The "Widow" Effect - Why It's Usually A Troll Pick

Competitive Discussion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kdu7iZOPfA

This video is an excellent demonstration of why Widowmaker is usually a detriment to a competitive team.

I know players, especially Widow mains, will scream that this widow gets gold eliminations and damage over the course of the game to argue that she's actually a good pick. Yes, the Widow in the video does have good accuracy and has some good plays as well, but it doesn't matter because EFFECTIVE eliminations and damage are what matters.

Widowmakers are only effective they get picks before a fight, or during a fight, NOT AFTER A FIGHT. Looking at pro replays of Widow, they start a fight by securing a good vantage point, like on top of the wall in Hanamura, and then get picks. If the pro gets a pick or two, its basically a won fight.

The platinum Widow never had much pressure to apply to begin with, so they could keep diving her over and over, and as long as they do not die to her and run away while low, her early pick potential gets shut down. Yes, the Widow does not die, but that doesn't matter. Widow HAS to get early picks to be an effective pick. Widow does not do high pressure, mid fight damage very well.

Notice that just because Genji was on "Widow duty", it did not mean he had to harass her the entire time. The rest of the enemy team was either too tanky(Road, Rein, Lucio), or was evasive(Genji, Soldier, etc) during the fight.

Widow usually only gets one or two chances to headshot a DPS until they start counter play and typically just avoid line of sight and its exactly what happened DURING the fight.

While the Widow got some impressive multikills and did some fancy juking, most of the kills did not help her team and the Widow buckled under the mid fight pressure that left her mostly useless during fights. As a consequence, the enemy team controlled the points the majority of the time. It also does not help that Widow cannot safely contest a point unlike a true DPS like McCree or 76.

Is there ever a time when Widow is a good pick? Of course. Getting early picks before a team fight is effective, but if that doesn't happen then the Widow is obligated to switch. There's no other way to say that playing Widow like a long ranged DPS is trolling, period.
Stylosa video, instant downvote. Also that widow is higher ranked than you, git gud.
Widow is always a good pick :D
if your widow is getting picks and the other 5 people on the team dont push on those picks it isnt the widows fault
12/06/2017 10:38 AMPosted by Sexycrab
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kdu7iZOPfA

This video is an excellent demonstration of why Widowmaker is usually a detriment to a competitive team.

I know players, especially Widow mains, will scream that this widow gets gold eliminations and damage over the course of the game to argue that she's actually a good pick. Yes, the Widow in the video does have good accuracy and has some good plays as well, but it doesn't matter because EFFECTIVE eliminations and damage are what matters.

Widowmakers are only effective they get picks before a fight, or during a fight, NOT AFTER A FIGHT. Looking at pro replays of Widow, they start a fight by securing a good vantage point, like on top of the wall in Hanamura, and then get picks. If the pro gets a pick or two, its basically a won fight.

The platinum Widow never had much pressure to apply to begin with, so they could keep diving her over and over, and as long as they do not die to her and run away while low, her early pick potential gets shut down. Yes, the Widow does not die, but that doesn't matter. Widow HAS to get early picks to be an effective pick. Widow does not do high pressure, mid fight damage very well.

Notice that just because Genji was on "Widow duty", it did not mean he had to harass her the entire time. The rest of the enemy team was either too tanky(Road, Rein, Lucio), or was evasive(Genji, Soldier, etc) during the fight.

Widow usually only gets one or two chances to headshot a DPS until they start counter play and typically just avoid line of sight and its exactly what happened DURING the fight.

While the Widow got some impressive multikills and did some fancy juking, most of the kills did not help her team and the Widow buckled under the mid fight pressure that left her mostly useless during fights. As a consequence, the enemy team controlled the points the majority of the time. It also does not help that Widow cannot safely contest a point unlike a true DPS like McCree or 76.

Is there ever a time when Widow is a good pick? Of course. Getting early picks before a team fight is effective, but if that doesn't happen then the Widow is obligated to switch. There's no other way to say that playing Widow like a long ranged DPS is trolling, period.


Hey that's me from season 4. Pick timing is difficult, gotten better than I was then but still working on it.
12/06/2017 11:48 AMPosted by Mitsuha
if your widow is getting picks and the other 5 people on the team dont push on those picks it isnt the widows fault

This.

If a Widow gets a pick *before* the fight, that's your cue to initiate the fight. Use ultimates if you have to, but at that point it's a 5v6. Even if you don't factor the widow as part of the team fight, it's a 5v5, but the enemy team has to work in limited space, or risk giving Widow more free shots. Any way you slice it YOU HAVE THE ADVANTAGE, ACT ON IT

If you have a Widow on your team, make sure the rest of your team is made up of characters like D.Va, Winston, Genji, Tracer, Lucio, or basically anyone that can act quickly on a pick, or easily mop up damage to finish off a body shot.

If you want to cite pro games, Look at South Korea vs USA on Hanamura in the world cup. fl0w3r's Widowmaker had a ton of hype plays, but that wasn't just because he was good. It's because he had Saebyolbe in the back mopping up, and forcing duels in places USA was scared to fight. Meanwhile Mano and Zunba on the tanks were right in USA's faces giving fl0w3r all the room in the world to get pick after pick. He was rarely challenged for it.
Copy and Paste for the Hanamura game against Canada.

