Are SR, Matchmaking, and MMR Rigged?

Competitive Discussion
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12/27/2017 04:51 PMPosted by Trashyatta
I don't get why people call answers they don't want to hear "troll responses." I placed bronze at level 25 season 5 when I first got the game. Solo queued to silver after I lowered my graphics settings and improved my aim. Afterwards I duo queued with a friend who also did not belong at his rank and got to 2800 within the same season. Scratched diamond season 6 and maintained 3200 season 7.

People talking about carrying don't mean that you should 1v6 the enemy. It means that if you're significantly better than your opponents, you will win almost all of your games. I currently have a mercy only account in gold and as I get better I feel like I have a very high impact on whether or not the team wins as I've gotten better.

Here is a few pieces of advice.

1) Focus on constantly improving. You can't fix your teammates but you can fix yourself. If you learn to recognize your own mistakes and not make them, you will start to recognize enemy mistakes and punish them for it.

2) Stay alive as much as you can. You don't have to worry about chasing stats or overextending with other members of your team. If you're alive, you can deal damage, contest the point, charge your ult, charge your support ults, etc. If you're dead, you watch your team try to win a fight without you. If you make plays and never really die, you're gonna win 90% of your games.

3) Get good at aiming. I don't mean this in a troll way, this is probably the best thing ANY player can do for themselves. Go to the training range, find a sensitivity that works for you, get a bigger mouse pad if you need, lower graphics settings to get higher fps, etc. Whatever you can do to improve your aim will be worth it. I used to die all the time in situations I shouldn't have because my aim was bad. Good aim will bail you out of poor positioning and bad game sense 1000x more than good positioning and good game sense will bail you out of bad aim.


In this game you are only as good as your team is. Skill rating has nothing to do with that. You can't tell me your skill is better because you won.. I'm sure you won plenty of games you did poorly in.. so why are you getting a sr gain adjustment when you win and have doon poorly? That makes no sense no matter which way you try wording it.
12/27/2017 12:24 PMPosted by iAMSent1nel
12/27/2017 12:14 PMPosted by ĀĦĶ
Post a video of your gameplay, and folks will be able to point out mistakes.

ELO isn't rigged, and you should be able to solo carry yourself out of most games if you are truly a gold level of player. If you're not, then you belong where you are at.


You can solo carry in this game? That is the furthest from the truth.. you cannot go into a 1v2 or more.. when was the last time you took on a 600hp character that can heal himself for 300 and take on a reaper, or even a zen.. you cannot solo in this game no matter how good you are. Even if you have a ult 100% of the time against a team of 6 you would still lose.

This is the sort of comments that make this game so toxic. Stop making people believe if your that good you can carry yourself out of bronze or even gold and plat if your "That good" with a crappy team.


Solo carrying is not about 1v6ing the enemy team, it is about being a dominant force within the match, which is absolutely possible.

When your entire team is complaining how the enemy tracer or soldier is destroying them, that player is carrying the enemy team.

Of course not every character has this kind of potential, but there are a few that do and they should utilised in the lower ranks if you wish to climb.
12/27/2017 05:12 PMPosted by ectozar
12/27/2017 12:24 PMPosted by iAMSent1nel
...

You can solo carry in this game? That is the furthest from the truth.. you cannot go into a 1v2 or more.. when was the last time you took on a 600hp character that can heal himself for 300 and take on a reaper, or even a zen.. you cannot solo in this game no matter how good you are. Even if you have a ult 100% of the time against a team of 6 you would still lose.

This is the sort of comments that make this game so toxic. Stop making people believe if your that good you can carry yourself out of bronze or even gold and plat if your "That good" with a crappy team.


Solo carrying is not about 1v6ing the enemy team, it is about being a dominant force within the match, which is absolutely possible.

When your entire team is complaining how the enemy tracer or soldier is destroying them, that player is carrying the enemy team.

Of course not every character has this kind of potential, but there are a few that do and they should utilised in the lower ranks if you wish to climb.


Okay... once again what are you not understanding by explain to me how you think a win should adjust your skill rating and a loss shouldn't.

