THEY JUST NERFED MOIRA RMB LOCK-ON

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11/21/2017 05:25 AMPosted by Kefka
Nothing wrong with making a character take skill


It is wrong to increasing skill requirement without increasing the reward.
I am okay if hero requires good aim if it rewarded with good damage.
Mccree requires a very good aim. But it is rewarded with good amount of 150dps without headshots and 300dps with all headshots.
Zarya requires good aim and good tracking skill. But it is rewarded with 95dps with 0% charge and 190dps at 100% charge.

Currently Moira requires the same aim and tracking skill as Zarya requires. But it is rewarded with only 50dps with no ability to headshot and with limited range.

That is a problem. And the fact that she is a support and because of that she is not supposed to kill enemies - it is not an argument. Because ALL other healers can deal even more damage while requiring almost the same amount of skill.
Way too soon for such a big nerf. Running out of healing charge is already a problem, and since charging up is completely dependent on RMB, this is a HUGE nerf to both damage AND healing.
11/21/2017 05:51 AMPosted by Kraylessa
Way too soon for such a big nerf. Running out of healing charge is already a problem, and since charging up is completely dependent on RMB, this is a HUGE nerf to both damage AND healing.


Yep
You enjoyed Moira too much. Here's your reward.

1.2 shot per second, not 1.2 seconds between shots. It means she deals more damage per second than her damage per shot.

No I did not counted it. I thought he has 3 shots per second and deals 46*3=136 damage per second without Discord. But I mistaken and he does 2.5 shots per second so he deals 46*2.5=115 damage per second, which is also more than Moira does.

well, I was mistaken with ana, sorry. I admit I made error here.

11/21/2017 05:23 AMPosted by JaneM

Not counting part of her dps ability is like not counting dash into genjis damage. Not really live-like.

Because it is not only a DPS ability. Half of the time she should use it for healing.
Then you should count mercy dps as 0 as she cannot damage while healing and moira can.

She can't heal with LMB and deal damage with RMB at the same time. Delay between switching hands is slightly faster than switch time between caduceus and pistol for Mercy.


Those 2 statements contradict each other. Either you count orb as damage or as healing. I count them as both, the same as genjis dash. It is not only damage ability but escape as well. So are orbs.
Moira can heal for 75/s while damaging for 50/s. It is actually best way to deal with flankers. Tossing orb to heal yourself and moving towards your tanks while damaging and healing yourself through vampirism. It gives you whoping 103 heal/s which is more than many dps can dish out without headshots.
And other way around. She can go full dps and damage for 100/s. Of course I admit that orb is not a reliable source of damage but in a teamfight it repays with its aoe.
She is versatile. You cannot simply state she deals flat 50 dmg or heals 80/s as she can choose what she wants to do. Versatility is advantage not downside to this character. It adds incentive to play and choose correct strategy. She can do any combination of dealing/healing with either orb or hands. And her damage is at least on par with other supports, outdamaging most of them and healing far surpass any of two combined except of zen ult and ana+mercy healing with biogrenade.
MY most worring example is that she can duel with winston and it will take 9s to kill her while she will stand still with her vampirism and still it will consume 450 hp of winston. Winston, whose role is exclusively isolating and killing squishes is powerless against her. Flankers cannot do much against her. You must wait until she runs out of juice... which is very interesting concept itself and I want to see how she will affect meta. But she cannot be such easy to use character. She has way too much kit. Right now even I can easily track enemies and they have to hide behind obstacles. And I am freaking plat.

11/21/2017 05:23 AMPosted by JaneM

11/21/2017 04:48 AMPosted by Rachitynowy
Her ability is far more powerful as pointed previously. No other supports gets out-of-jail card each 6s.

Mercy has it with 1.5sec CD. Lucio combo of wall-ride speed-boost and jumping + RMB knockback saves him all the time.


Well then, time will show. I regard out-of-jail card as far more powerful than those 2 abilities.
Either you count orb as damage or as healing. I count them as both, the same as genjis dash. It is not only damage ability but escape as well. So are orbs.


Dash can be use to deal damage and to escape at the same time, with one CD.
Orbs can't be use to deal damage and to heal at the same time.
Dash has 8sec CD and reloads with kills.
Orb has 10 sec CD and you have to choose one of two effects.
If the concern is solo kills and being good against flankers, isn't the orb the problem? They have essentially nerfed her damage with this change, which also nerfs her heal Regen, but the existence of orb means she will still be good at the things people complain about?

Then what, we nerf her orb and wait for months for her to get a deserved buff so she is usable again?
The people who wanted her nerfed did so for 1 of either 3 reasons:

1. They played FFA and got destroyed by multiple beams and orbs

2. They went into no limits and got destroyed by multiple beams and orbs.

3. Brain dead dps looks at kill feed, sees Moira killed them and cries nerf. Not realizing she most likely got the kill because the dps was already at 10-20% HP and moira got the last hit in. But all they see is the kill feed.
11/21/2017 01:47 AMPosted by Edsoulman
Because people who couldn’t aim were getting gold elims.......... with a support!

What could possibly be OP/broken about that??!?


First of all, her gold elims are coming from incidental damage from her orbs. If they only do a tick or two of damage to people as they pass by, they get the "tag" and count as an assist.

