Mercy PTR changes are not needed.

General Discussion
This is going to get hilarious.

/grabs popcorn.
12/06/2017 07:37 PMPosted by Whiskeyjack
12/06/2017 07:32 PMPosted by Kryptsm
So what they want is just to reduce every healer into a heal bot, then!

I mean after all supports are slaves of the DPS. They aren't allowed to get kills, they aren't allowed to deny any kills. All they can do is heal and heal and heal and die really easily.

Sounds fun, right?


Mercy is literally the only healbot. The newest support, Moria, is almost as much as a DPS as Zenyatta is. Supports bring an incredible amount of utility and it has barely every been nerfed (and another support's utility has usually been buffed to compensate). You're just ignoring facts to fit your bias.

And yet all day on these forums I see "Moira's orbs are op" "whats up with Moira's damage"

Like you can't deny that there ARE people who think all supports should be heal bots. Because I see them EVERY. DAY. on these forums.

Also my post was mostly a joke. Could you not tell?
It's how cheap and easy she is to play right now. Resurrect as a cooldown ability will ALWAYS be too powerful. It's not earned anymore, and it took away SO much skill from Mercy.


How do you figure that it took skill away from her...? It was an incredibly one dimensional "decision" that you used once every 2-3 minutes. There was very little skill involved with the old rez. I'm not saying that the new one is (much) more skillful, but saying that she's "SO" much less skillful now is untrue.
I agree, Mercy is fine as she is, A nerf may be discussed, But a buff is just a ridicule thought, Her value and EASE to get that value are not up to scale of other support heroes.
12/06/2017 07:44 PMPosted by Whiskeyjack
How do you figure that it took skill away from her...? It was an incredibly one dimensional "decision" that you used once every 2-3 minutes. There was very little skill involved with the old rez. I'm not saying that the new one is (much) more skillful, but saying that she's "SO" much less skillful now is untrue.


Because Resurrect was EARNED through healing your teammates. When a single-target Rez is available to use RIGHT at the beginning of battle, it takes away the skill and strategy of knowing who to Rez, WHEN to Rez, keeping track of enemy ults, and so on.

When it's just a cooldown ability, it takes away the strategic part of Resurrect.
12/06/2017 07:35 PMPosted by Ankylosaurus
I used to be a Zarya one trick, that's why I despise one tricks, I know how harmful they are.
I play Zarya Soldier Mccree Widow Tracer Ana Zen Sombra and Reaper.


There were tons of games in season 3(when I first hit master) where Zarya was the only hero I was good on, and the enemy team just ran double hitscan vs me and I couldn't do much. I lost games for my team by not being able to swap.
12/06/2017 07:42 PMPosted by Kryptsm
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Mercy is literally the only healbot. The newest support, Moria, is almost as much as a DPS as Zenyatta is. Supports bring an incredible amount of utility and it has barely every been nerfed (and another support's utility has usually been buffed to compensate). You're just ignoring facts to fit your bias.

And yet all day on these forums I see "Moira's orbs are op" "whats up with Moira's damage"

Like you can't deny that there ARE people who think all supports should be heal bots. Because I see them EVERY. DAY. on these forums.

Also my post was mostly a joke. Could you not tell?


I mean like people complain about pretty much anything on these forums. Plus I don't think they want supports to be healbots, they just get countered by Moria and complain. It's like seeing a post about people complaining about Soldier doing too much damage and replying, "OMG THAT MEANS THAT PEOPLE WANT SOLDIER TO BE A BIOTIC FIELD BOT1!!!" The people in the post were wrong, perhaps, but you're greatly exaggerating what they want.

Of course you made a joke, but how does that change the point behind it?
12/06/2017 07:47 PMPosted by fayescarlet
Because Resurrect was EARNED through healing your teammates. When a single-target Rez is available to use RIGHT at the beginning of battle, it takes away the skill and strategy of knowing who to Rez, WHEN to Rez, keeping track of enemy ults, and so on.