Are you telling me even if you get a loss you haven't played better then a game that you won in?

You don't understand that a win doesn't mean that you have gotten better in skill. I'm also sure that you have played really poorly had a really bad game and your team still won the match.. Do you really believe in that situation you deserved your Skill Rating to go up 20 points?

There for all your ranks are flawed.
12/27/2017 05:08 PMPosted by iAMSent1nel

In this game you are only as good as your team is. Skill rating has nothing to do with that. You can't tell me your skill is better because you won.. I'm sure you won plenty of games you did poorly in.. so why are you getting a sr gain adjustment when you win and have doon poorly? That makes no sense no matter which way you try wording it.

You severely underestimate the impact that a single player has on whether the team wins or loses. People complain when they get a thrower on their team or when there's a Smurf on the other team stomping them. If I were playing my best heroes in bronze, silver, or gold I would absolutely annihilate everyone.

Skill rating obviously has some meaning. As your SR increases, you'll have better teammates on average and better enemies on average. If you aren't as good as them you will drop. If you're having a bad day and playing poorly, you'll drop. If you're having a severely unlucky day, you will drop. And vice versa.

I tend to win most of my games where I play very well and lose most of my games I play very poorly. When I play average games my team tends to dictate whether I win or lose a lot more.

I think your idea that you should not gain skill rating for a win where you performed poorly is very bad/dangerous. If you roll the enemies and never get a chance to do anything, does that mean you're bad and shouldn't win? If you didn't accomplish much but kept a few enemies distracted every fight which made it easier for your team to win, does that mean you shouldn't win? Even if you play a bad game and get carried, it'll all balance out. You get sunk just like you get carried
12/27/2017 04:51 PMPosted by Trashyatta
I don't get why people call answers they don't want to hear "troll responses." I placed bronze at level 25 season 5 when I first got the game. Solo queued to silver after I lowered my graphics settings and improved my aim. Afterwards I duo queued with a friend who also did not belong at his rank and got to 2800 within the same season. Scratched diamond season 6 and maintained 3200 season 7.

People talking about carrying don't mean that you should 1v6 the enemy. It means that if you're significantly better than your opponents, you will win almost all of your games. I currently have a mercy only account in gold and as I get better I feel like I have a very high impact on whether or not the team wins as I've gotten better.

Here is a few pieces of advice.

1) Focus on constantly improving. You can't fix your teammates but you can fix yourself. If you learn to recognize your own mistakes and not make them, you will start to recognize enemy mistakes and punish them for it.

2) Stay alive as much as you can. You don't have to worry about chasing stats or overextending with other members of your team. If you're alive, you can deal damage, contest the point, charge your ult, charge your support ults, etc. If you're dead, you watch your team try to win a fight without you. If you make plays and never really die, you're gonna win 90% of your games.

3) Get good at aiming. I don't mean this in a troll way, this is probably the best thing ANY player can do for themselves. Go to the training range, find a sensitivity that works for you, get a bigger mouse pad if you need, lower graphics settings to get higher fps, etc. Whatever you can do to improve your aim will be worth it. I used to die all the time in situations I shouldn't have because my aim was bad. Good aim will bail you out of poor positioning and bad game sense 1000x more than good positioning and good game sense will bail you out of bad aim.


Thanks for the tips dude. I'll try lowering my graphic settings. That's a great suggestion. I have them on high and probably can drop that to medium for more consistenty and less distraction.

In an earlier post I mentioned my stats are getting better (linearly) and I'm still consistently losing. It's because a support cannot tilt odds as much as a DPS hero can. A support can only keep people who are winning the game alive. Thing is, I don't have fun playing DPS and I can't track well, I'm much better at flicking. I'm starting to learn mcree in quickplay but his learning curve is huge to even touch him in competitive.
12/27/2017 05:25 PMPosted by Trashyatta
12/27/2017 05:08 PMPosted by iAMSent1nel

In this game you are only as good as your team is. Skill rating has nothing to do with that. You can't tell me your skill is better because you won.. I'm sure you won plenty of games you did poorly in.. so why are you getting a sr gain adjustment when you win and have doon poorly? That makes no sense no matter which way you try wording it.