But, even if you make that argument that she does too much damage, this is still not the right way to nerf her. Her healing resource regens from RMB. Running out was already a real issue. Nerfing her lock-on nerfs both her damage AND her healing. Even if she did need a damage nerf (I don't think she did), she didn't need a healing nerf. Just reduce the damage of her RMB and maybe even the self-heal from it, but not the lock-on or the healing resource charge.
“Blizzard listens to our feedback” (nerfs Moria when nobody complained at all)
Moiras dps is not a problem, her consistency is. She has to easy damage ability. She is perfect to kill off escaping characters.

But what worries me is that people suggest she is not attaching properly right now like zarya did. Is it true? This is bug they should look into. As long she is tracking target she should be dealing damage.

11/21/2017 06:06 AMPosted by JaneM
Either you count orb as damage or as healing. I count them as both, the same as genjis dash. It is not only damage ability but escape as well. So are orbs.


Dash can be use to deal damage and to escape at the same time, with one CD.
Orbs can't be use to deal damage and to heal at the same time.
Dash has 8sec CD and reloads with kills.
Orb has 10 sec CD and you have to choose one of two effects.


And that is why it has aoe effect, multiple options to choose and longer duration.
Why versatility is downside? It is like complaining that ana can heal with biotic grenade because she is too often using it to throw at friendlies and when flanked, she has it on cooldown. It is other way around. You cannot easily jump on moira because she potentially can throw her orb. If you damage her too much initially she will throw healing orb and make it hard to finish off and if she will feel confident she will go full dps. Her versatility is actually scarier for flankers. If someone cought you without your orb he outplayed you, right? You still have out-of-jail card available though.
She felt so balanced though...
11/21/2017 05:46 AMPosted by JaneM
11/21/2017 05:25 AMPosted by Kefka
Nothing wrong with making a character take skill


It is wrong to increasing skill requirement without increasing the reward.
I am okay if hero requires good aim if it rewarded with good damage.
Mccree requires a very good aim. But it is rewarded with good amount of 150dps without headshots and 300dps with all headshots.
Zarya requires good aim and good tracking skill. But it is rewarded with 95dps with 0% charge and 190dps at 100% charge.

Currently Moira requires the same aim and tracking skill as Zarya requires. But it is rewarded with only 50dps with no ability to headshot and with limited range.

That is a problem. And the fact that she is a support and because of that she is not supposed to kill enemies - it is not an argument. Because ALL other healers can deal even more damage while requiring almost the same amount of skill.


Mccree is 75 damage a shot and 150 on headshots lol
11/21/2017 06:25 AMPosted by Rachitynowy
You cannot easily jump on moira because she potentially can throw her orb.


You can. Because all flankers have tons of tools to counter orb. Tracer has 3 blinks with 3sec CD to simply avoid it and Recall to deny all damage received. Genji can simply Deflect orb, even the healing one. Also, orb is almost useless and very easy to counter in open spaces.
Moira' low, but constant damage was her only reliable strength. Now her damage is still low, but not as constant and reliable. You can't justified low and unreliable damage with unreliable and easy no counter ability with long CD.
11/21/2017 05:34 AMPosted by Awkward
11/21/2017 03:16 AMPosted by Gromidon
Zen can defend himself with discord and a little aim, ana can sleep + nade + shoot or just sleep and get help from team, lucio can runaway or duel most flanks, symm is a counter to genji unless challenged on long range, mercy has the most problems vs flanks unless they're not good at flanking.


You're pretending it's anywhere near a fair fight though, when it's not. Moira leveled the playing field somewhat and she was still definitely at a disadvantage against Flankers (less so Genji than Tracer though).

Unless you think the Support consistently having to be 10x better than the Flanker is "defending themselves".

11/21/2017 05:25 AMPosted by Kefka
Nothing wrong with making a character take skill


I agree. But why don't they reduce Genji's Swift Strike, Deflect or Dragonblade hitboxes?

It's way more absurd than Moira's RMB, and would make Genji take far more skill to play properly.


Genji takes a ton of skill to play properly wdym? And those hitboxes are completely fair. The character is already having a rough time this season.
11/21/2017 06:42 AMPosted by Kefka
Mccree is 75 damage a shot and 150 on headshots lol


75 damage per shot. 2 shots per second. 150 damage per second. Learn math.
11/21/2017 06:44 AMPosted by JaneM
11/21/2017 06:42 AMPosted by Kefka
Mccree is 75 damage a shot and 150 on headshots lol


75 damage per shot. 2 shots per second. 150 damage per second. Learn math.
woah calm down there, I read it wrong no need to be toxic.
UHMM WHERE IS MY BLUE POST ON THIS??? HELLO?
11/21/2017 06:51 AMPosted by Pokono
UHMM WHERE IS MY BLUE POST ON THIS??? HELLO?


Blizzard devs probably haven't started their day yet, and I'm also guessing they're going to have a quick meeting on what to tell the community first, since the outrage is pretty bad. I figure we'll have to wait for a bit.
11/21/2017 06:59 AMPosted by raidenbutt
11/21/2017 06:51 AMPosted by Pokono
UHMM WHERE IS MY BLUE POST ON THIS??? HELLO?


Blizzard devs probably haven't started their day yet, and I'm also guessing they're going to have a quick meeting on what to tell the community first, since the outrage is pretty bad. I figure we'll have to wait for a bit.


They don't need a meeting to tell us they !@#$ed up.

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