I’m seriously upset over Doomfist

General Discussion
14 heroes counter Doomfist, 4 of those 14 hard counters him.

The main reason this really upsets me even though this game is supposedly a game of counters is Tracer is supposed to be countered by Hog & Mcree, but even if the enemy runs both she can still outplay them.

Pharah can be ran even when the enemy team is running double hitscan / Zen if she’s smart and has a pocket.

Reaper is supposed to counter Hog and Winston, and even though he does, you can still play those two around a Reaper if your know what you’re doing.

But Doomfist now, if the enemy team has Junkrat, Hog, D.Va, Mcree, even a Torb or a Bastions, even if you play smart even if you’re better and made the right choices your effectiveness is chopped right in half and it’s almsot mandatory you switch if they’re running 1 to 2 of his counters because they’re that effective towards him.

I only have 23 hours total playtime on Doom, almost 5 total in competitive but I’ve watched dozens and dozens of hours of top tier Doomfist gameplay by Hydration & Chipsa, not even the top 1% the damn top 10 Doomfist players and even they get stomped on often by simple plays and counters no matter how mechanicaly good and smart they play.

It gets me upset because I love playing Doomfist and I also love watching people play Doomfist and it’s going to be really lame if the 3rd year of tournaments pass by and we’re still seeing Tracer and (can’t name this person here apparently) as the primary dps the majority of the time.

It gets me upset because I know even if they fixed his bugs he won’t get played even a quarter fraction as much as the dps that are currently being played because those dps destroy him because their kits chemistry with his and he still won’t be picked at all in tourneys. He’s been picked several times but each time he gets destroyed no matter what pro is playing him.

I’m seriously upset, and you can mock me and say I’m wrong as much as you want, but after his bugs are finally fixed and god who knows just how long that will take he will still need buffs and improvements, primarily his survivability, and they will take their sweet time but I know they will eventually finally begin buffing him. It gets me seriously upset because I feel like I truly know this because Junkrat, Hog, Mcree, D.Va, Orisa, Tracer, (can’t name this person here) they will each still be better and overdominate him because how their kits mix against each other offensively and some things defensively. And it’ll be so long before this hero actually becomes half as good and a truly viable pick as some currently meta heroes.

Just really wanted to let this out here, but whatever, I’m expecting being mocked and called an idiot because I wish Doomfist was better sooner and think I know he’ll need buffs after these bugs, but whatever it doesn’t hurt me so that’s why I’m still saying it, I’m just hoping some people will believe what I’m saying is right. That’s all.

Edit: erased anything mentioning Gengi since people become knights for him
Winston will kill a genji 9/10 times if all Winston does is wait to Genji to dash before jumping on his face OR close the distance while walking so you can leap as genji dashes.

Jumping on a genji that is being healed though inst a fair comparison as its 2/1 essentially.
12/08/2017 06:43 PMPosted by NoName
Winston will kill a genji 9/10 times if all Winston does is wait to Genji to dash before jumping on his face OR close the distance while walking so you can leap as genji dashes.

Jumping on a genji that is being healed though inst a fair comparison as its 2/1 essentially.
not the point of this thread but go ahead and make your own about how easy it is to kill Gengi as Winston if you really want to talk about it
Hmm I wonder about that... with Symmetra.
I’ve never seen someone switch to Genji to counter a Symmetra... that literally makes no sense. Genji may be able to get away if he takes damage from Symmetra but his kit isn’t designed to counter her. Switching to a Pharah, Winston, or Junkrat would make actual sense.
12/08/2017 06:43 PMPosted by NoName
Winston will kill a genji 9/10 times if all Winston does is wait to Genji to dash before jumping on his face OR close the distance while walking so you can leap as genji dashes.

Jumping on a genji that is being healed though inst a fair comparison as its 2/1 essentially.


Depends on location. In a lot of places Genji can just run up a wall and on to high ground to stay away from Winston, if Winston attacks him up there he can drop down then climb back up if Winston follows. No cooldown.

He can also reset his dash so you may dive him if he dashes but then he can often just dash away again. Winston has the advantage but Genji has too many tools and can often just avoid him completely.
Suddenly this is another Gengi thread, holy !@#$ guys I’ll erase that little section with Gengi then. God no wonder why no other heroes get attention when people seem to only want to cherry pick things that mention Mercy or Gengi on these forums
The thing is, those heroes you listed - for the most part, and while they are absolutely true - are balanced. Their counters are underwhelming/underpowered, and because of that, the balanced heroes like Tracer and Genji have a major advantage.

Their kits aren't OP imo. Tracer fundamentally has downsides and weaknesses. It's the fact that her counters have kits that are either clunky or they're underpowered and passed off as "niche" heroes. The game rewards mobility above everything else. More mobility = better, be it horizontal or vertical. Doomfist has decent mobility but not enough to compensate for being close-quarter combat.

Doomfist either needs to be re-examined to see what he needs to be able to manage, or underpowered heroes need to be buffed in order to assist him.
Is this even the same game on xboxlive? Like the things you are saying would sound completely unreasonable coming from a 3.8k SR player on PC. Some of the statements are reasonable, but there are a ton of very absurd claims. Some example statements: Genji 'counters' Symmetra!?, Pharah can work into double hitscan?, Winston can outplay Reaper?.
DF players know that the bug fixes will make DF more consistent but it doesn’t mean his quality of life will improve greatly. He is still the same in the end.
12/08/2017 07:32 PMPosted by Andough
The thing is, those heroes you listed - for the most part, and while they are absolutely true - are balanced. Their counters are underwhelming/underpowered, and because of that, the balanced heroes like Tracer and Genji have a major advantage.