You severely underestimate the impact that a single player has on whether the team wins or loses. People complain when they get a thrower on their team or when there's a Smurf on the other team stomping them. If I were playing my best heroes in bronze, silver, or gold I would absolutely annihilate everyone.

Skill rating obviously has some meaning. As your SR increases, you'll have better teammates on average and better enemies on average. If you aren't as good as them you will drop. If you're having a bad day and playing poorly, you'll drop. If you're having a severely unlucky day, you will drop. And vice versa.

I tend to win most of my games where I play very well and lose most of my games I play very poorly. When I play average games my team tends to dictate whether I win or lose a lot more.

I think your idea that you should not gain skill rating for a win where you performed poorly is very bad/dangerous. If you roll the enemies and never get a chance to do anything, does that mean you're bad and shouldn't win? If you didn't accomplish much but kept a few enemies distracted every fight which made it easier for your team to win, does that mean you shouldn't win? Even if you play a bad game and get carried, it'll all balance out. You get sunk just like you get carried


Let me explain something to you. When you create a brand new account to use in competitive, quick play 1-25. Wether you win or lose the system is calculating your MMR. What you deemed is so dangerous for the game it's doing exactly that. Do you really think it gives you a SR based on what games you won and lost in placements ?

So then why should it only give you a SR adjustment gain during a win in competitive?
12/27/2017 05:37 PMPosted by zZz

Thanks for the tips dude. I'll try lowering my graphic settings. That's a great suggestion. I have them on high and probably can drop that to medium for more consistenty and less distraction.

In an earlier post I mentioned my stats are getting better (linearly) and I'm still consistently losing. It's because a support cannot tilt odds as much as a DPS hero can. A support can only keep people who are winning the game alive. Thing is, I don't have fun playing DPS and I can't track well, I'm much better at flicking. I'm starting to learn mcree in quickplay but his learning curve is huge to even touch him in competitive.

A McCree is only as good as his aim. I personally think he's the best hero to play for getting better at aiming. If you get good at aiming with ana you can 3 shot people who are out of position and give clutch heals for your team.

Last thing, playing to improve instead of playing to gain SR was one of the best things I did for myself. I found the game much more enjoyable and felt like I had a much easier time climbing after I did it for long enough.

I hope you have fun playing and do your best at getting better at the game. Good luck!
12/27/2017 05:37 PMPosted by zZz

Thanks for the tips dude. I'll try lowering my graphic settings. That's a great suggestion. I have them on high and probably can drop that to medium for more consistenty and less distraction.

Go even further, turn everything to low. The game still looks great but you will get maximum performance out of your machine. Even if you have a beast PC, its best to turn all settings to low for best overall performance, reducing input lag, removing things within the match that will only distract you like certain effects and lighting etc.

You may want to looking up something like "best performance settings for Overwatch" and follow the guides.

Remember, the slightest frame drop within a match can be the difference between winning and losing a team fight.
12/27/2017 05:43 PMPosted by iAMSent1nel

Let me explain something to you. When you create a brand new account to use in competitive, quick play 1-25. Wether you win or lose the system is calculating your MMR. What you deemed is so dangerous for the game it's doing exactly that. Do you really think it gives you a SR based on what games you won and lost in placements ?

So then why should it only give you a SR adjustment gain during a win in competitive?

The effect of quickplay MMR on your very first competitive placements is overrated. Whether or not you win or lose your first few placements is way more important for your initial ranking. Most people's first placement game is around gold elo (after having 3 accounts with super varying quickplay MMR, I say this with confidence). If you win, you'll play people a ton higher the next game, if you lose, you play people a ton lower. This repeats until the game thinks you're somewhere around the right place, sometimes it's right sometimes it's wrong. I honestly can't understand half of what you're saying because it doesn't make any sense, but I believe that there is no correlation between quickplay and competitive MMR after your first placements, and there's probably very little before then.
I'm thinking about uninstalling the game because of the crap matchmaking. I'm getting tired of always being matched with the worst of the worst every game I play in comp. Sure I'm in bronze but always being matched with people who just don't want to work as a team has gotten old. Most of the people I'm matched with just don't care and think it's quick play. That's why I play ranked to get away from quick play. I try to win but all they care about is that they get to play who they want even if it isn't working. I can't believe in all this time they haven't fixed this crap. I guess they just don't care.
12/27/2017 06:01 AMPosted by Kaawumba
I got out of bronze (after being there for several seasons)

