THEY JUST NERFED MOIRA RMB LOCK-ON

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Why is 90% of the people on this forum so salty about a nerf that needed to happen.

It's a shooter game... One where you're supposed to aim and not get a long range soft-lock beam as a support.. Despite the soft-lock gone it still is easier to aim with than a tracer or soldier since you can aim for the body and it has a bigger hitbox.
11/21/2017 01:41 AMPosted by Gromidon
Why is 90% of the people on this forum so salty about a nerf that needed to happen.

It's a shooter game... One where you're supposed to aim and not get a long range soft-lock beam as a support.. Despite the soft-lock gone it still is easier to aim with than a tracer or soldier since you can aim for the body and it has a bigger hitbox.


Because people who couldn’t aim were getting gold elims.......... with a support!

What could possibly be OP/broken about that??!?
Well, let's analize it a bit:

I cannot find any official numbers for moira so I will use some from the outsider site.

Moira heals 80/s with her primary fire. Her orb heals for 75/s. This combines to best healing even outhealing any other 2 supports combined unless ana biotic grenade comes in(and only if it is mercy+ana healing single target).
So she is best healer in the game in terms of pure healing per second. She actually is able bring back tank meta almost on her own.
Her healing range is 15m and it persist after she stops for about 2s with lowered effect.
To express it even more:
Genji blade(ultimate) deals 120 per swing which is roughly 1/s. She can outheal it with her basic abilities. And do it for everyone that are attacked by genji as she have aoe healing.

When moira wants to deal damage then she have potential to dish out 50/s from her right click, and 50/s from the orb.
This equals mercy dps, outdps every other support. Counting HS into equation she still outdps ana that requires precise aim. And zenyatta needs to be consistenly landing headshots on orb of discord target. And lucio needs to land more than a half of his shots as headshots.
EVEN counting her primary fire only she still is not at such a bad state. Ana deals 62/s.
She HEALS herself during attack for 33/s. This is not a big deal but is still the strongest among supports. Lucio is at 12/s and ana have biotic grenade each 8s for 100hp which is 12,5/s(also dealing 60 dmg to be fair and debuff)
For some representation how it translates: only using her right click and dueling with winston she is able to survive 9s and deal to him 450 damage. Only using her right click.

She has one of the strongest escape abilities in the game, but maybe reduce it to only supports. She has instant cast, invulnerable, escape from grav, movement speed increase(still maintains control over trajectory for short duration) and canceling debuffs.
This actually cannot be compared to any ability in support category, there is only guardian angel which only advantage over this is shorter cooldown and amp it up lucio which have longer duration but slower movement speed.

Her cons as a character are:
- medium range, although 15m for healing is still on par with mercy staff and 5m more than lucio aura. 20m for damaging is lowest among supports but I would argue that firing on such range with lucio is a hazardous attempt.
- limitied healing bar. It lasts 9s and need to be replenished with damage. That is unique among supports.
But just to compare it: Over that time she heals 1390 while:
>mercy heals 600, let's add her rez into equasion(and count she rezzed roadhog for 600hp) = 1140
>ana heals 562,5 let's add biotic grenade and sum it up with all the factors: 787,5
> just out of curiosity, zenyatta, counting in his ultimate will heal during that time 1890. So he will outheal her by 500 using the most rapid healing ultimate in the game. He is more effective by 35%

My point is, moira is a beast, I like what she can do, her play forces you to be quick and use that 9s effectively or ration your healing using the fact that she has lasting effect with lowered output. She is elusive and pretty self sufficient.
I would dare to use analogy that she is like tracer among supports, extremely skill dependent and versatile.

But her aim and tracking is not.
11/21/2017 01:47 AMPosted by Edsoulman
11/21/2017 01:41 AMPosted by Gromidon
Why is 90% of the people on this forum so salty about a nerf that needed to happen.

It's a shooter game... One where you're supposed to aim and not get a long range soft-lock beam as a support.. Despite the soft-lock gone it still is easier to aim with than a tracer or soldier since you can aim for the body and it has a bigger hitbox.


Because people who couldn’t aim were getting gold elims.......... with a support!

What could possibly be OP/broken about that??!?


Elims are easy to get as Moira because you just need to do one damage so someone, which is easy when you got an orb which moves and attacks anyone around it.
Here is the actual difference
https://gfycat.com/WastefulForcefulGoldfinch

Practice range has issues exaggerating the difference.
Example no hit marker on close bot - https://imgur.com/c4YrPrF
11/21/2017 02:47 AMPosted by Foxzie
Here is the actual difference
https://gfycat.com/WastefulForcefulGoldfinch

Practice range has issues exaggerating the difference.
Example no hit marker on close bot - https://imgur.com/c4YrPrF


Wow, that is quality post right here. Upvote deserved my friend.

You should start own thread for visibility. Blizzard after all is not doing as radical changes as they are believed to do
11/21/2017 02:47 AMPosted by Foxzie
Here is the actual difference
https://gfycat.com/WastefulForcefulGoldfinch


Do the same on genji, not a tank. Moira was somewhat good against nimble flankers with slim hitboxes. Now she is not.

All heroes have a lot of ways to be countered. Flankers are not. At first, devs destroyed Roadhog. Now they nerf Moira. Flankers have no hard-counters at all.
I'm still hoping this is an unintended change. Blizzard please get a handle on your patch notes. Far too many times this happens and we are left for 24-48 hrs not knowing what he intention. That's not how patch notes work. Thanks.
Just stop crying.....