So instead of criticizing your Widow for not being fl0w3r, criticize yourself for not being the rest of team SK and enabling her to get the most value out of her pick.

The only time a Widowmaker is not effective is when she is either not hitting any shots, or not coordinating with the team.
Hey dude. Sometimes you just get outplayed, it's not one person's fault
12/06/2017 11:48 AMPosted by SSJ3500
12/06/2017 10:38 AMPosted by Sexycrab
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kdu7iZOPfA

This video is an excellent demonstration of why Widowmaker is usually a detriment to a competitive team.

I know players, especially Widow mains, will scream that this widow gets gold eliminations and damage over the course of the game to argue that she's actually a good pick. Yes, the Widow in the video does have good accuracy and has some good plays as well, but it doesn't matter because EFFECTIVE eliminations and damage are what matters.

Widowmakers are only effective they get picks before a fight, or during a fight, NOT AFTER A FIGHT. Looking at pro replays of Widow, they start a fight by securing a good vantage point, like on top of the wall in Hanamura, and then get picks. If the pro gets a pick or two, its basically a won fight.

The platinum Widow never had much pressure to apply to begin with, so they could keep diving her over and over, and as long as they do not die to her and run away while low, her early pick potential gets shut down. Yes, the Widow does not die, but that doesn't matter. Widow HAS to get early picks to be an effective pick. Widow does not do high pressure, mid fight damage very well.

Notice that just because Genji was on "Widow duty", it did not mean he had to harass her the entire time. The rest of the enemy team was either too tanky(Road, Rein, Lucio), or was evasive(Genji, Soldier, etc) during the fight.

Widow usually only gets one or two chances to headshot a DPS until they start counter play and typically just avoid line of sight and its exactly what happened DURING the fight.

While the Widow got some impressive multikills and did some fancy juking, most of the kills did not help her team and the Widow buckled under the mid fight pressure that left her mostly useless during fights. As a consequence, the enemy team controlled the points the majority of the time. It also does not help that Widow cannot safely contest a point unlike a true DPS like McCree or 76.

Is there ever a time when Widow is a good pick? Of course. Getting early picks before a team fight is effective, but if that doesn't happen then the Widow is obligated to switch. There's no other way to say that playing Widow like a long ranged DPS is trolling, period.


Hey that's me from season 4. Pick timing is difficult, gotten better than I was then but still working on it.

No! You can't practice a hero if you suck with them originally. You have to be gud, no "gitting" will be permitted here
Widowmaker gets the picks. You get on point.
The amount of people on these forums complaining about Snipers and Flankers not getting on point is staggering
12/06/2017 10:38 AMPosted by Sexycrab

Is there ever a time when Widow is a good pick? Of course. Getting early picks before a team fight is effective, but if that doesn't happen then the Widow is obligated to switch. There's no other way to say that playing Widow like a long ranged DPS is trolling, period.


If a widow player is good when its not a good pick?
If a soldier player is good when its not a good pick?
If a sombra player is good when its not a good pick?

It's just that if there are heroes like Widow/Hanzo/Torb/Sombra in your team and you loose 99% of the time ppl will blame these instead of for example rein or soldier who has only died for stupid positioning.

The pre-attitude towards offmeta heroes is just plain retarted. Soon as some ppl see an offmeta hero they start trolling and blaming the person who picked the "wrong hero" and ofc the reporting... the report for poor teamwork even tho the widow would be doing good.

What do ppl expect from a widow player? If there is a shield yes it is hard to get a pick -> destroy the shield give the widow a space to work with
Or should the widow be getting teamkills all the time so it would be acceptable to play one.

Look at the best widows out there like Kephrii he sometimes plays rounds where he struggles to kill even 10ppl in a round and sometimes they might even be mostly assists.

Should all the heroes be like junkrat? Just close ur eyes and hold your left mouse get an ult in 10seconds and kill everyone -> repeat
Because 0.5% of the playerbase can use her property?. So you know there is a 99.5% chances the player using widow in low ranks like silver, gold or platinum will be garbage using her
12/07/2017 11:46 AMPosted by SoLIDSnAKE
Because 0.5% of the playerbase can use her property?. So you know there is a 99.5% chances the player using widow in low ranks like silver, gold or platinum will be garbage using her

I bet that's why you're stuck kappa
If widow is consistently getting 2-3 picks every single team fight making it 3v6 or 4v6, Its not widows fault if your team isnt using that advantage and dying to the leftovers.