Their kits aren't OP imo. Tracer fundamentally has downsides and weaknesses. It's the fact that her counters have kits that are either clunky or they're underpowered and passed off as "niche" heroes. The game rewards mobility above everything else. More mobility = better, be it horizontal or vertical. Doomfist has decent mobility but not enough to compensate for being close-quarter combat.

Doomfist either needs to be re-examined to see what he needs to be able to manage, or underpowered heroes need to be buffed in order to assist him.
I never said any of them where overpowered in this thread, I also said he needs his survivability side buffed, not the offensive side.

It’s not the problem that other heroes are broken it’s how many heroes are very effective countering him.
12/08/2017 06:25 PMPosted by Smartest
14 heroes counter Doomfist, 4 of those 14 hard counters him.

The main reason this really upsets me even though this game is supposedly a game of counters is Tracer is supposed to be countered by Hog & Mcree, but even if the enemy runs both she can still outplay them.

Pharah can be ran even when the enemy team is running double hitscan / Zen if she’s smart and has a pocket.

Reaper is supposed to counter Hog and Winston, and even though he does, you can still play those two around a Reaper if your know what you’re doing.

But Doomfist now, if the enemy team has Junkrat, Hog, D.Va, Mcree, even a Torb or a Bastions, even if you play smart even if you’re better and made the right choices your effectiveness is chopped right in half and it’s almsot mandatory you switch if they’re running 1 to 2 of his counters because they’re that effective towards him.

I only have 23 hours total playtime on Doom, almost 5 total in competitive but I’ve watched dozens and dozens of hours of top tier Doomfist gameplay by Hydration & Chipsa, not even the top 1% the damn top 10 Doomfist players and even they get stomped on often by simple plays and counters no matter how mechanicaly good and smart they play.

It gets me upset because I love playing Doomfist and I also love watching people play Doomfist and it’s going to be really lame if the 3rd year of tournaments pass by and we’re still seeing Tracer and (can’t name this person here apparently) as the primary dps the majority of the time.

It gets me upset because I know even if they fixed his bugs he won’t get played even a quarter fraction as much as the dps that are currently being played because those dps destroy him because their kits chemistry with his and he still won’t be picked at all in tourneys. He’s been picked several times but each time he gets destroyed no matter what pro is playing him.

I’m seriously upset, and you can mock me and say I’m wrong as much as you want, but after his bugs are finally fixed and god who knows just how long that will take he will still need buffs and improvements, primarily his survivability, and they will take their sweet time but I know they will eventually finally begin buffing him. It gets me seriously upset because I feel like I truly know this because Junkrat, Hog, Mcree, D.Va, Orisa, Tracer, (can’t name this person here) they will each still be better and overdominate him because how their kits mix against each other offensively and some things defensively. And it’ll be so long before this hero actually becomes half as good and a truly viable pick as some currently meta heroes.

Just really wanted to let this out here, but whatever, I’m expecting being mocked and called an idiot because I wish Doomfist was better sooner and think I know he’ll need buffs after these bugs, but whatever it doesn’t hurt me so that’s why I’m still saying it, I’m just hoping some people will believe what I’m saying is right. That’s all.

Edit: erased anything mentioning Gengi since people become knights for him


well remember how awesome he was when they first released him? well the crybabies screamed "unfun" and voila, now he's fodder.
Doomfist's problem is his massive hitbox, plain and simple, you get punished for mistakes so much harder than other DPS. For instance a Zarya who has trouble tracking Tracer/Genji will be able to hit a DF the majority of the time.

Personally, I don't think DF will be properly viable unless he is re-designed as a tank.
12/08/2017 07:35 PMPosted by Aux
Is this even the same game on xboxlive? Like the things you are saying would sound completely unreasonable coming from a 3.8k SR player on PC. Some of the statements are reasonable, but there are a ton of very absurd claims. Some example statements: Genji 'counters' Symmetra!?, Pharah can work into double hitscan?, Winston can outplay Reaper?.
I watch Twitch almost every night for 1 to 2 hours. I watch a lot of pc pros, and I have pretty good idea how the game works on pc from probably over hundreds of hours of observing.

Also I never said Winston counters Reaper, I said he can play around an enemy Reaper when it’s much harder, can frequently enough be impossible for a DF to play around a Hog or Junk.
He has a one shot kill on a 4 second cool down, and he's meant to be in the middle of the enemy team. He needs lots of counters for balance..
12/08/2017 07:58 PMPosted by GrantMan
He has a one shot kill on a 4 second cool down, and he's meant to be in the middle of the enemy team. He needs lots of counters for balance..
he has the lowest pickrate across the board and 3rd lowest winrate, obviously his unstoppable uncounterable undodgable mighty punch doesn’t make up for his balance by a long shot(..)
Torb not doing that well either. But don’t know how they would increase the skill.
Doom can also one punch all the 200 hp heroes soooo.
12/08/2017 08:04 PMPosted by Smartest
12/08/2017 07:58 PMPosted by GrantMan
He has a one shot kill on a 4 second cool down, and he's meant to be in the middle of the enemy team. He needs lots of counters for balance..
he has the lowest pickrate across the board and 3rd lowest winrate, obviously his unstoppable uncounterable undodgable mighty punch doesn’t make up for his balance by a long shot(..)
That's because he's broken..? His punch not working has nothing to do with him being countered..
12/08/2017 07:24 PMPosted by ImNotBrad
I’ve never seen someone switch to Genji to counter a Symmetra... that literally makes no sense. Genji may be able to get away if he takes damage from Symmetra but his kit isn’t designed to counter her. Switching to a Pharah, Winston, or Junkrat would make actual sense.


well when a character has a bloated OP as sin kit that allows them burst anyone down at any range vs a character that telegraphs their only burst, the bloated kit wins out

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