My Hog got nerf.
My Reaper got nerf.
My D.va got nerf.
My Mercy got nerf.
My Lucio got nerf.
Now ? Im Solider 76 / Phara / Hog main and i'm not complaining.
This nerf was well needed compere to others.
11/21/2017 01:41 AMPosted by Gromidon
Why is 90% of the people on this forum so salty about a nerf that needed to happen.

It's a shooter game... One where you're supposed to aim and not get a long range soft-lock beam as a support.. Despite the soft-lock gone it still is easier to aim with than a tracer or soldier since you can aim for the body and it has a bigger hitbox.

>Genji main
11/21/2017 03:07 AMPosted by TheHunter
11/21/2017 01:41 AMPosted by Gromidon
Why is 90% of the people on this forum so salty about a nerf that needed to happen.

It's a shooter game... One where you're supposed to aim and not get a long range soft-lock beam as a support.. Despite the soft-lock gone it still is easier to aim with than a tracer or soldier since you can aim for the body and it has a bigger hitbox.

>Genji main


if me being a genji main is the only argument you have you must be truly desperate.. sadly for you I play plenty other heroes besides genji on the same level.
11/21/2017 03:10 AMPosted by Gromidon
<span class="truncated">...</span>
>Genji main


if me being a genji main is the only argument you have you must be truly desperate.. sadly for you I play plenty other heroes besides genji on the same level.

I forgot to mention you have no playtime on Moira. Why is having a support that can defend hinself from flankers a bad thing?
Both Genji and Tracer have very slim hitboxes and enormous amount of mobility. It is already very hard to track them, but they also have ways to deny or avoid damage (Recall and Deflect).
We need Moira with old lock-on, because it was the good way to deal with flankers. And that was not OP, because 50dps is a very low amount, it takes 3 seconds of uninterrupted tracking to kill Tracer and 4 seconds to kill Genji. Both of them can outdamage Moira even through her self-healing and kill her within ~2 seconds. Yes, she has her Orbs, but keep in mind that she has to use it for healing too, and both Genji and Tracer have ways to avoid Orbs.

Moira's weapon has a range limit, can't perform headshots and has the lowest damage in the game. The lock-on was the only strong part of it and it was absolutely justified by her weaknesses. If this change will go Live there will be no point to pick Moira over other healers because she provides no utility.
11/21/2017 03:12 AMPosted by TheHunter

I forgot to mention you have no playtime on Moira. Why is having a support that can defend hinself from flankers a bad thing?


It is wrong to have support that outclass any other support. And yes, flanker role is to kill supports and moira is pretty much very well equiped to defend herself. Problem is that she can quite efficiently counter flankers and outheal everything. She can counter non burst ultimates pretty well.
...

if me being a genji main is the only argument you have you must be truly desperate.. sadly for you I play plenty other heroes besides genji on the same level.

I forgot to mention you have no playtime on Moira. Why is having a support that can defend hinself from flankers a bad thing?


Zen can defend himself with discord and a little aim, ana can sleep + nade + shoot or just sleep and get help from team, lucio can runaway or duel most flanks, symm is a counter to genji unless challenged on long range, mercy has the most problems vs flanks unless they're not good at flanking.

almost all of the supports can defend themselves, and if you wanna use "Yea but you have to aim for it" as an argument, if your aim is bad the people on your rank will most likely have also worse aim and even if this is not the case you have to position yourself around your team instead of trying to challenge flankers.
...

if me being a genji main is the only argument you have you must be truly desperate.. sadly for you I play plenty other heroes besides genji on the same level.

I forgot to mention you have no playtime on Moira. Why is having a support that can defend hinself from flankers a bad thing?


About not having played Moira.. I participate in high masters to GM scrims where we used moira and she was very much overtuned and no thats not only my opinion.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

if me being a genji main is the only argument you have you must be truly desperate.. sadly for you I play plenty other heroes besides genji on the same level.

I forgot to mention you have no playtime on Moira. Why is having a support that can defend hinself from flankers a bad thing?

She is f..... HEALER. There is something wrong if you want just holt left click with supp hero what request almost ZERO AIM IN FPS GAME and killing hight skill cap heroes like genji / tracer atc. + Not forget her life-steal / 20m rage and her biggest AOE heal per sec compere to others.
Good change. Enjoy aiming.
11/20/2017 03:02 PMPosted by JaneM
On PTR it requires almost a pin-point accuracy to damage enemies with Moira's RMB.

And this is wrong, because..?
11/21/2017 03:15 AMPosted by JaneM
Both Genji and Tracer have very slim hitboxes and enormous amount of mobility. It is already very hard to track them, but they also have ways to deny or avoid damage (Recall and Deflect).
We need Moira with old lock-on, because it was the good way to deal with flankers. And that was not OP, because 50dps is a very low amount, it takes 3 seconds of uninterrupted tracking to kill Tracer and 4 seconds to kill Genji. Both of them can outdamage Moira even through her self-healing and kill her within ~2 seconds. Yes, she has her Orbs, but keep in mind that she has to use it for healing too, and both Genji and Tracer have ways to avoid Orbs.

Moira's weapon has a range limit, can't perform headshots and has the lowest damage in the game. The lock-on was the only strong part of it and it was absolutely justified by her weaknesses. If this change will go Live there will be no point to pick Moira over other healers because she provides no utility.


She still outheals every other support. Also outdps most of them. Also outmanouver most of them.

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