All of those things literally apply to the new ultimate as well, you know. The resurrect on an E ability is just a flat buff to whatever skill she required before.
12/06/2017 07:24 PMPosted by Ankylosaurus
mercy still is being picked near universally.


You mean like Tracer? But at least in Mercy's case it makes sense because there are only 3 main healers and she's the easiest one. Tracer has near 100% pickrate and she's just one out of 10+ dps choices.
12/06/2017 07:28 PMPosted by fayescarlet
I wonder if, maybe, just maybe, turning a powerful ultimate into a cooldown ability....WASN'T a success. :O The dev team, wrong?! Unthinkable...


Dont criticize the dev team, or you'll get banned regardless of whether its constructive or not, i know because i have been perma banned already from it, then banned again yestarday, all because these snowflakes cannot take constructive non filtered criticism that was in the direction of improving the game and the experience for everyone but they dont care to do that regardless because they have proven they dont want to, not even worth the criticism at this point, wont be spending a penny for the whole duration of playing this game although i stopped after my first ban, i just dont have the patience anymore, no wonder you have so many frustrated players, you cause it all...
12/06/2017 07:58 PMPosted by FrostYo
12/06/2017 07:24 PMPosted by Ankylosaurus
mercy still is being picked near universally.


You mean like Tracer? But at least in Mercy's case it makes sense because there are only 3 main healers and she's the easiest one. Tracer has near 100% pickrate and she's just one out of 10+ dps choices.

Tracer also has a high pickrate, but the meta was never defined because of her. I know the game is balanced around her, but her viability doesn't really affect that of other heroes.

You would think a mercy and zen would have a lower pickrate if tracer was meta defining, as she easily can pick them. Nope.
12/06/2017 07:24 PMPosted by Ankylosaurus
If you are currently watching the team comps from OWL so far, mercy still is being picked near universally. She absolutely does not need any buffs.

In fact, she still probably needs a nerf.


I dunno about nerfs, it's a bit early to say that. Let the dust settle with Moira, Ana buffs, and the Mercy nerfs for a month of data collection before we can really say that. She doesn't need any buffs though.

She's picked because she's one of the safest, and most reliable healers with a large healing output, and universally viable. Ana too easily countered by dive, Lucio and Zen aren't picked primarily for their healing output, but rather their other qualities, while Moira is really new and also pretty heavily hampered by the dive tanks Winston and D.Va. So, yeah Mercy is the easy safe pick that you are sure will probably work as your primary healer.

12/06/2017 07:42 PMPosted by Kryptsm

Like you can't deny that there ARE people who think all supports should be heal bots. Because I see them EVERY. DAY. on these forums.


God I hope that never happens. The day a hero cannot at least make a go at defending itself is the day that hero stops belonging in the game as far as I'm concerned.
12/06/2017 08:07 PMPosted by CheatinTom
12/06/2017 07:24 PMPosted by Ankylosaurus
If you are currently watching the team comps from OWL so far, mercy still is being picked near universally. She absolutely does not need any buffs.

In fact, she still probably needs a nerf.


I dunno about nerfs, it's a bit early to say that. Let the dust settle with Moira, Ana buffs, and the Mercy nerfs for a month of data collection before we can really say that. She doesn't need any buffs though.

She's picked because she's one of the safest, and most reliable healers with a large healing output, and universally viable. Ana too easily countered by dive, Lucio and Zen aren't picked primarily for their healing output, but rather their other qualities, while Moira is really new and also pretty heavily hampered by the dive tanks Winston and D.Va. So, yeah Mercy is the easy safe pick that you are sure will probably work as your primary healer.


"Universally viable" is the issue.
I'm sure we've beaten this horse to death.

And then it gets rezzed.

And then it gets beaten to death again

Then another Mercy rezzes it...

