S8 Changes - Why just Diamond and above?!?!

Competitive Discussion
12/10/2017 01:06 AMPosted by Hauven
12/09/2017 06:03 PMPosted by Shelyo
Mercy had SR gain problems, because the res stats were compared for a while with her op state before. Also, bad Mercy SR gain is usually to a lack of damage boosting.

It's easier to climb with a performance based system than with win/loss btw.


12/09/2017 02:48 PMPosted by Hauven
Now let me explain why performance based SR is bad, much worse.

  • Encourages one tricking in an attempt to stat pad/chase to climb faster
  • Discourages teamwork
  • Tanks generally get a little bit less SR in comparison to DPS heroes
  • Supports generally get less SR in comparison to DPS heroes (with maybe the exception of Ana, Moira or Zen depending how you play them)
  • Encourages people to play DPS heroes because of the above, regardless of if and how they may be helping their team or not
  • Is far quicker to de-rank deliberately in order to stomp matches in a much lower tier a person doesn't belong in
  • Is far quicker to get boosted into a higher tier, and by boosted I mean 'illegally'
  • Encourages toxicity because of the above frustrations

People usually onetrick, because they specialised on a hero and love to play them. They don't onetrick for the stats. Stats padder were another problem, but they were not that common.

There will not be more teamwork with a win/loss system, since only win matters now and people will get more toxic/nervous about it because of that. With a performance based system you could at least sometimes still give your best and minimise the lost while now you would just give up, since it won't matter.

Tanks don't get less SR if played well. Same goes for supports. This are just myths. The performance based system works the same for them as it does for dps heroes. The only difference is that a dps can carry easier than a tank and a healer, so if you're really above the average of your elo, you can win more games as a dps and climb therefore faster.

How can you get boosted quicker if it's performance based? Or do you mean by account-sharing? The report system has to be improved to deal with those people faster, derankers and booster would be also a problem with a win/loss based system. In fact, smurfs could just stay forever on an elo they don't belong to with the w/l system and stomp people, then lose one, then stomp...
12/10/2017 01:06 AMPosted by Hauven
12/09/2017 06:03 PMPosted by Shelyo
Mercy had SR gain problems, because the res stats were compared for a while with her op state before. Also, bad Mercy SR gain is usually to a lack of damage boosting.

It's easier to climb with a performance based system than with win/loss btw.


12/09/2017 02:48 PMPosted by Hauven
Now let me explain why performance based SR is bad, much worse.

  • Encourages one tricking in an attempt to stat pad/chase to climb faster
  • Discourages teamwork
  • Tanks generally get a little bit less SR in comparison to DPS heroes
  • Supports generally get less SR in comparison to DPS heroes (with maybe the exception of Ana, Moira or Zen depending how you play them)
  • Encourages people to play DPS heroes because of the above, regardless of if and how they may be helping their team or not
  • Is far quicker to de-rank deliberately in order to stomp matches in a much lower tier a person doesn't belong in
  • Is far quicker to get boosted into a higher tier, and by boosted I mean 'illegally'
  • Encourages toxicity because of the above frustrations


Exactly, they do not want people to get out of ELO hell :P
They want to create DPS watch XD
Perf-based SR should be removed in grandmasters only. Removing personal performance SR below that is a terrible idea in a team game filled by complete randoms who can throw for no reason. Performance SR helps u stay at your rank no matter what, that is why it is fine and should stay even in diamond and master.

Also, saying that supports gain less SR than dps is a lie. If that is the case, then you probably dont play support as well as u should be at this rank.

This also sucks due to the insane amount of smurfs and boosted bonobos. Without the performance based SR smurfs will stay at lower ranks longer (I hope u realise why that sucks, mhm?) and boosted bonobos will drop down from higher ranks for much longer time as well. Which also sucks for everyone.

This is completely fine to gain less SR for a win if u objectively didnt contribute much. I'm fine with that. It is not fair to get the same SR as everyone else in a game I was literally carried by the team.
12/09/2017 07:52 PMPosted by Faking
It's going to be fun in platinum next season. All the one tricks with low win rates are going to drop into platinum.


You are assuming that one tricks will keep one tricking if they start consistingly dropping in rank.

Let’s say a one trick sombra with 45% win ratio around 3700 Sr starts falling into mid Diamond. Do you really think that player is just gonna keep playing sombra? If he has nothing to gain from one tricking sombra anymore he will stop /ecause the only he was playing sombra in the first place was to manipulate the Sr system. Once it no longer works, he off to playing different hero.

Please think before you post.
12/10/2017 07:37 AMPosted by Boomka
Perf-based SR should be removed in grandmasters only. Removing personal performance SR below that is a terrible idea in a team game filled by complete randoms who can throw for no reason. Performance SR helps u stay at your rank no matter what, that is why it is fine and should stay even in diamond and master.

