzard is taking a very long time now, so it's very possible that we would see more than another simple, lame and pointless nerf. There are a lot of voices calling for a huge change (the vast majority of Mercy players), as this design is bugged af and unhealthy for the game, and specially for the Mercy players.
12/18/2017 05:09 PMPosted by Pulse
She got into that state after they gave her&the team invulnerability after ress, before that, she wasn't much of a problem and was somewhat balanced


as far as i know, it's because of mercy is the only non invulnerable target at that time, which always resulting in mercy dies while rezzing leaving allies unsupported after rez.

"somewhat balanced" is different from "i dont really remember her because at that time nobody played her because other support is more reliable."
I had an interesting idea for a change to Mercy's damage boost. At the moment, every other healer can provide some source of reliable damage, so I was thinking:

What if Mercy's damage boost gave off small electric shocks from the beam to nearby enemies? It doesn't need to be an insane ammount of damage, maybe 35 DPS, and the range doesn't need to be insane, but it would create more interesting gameplay as you could use your Damage boost like an electric rope, encouraging you to do more than just heal most of the time.

And then we she ults, the chain beam effect that Valkyrie gives would turn her damage boost into a electric field.

I don't know, I just found the idea interesting.
A dude asking about one-tricking Hanzo got a big lengthy post on his thread. Will there be one here?
12/18/2017 07:11 PMPosted by WhateverAlex
A dude asking about one-tricking Hanzo got a big lengthy post on his thread. Will there be one here?


I dunno bruh do you play Hanzo?
Why did they make Mercy so much more team-dependent than she already was?
Why is this ult so long?

Why did you ever think giving her a 30 second cooldown rez was a good idea, and a second one to boot when using her super long ult? You basically forced tempo-rezz on her, little reason to force her to rezz

Why did you make her healing chain with such a good distance? It's basically a mini-Zen ult plus rezz that lasts 3.3 times as long, with option of group damage boost. Really hard it seems even in diamond to try and counter it.

Why did you think giving her such a long lasting ult while keeping her ult charge the fastest for a healer to get was a good idea? She has ult for nearly ever fight.
12/18/2017 05:48 PMPosted by Lithy
All these points existed before the rework, now none of them exist. Valkirie has not decision taking at all, and current rez is so suicidal that usually doesn't worth the try. She is not balanced nor rewarding nor fun to play as, with or against. Also, now if you dare to pick Mercy you will gain all your teammates's hate just because you play Mercy. We don't want to be hated and harrassed only for trying to enjoy the game. It seems that a lot of people can't understand the fact that we are human beings and we play for fun like everyone else. So, if we can't enjoy the game and we are the main target for all the game's toxicity, we don't want this dreadful design. We want another one, healthier for the game and for ourselves.

Really? You get toxicity for picking Mercy? I get toxicity for not picking Mercy.
12/18/2017 04:52 PMPosted by Avengar
Not sure of how to fix Mercy but one thing is plain and clear: OWL is not going to be enjoyable to watch with every team running a Mercy and just rezzing constantly.

I would legit love to just see a blanket ban of Mercy for all OWL games. Would make it much more enjoyable to watch!


I Agree. just do the Mercy ban on OWL and leave us casual players out of your competitive desires. just revert mercy and let the live version fun to play, i don't care about any league whatsoever.
12/18/2017 06:42 PMPosted by SirRocknRyan
I had an interesting idea for a change to Mercy's damage boost. At the moment, every other healer can provide some source of reliable damage, so I was thinking:

What if Mercy's damage boost gave off small electric shocks from the beam to nearby enemies?

I have an idea for Damage Boost, too. What if it provided a small (10-15%) movement speed buff to Mercy and her target? Mercy could kite certain enemies with this, and speed up allies so they don't get kited.

I really want damage boost to have some kind of extra function, that makes it worth using other than "that thing you use when you don't have any healing to do."
lmao i was following another thread (this one, specifically: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20760706531?page=2 )

the moderator note on that last post is complete and utter bull!@#$, have a look for yourself!

Forum Moderator Note: Since this thread's turned into a feedback thread rather than a request for an update, I'm afraid that we have to lock it so that the feedback can be collected in the megathread. I encourage to continue sharing your feedback on the current state of Mercy in this topic. This is in an effort to consolidate feedback for our team.

Thank you!
12/18/2017 10:10 PMPosted by BlueFountain
Why is this ult so long?

Why did you ever think giving her a 30 second cooldown rez was a good idea, and a second one to boot when using her super long ult? You basically forced tempo-rezz on her, little reason to force her to rezz

Why did you make her healing chain with such a good distance? It's basically a mini-Zen ult plus rezz that lasts 3.3 times as long, with option of group damage boost. Really hard it seems even in diamond to try and counter it.

Why did you think giving her such a long lasting ult while keeping her ult charge the fastest for a healer to get was a good idea? She has ult for nearly ever fight.


First of all, Valkyrie is poor ult. It doesn't heal faster, damage boost more, or provide other kind of improved support for the team. It does provide increased survivability for Mercy, but that's rather selfish for support ultimate.

Having it last 20 seconds helps to negate it's lack of power to some degree, since it lasts longer than most ults used to counter.
12/18/2017 11:55 PMPosted by GenjisWife
lmao i was following another thread (this one, specifically: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20760706531?page=2 )

the moderator note on that last post is complete and utter bull!@#$, have a look for yourself!

[quote]Forum Moderator Note: Since this thread's turned into a feedback thread rather than a request for an update, I'm afraid that we have to lock it so that the feedback can be collected in the megathread. I encourage to continue sharing your feedback on the current state of Mercy in this topic. This is in an effort to consolidate feedback for our team.

Thank you!


I think it's funny that the moderators aren't actually posting on the threads anymore, now they just edit it into the last person's post. At this point just mention Mercy in a thread and it will get locked and sent to this secluded area that the developers will swiftly ignore.
Man, I hate all these people talking about OWL or Overwatch E-sports, especially with the broken state the game is in now. Either kill casual Overwatch or E-sports, 'cause you can't have both until the game's fixed, which takes ages, because OWL and E-sports take resources that Blizzard should spend on improving the game.

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