Its not trolling when widow isnt playing frontline. Its almost like youve never even played the character.........................
I always play widow on Gibraltar attack for the first choke.
And I often keep on going seeing that my team actually pushes.
Rarely do I have to deal with a genji or winston. If so, venom mine welcomes them and I have enough time to escape then snipe the poor bastard.
Fun times. Then again, silver is silver. :)
12/07/2017 11:46 AMPosted by SoLIDSnAKE
Because 0.5% of the playerbase can use her property?. So you know there is a 99.5% chances the player using widow in low ranks like silver, gold or platinum will be garbage using her


They could be mechanically talented but just not have the game sense to climb higher, which they just need to put the time in to get.
12/07/2017 12:05 PMPosted by Mizzerella
If widow is consistently getting 2-3 picks every single team fight making it 3v6 or 4v6, Its not widows fault if your team isnt using that advantage and dying to the leftovers.

Its not trolling when widow isnt playing frontline. Its almost like youve never even played the character.........................


Top widows in North America are 3:1 KD. This does not translate to 3 elims per team fight. Widow does not contest the point and does not duel except with another widow. She's an opportunity based pick and is heavily dependent on your teammates to complete the work.

Don't get me wrong. Widow can be amazing against poorly positioned players, but the problem most folks have with widow teammates is that once folks adjust their positioning to avoid her sightlines or to stand behind a shield, her value goes from the top of the list to the bottom. At that point it is a good policy for widow to swap, but they seldom do. I can't tell you how many times I've had a widow on my team that wouldn't swap even though there was more value available from a different hero.

I swap toons based on enemy comp. When tanking I'll play Orisa/Rein if we need a shield and if the enemy swaps to counter shield then I swap to a dive Tank. Same with healers, I'll play lucio through chokes but then swap to mercy for more midfight sustain. When I play dps, I'll play soldier if we need consistent damage, and swap to mei for stall, or junkrat for shieldbreak.

Rock/Paper/Scissors is not winnable if you only pick scissors all the time.
12/07/2017 12:58 PMPosted by Rhae

Rock/Paper/Scissors is not winnable if you only pick scissors all the time.


This isn't rock, paper, scissors though. Counters aren't instant wins, skill is definitely a factor, a widow can easily deal with a Winston, Genji, dva, and or tracer if their skill and experience levels are high enough.

As for that rotation to avoid sightlines, that's a benefit of widow. If they're avoiding your sightlines you control a large area of space for your team, it's then your team's job to occupy that space to force the enemy team to fight somewhere they don't want to. Once the team is applying pressure you move up and zone them further. Even if you're not getting any kills, if the enemy team is avoiding your sightlines out of fear, your team has an advantage, if you switch as soon as they move out of your sightlines you lose that zoning ability.
12/06/2017 10:38 AMPosted by Sexycrab
Yes, the Widow in the video does have good accuracy and has some good plays as well, but it doesn't matter because EFFECTIVE eliminations and damage are what matters.


Yeah, and all the area she denies just by exisisting is completely useless too, clearly.

12/06/2017 10:38 AMPosted by Sexycrab
Widowmakers are only effective they get picks before a fight, or during a fight, NOT AFTER A FIGHT. Looking at pro replays of Widow, they start a fight by securing a good vantage point, like on top of the wall in Hanamura, and then get picks. If the pro gets a pick or two, its basically a won fight.


No, they usually start way off untill their team can create enough space for them, at which they take some good angles, deny space for the enemy while their team tries to force them into the LOS of the widow.

If you can't see how good the ability to deny large portions of the map unless you have a shield to hide behind, then boy.

You don't need to get an amazing amount of picks, as long as people can create space for you or capitalize on the space you create for them.
12/07/2017 01:13 PMPosted by SSJ3500


This isn't rock, paper, scissors though. Counters aren't instant wins, skill is definitely a factor, a widow can easily deal with a Winston, Genji, dva, and or tracer if their skill and experience levels are high enough.

As for that rotation to avoid sightlines, that's a benefit of widow. If they're avoiding your sightlines you control a large area of space for your team, it's then your team's job to occupy that space to force the enemy team to fight somewhere they don't want to. Once the team is applying pressure you move up and zone them further. Even if you're not getting any kills, if the enemy team is avoiding your sightlines out of fear, your team has an advantage, if you switch as soon as they move out of your sightlines you lose that zoning ability.


You are correct, however a shield counters that benefit. If there is an enemy widow with any skill at all (rare at my level and below). I take a shield and ignore the widow > win the 6v5 > peek as rein and let my healers build ult while the widow takes shots at me.

If the other tank takes a shield I'll take dva and dive that same widow. I force her off of her perch unless she is so far back that she is not reachable without me being too far out of position. If she is that far back, then she's not really denying all that space.

Only exception to this is on ruins. Where the sightline is nearly spawn to spawn. Honestly I always give my widow teamates the benfit of the doubt. I don't want you to pick something random when you feel widow is the best option, but I also expect you to be honest enough with yourself to recognize when you are getting no value and swap. I don't think that is too much to ask.
12/06/2017 11:48 AMPosted by Mitsuha
if your widow is getting picks and the other 5 people on the team dont push on those picks it isnt the widows fault


That's a pretty narrow outlook. Many times, Widow gets picks AFTER the team wipes, especially when defending.

OF COURSE it's easy for Widow to get kills when the enemy team is ALREADY on the point. They're just standing there waiting to cap it. But turning a 5v1 to a 3v1 doesn't really mean much.

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