Also, saying that supports gain less SR than dps is a lie. If that is the case, then you probably dont play support as well as u should be at this rank.

This also sucks due to the insane amount of smurfs and boosted bonobos. Without the performance based SR smurfs will stay at lower ranks longer (I hope u realise why that sucks, mhm?) and boosted bonobos will drop down from higher ranks for much longer time as well. Which also sucks for everyone.

This is completely fine to gain less SR for a win if u objectively didnt contribute much. I'm fine with that. It is not fair to get the same SR as everyone else in a game I was literally carried by the team.


The problem i see is that performance and teamplay are 2 completely different things. A RoadHog on the point will surely have much lower stats, but will prevent the enemy from caping. but a flanking-Soloing one will get more damage and kills output.....
12/09/2017 05:58 PMPosted by Kaawumba
See

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759379305

and

03/02/2017 07:35 PMPosted by Scott Mercer
We're always trying to put you in fair matches that we think you have a 50% chance to win, and do it quickly so you're playing Overwatch instead of staring at a queue timer. We never intentionally seek to put you in an unfair one.

I've seen comments like "I just won three games in a row, so the matchmaker put me in a bad stomp to get back to a 50% win rate". It doesn't do anything like that at all. It just keeps on trying to find fair matches. If you do win more than you lose, your SR will slowly go up. As that happens it'll also put you up stronger opponents that match your new SR. That's not so you lose, it's to keep your matches fair.

There's one other thing to remember, though. The results of a match that the matchmaker thought was perfectly fair don't always result in a match that is hard fought every meter of the payload and you win by just holding them off from reaching the final checkpoint at 0:00 time remaining. Matches with teams of equal skill result in 3-0 stomps more than you think. Maybe an early fight snowballed out of control due to staggered spawns, maybe a player decided he was going to try to pickup a new hero that match, or perhaps your's cat decided to play with your keyboard right before you used that Graviton Surge and it wildly missed its mark. We're all human, and we don't perform at the perfectly same level all the time. It's one of the reasons competitive games are so much fun to play and watch.


Don't you get tired of posting the same link and quote over and over?
12/10/2017 08:04 AMPosted by gGoblin
The problem i see is that performance and teamplay are 2 completely different things. A RoadHog on the point will surely have much lower stats, but will prevent the enemy from caping. but a flanking-Soloing one will get more damage and kills output.....

Well, you still have to play as a team to get "good stats" and you still have to win to get anything.

I personally do not understand how this performance SR abolishment is gonna fix the competitive issues. Why would someone instantly start playing as a team? Everyone is gonna continue to goof around trying to win somehow. But the performance SR is a major advantage to the system. Smurfs and boosted guys should not stay at wrong ranks for long, and the performance SR helps with that.
People flex and switch even today and the performance SR doesnt stop them from climbing or staying at their rank. Everyone rightfully sits at their rank.

The insane amount of throwers, boosters, boosted ones, trolls and griefers is the reason why i think removal of performance SR is a terrible idea. Dont even get me started talking about the overall random experience the current competitive provides. Performance SR must stay.
12/09/2017 02:48 PMPosted by Hauven
Now let me explain why performance based SR is bad, much worse.

  • Encourages one tricking in an attempt to stat pad/chase to climb faster
  • Discourages teamwork
  • Tanks generally get a little bit less SR in comparison to DPS heroes
  • Supports generally get less SR in comparison to DPS heroes (with maybe the exception of Ana, Moira or Zen depending how you play them)
  • Encourages people to play DPS heroes because of the above, regardless of if and how they may be helping their team or not
  • Is far quicker to de-rank deliberately in order to stomp matches in a much lower tier a person doesn't belong in
  • Is far quicker to get boosted into a higher tier, and by boosted I mean 'illegally'
  • Encourages toxicity because of the above frustrations


As a gold support main this, this nails it. If i have to ignore my teammates and play a offmeta DPS to get to a point that teams work together. I will do it or quit if I dont make it because the current meta is hell. This change will only make it worse because everyone like me will be one tricking trying to get to diamond.
so the rest can suffer even more as all the egoistic bad players will drop to our rank
I don't know bro, hate to break it to you, but maybe just get good? I don't know or you know maybe it is smurf purposes. If this was every rank, smurfs would be more of an issue.
They're only changing SR that is gained/lost after a match.

The actual matchmaking algorithm isn't being changed according to what they've said. So hidden MMR is still a thing. At least now people might be able to "fight against" their ranking algorithm, but they shouldn't need to fight against it to begin with.
OP you've yet to Link your main account. Based on your stats you got placed much higher than your main account because you got lucky and are now dropping back down.

LINK YOUR MAIN ACCOUNT.
12/10/2017 08:12 AMPosted by ǓĿŦŖǺ
Don't you get tired of posting the same link and quote over and over?


Not really. Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V is pretty fast. Writing a custom response on why each particular conspiracy theory is madness does get pretty tiring though. Hence, Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V.

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