And the cycle continues...
12/06/2017 07:33 PMPosted by Blam320
Remember when Mercy was obsolete because Ana was so meta-definingly powerful?

Good times.

Honestly, if we start using Moira as a benchmark, we could hit a good balance between the three primary healers very quickly.


I just want to clarify that Mercy being obsolete was a PC-only problem. Mercy was still the highest picked Support across all tiers during Season 3 on console.

Ana has always been either a decent pick or an outright detrimental pick on console, she's never really been THE healer.

Keep in mind that whatever ends up changing on PC, ends up changing on console as well. Ana has always been a topic of contention in terms of console and keeping an open mind to ALL platforms helps.
Nope, these are necessary. Her rez is practically unusable in the state it's in on the live servers. And the last thing she needs is another nerf. In fact, she doesn't need one.
12/06/2017 10:19 PMPosted by KiraJustice0
Nope, these are necessary. Her rez is practically unusable in the state it's in on the live servers. And the last thing she needs is another nerf. In fact, she doesn't need one.
Not unusable at all. I hate to say it but... Mad cuz bad?
12/06/2017 07:35 PMPosted by Trash
12/06/2017 07:33 PMPosted by Blam320
Remember when Mercy was obsolete because Ana was so meta-definingly powerful?

Good times.

Apparently a lot of people don't remember, or just choose to forget for the sake of an argument.


I get downvoted everytime i mention that Ana LITERALLY made a WHOLE meta around HER only

the mercy "meta" was only a mercy on both teams

the Ana meta was Ana and 3 tanks on both teams.

THAT is way worse.
12/06/2017 08:09 PMPosted by Ankylosaurus
"Universally viable" is the issue.


But there are DPS and Tanks that are also universally viable.

S76 is one of the most commonly picked DPS in the entire game, he has mobility, and healing that's better than 2 supports while it's down, and damage that isn't to sneeze at.

D.va can work in majority of comps as well. We say her in 3tank, dive, and this weird Junkrat amalgamation meta we're in right now. She's the most picked tank right now, and within the last 6 months.

Should we nerf them so they aren't as useful? Should we nerf Soldier's damage and self-heal? Should we nerf D.va's ability to move around the map so she can be where she needs to be when she needs to and have the ability to decide what to do?

I don't think so, they're in a pretty good place. It's not Mercy's "she's good with pretty much anything" -ness. We see that across all classes.

Mercy is now in this weird spot because we have this new healer where the people are learning the most effective ways to play Moira, and getting used to rez like 2.5 or whatever it is we're on now. A lot of Mercy players I've talked to feel like this change in rez is putting it back where it was a year ago, trading her life for another which means her rez is once again tied to her ult but for less impactful results.

My rez count now is back where it was pre-rework which I am happy for, but the impact I am used to having with rez is completely gone and if majority of my rez's are coming from my ult anyways, why not just revert the changes but tweak ult-rez?
Man, with all the talk of nerf/buff with mercy I still just...I feel like people are going to take this the wrong way, like as a euphemism for "nerf mercy" (which isn't what I'm saying here), but like I said on another post I feel like we're just clinging to rez out of habit.

Clearly having one's kill resurrected is no fun for the other person, but forget about that right now; does rez really feel that great for Mercy now even? They can't make rez less valuable itself, so all they can do is make it come up less and make it more cumbersome to use.
I'm positive there has to be something else, some other unique support ability that could be more agile/cd quicker to fit mercy's active playstyle while still having a very strong and immediate effect, while also fitting a bit better into OW in general...cause it at least appears most players, mercy and otherwise, agree that in terms of both fun and balance it's all been downhill since rez stopped being an ult, but let's face it, they aren't gonna revert it...
And of course it's like...yeah, rez is ok, but why relegate ourselves to "ok"?

But I can't speak with any authority about how mercy players feel. Mercy is really the only support I don't play (long ago gave her up when I realized people love take their frustration out on her).

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