It should not take several seasons to get out of bronze. My brother is a bronze player and whenever I sit beside him and coach him he wins. You don't have to be good at anything to win in bronze. You need to know when you can/can't get a frag and just go for as many frags as you can while playing the objective.

I've noticed this trend as well. In fact I recently reached my peak and got a leaver immediately next game, so I lost 25 sr for no reason. Then the VERY NEXT GAME we win 3-1 and I get 4 sr. My sr went down to no fault of my own. In other games you could counteract a leaver penalty with 1-2 games. NOT overwatch! I would need more than 6 WINS IN A ROW at that sr gain just to get back to where I was. I don't know how I feel about these "forced loss streaks" but the game sure does seem to punish by making climbing harder and harder even if you are winning.
12/27/2017 05:37 PMPosted by zZz

Thanks for the tips dude. I'll try lowering my graphic settings. That's a great suggestion. I have them on high and probably can drop that to medium for more consistenty and less distraction.

In an earlier post I mentioned my stats are getting better (linearly) and I'm still consistently losing. It's because a support cannot tilt odds as much as a DPS hero can. A support can only keep people who are winning the game alive. Thing is, I don't have fun playing DPS and I can't track well, I'm much better at flicking. I'm starting to learn mcree in quickplay but his learning curve is huge to even touch him in competitive.


Iostux has a perfect video on OW settings. Just Youtube Iostux Game Settings. (Has Sim in the title).

Biggest thing I can tell you as a support is improve your game sense. Where are you positioned? Are you making it difficult for the enemy to reach you? Are you engaging in a 4v6?

Specifically for Ana:

1. Are you using your nade when you don't need to?
2. Are you blowing nano boosts in fights already lost (or won)?
3. Are you improving at landing your sleep darts under duress? Are you saving your sleep darts for easy to hit targets and/or players who are directly threatening you?

Specifically for Mercy:

1. Are you invisible or un-hittable by the enemy team for 90% of team fights?
2. Are you rezzing only when you are 100% sure you cannot be killed or interrupted?
3. Are you prioritizing rezzes on Tanks/Supports or very good DPS?
4. Are you using Valkryie during team fights? Are you avoiding using it in team fights that are already lost (or won)?

Specifically for Reinhardt:

1. Are you ONLY charging when there's a wall directly behind your target, or when the team fight has ALREADY broken out?
2. Are you aiming Fire Strikes for large targets for maximum Earthshatter charge (don't chase Genjis with it)
3. Are you positioning yourself near cover so you can charge your shield easily? Are you communicating when you need to drop your shield?
4. Are you earth-shattering when the team fight is already lost (or won)?

Specifically for Soldier 76:

1. Are you taking high ground?
2. Are you using your biotic field to assist friendly players (especially your supports)
3. Are you FINISHING players with Helix rocket, not STARTING your shooting with it?
4. Are you targetting Supports and DPS, not tanks? (Only prioritize tanks when they are out of position, and easy to pick off).
5. Are you Visoring when team fight is already lost (or won)?

Specifically for Moira:

1. Are you keeping your orbs parallel to the ground (not launching them up into the air)?
2. Are you prioritizing healing orbs over damage orbs in team fights (not always important, but a good general rule)?
3. Are you prioritizing your damage beam on flanking DPS and not enemy shields?
4. Are you using Coallessence to initialize team fights, or are you blowing it when the team fight is already lost (or won)? It does NOT counter Enemy Ultimates (Dragonblade, Grav, etc).
5. Are you using Fade to remove yourself from danger? Only when you are COMPLETELY safe do you use it to position yourself quickly

Specifically for Lucio:

1. Are you in heal song when people need healing (90% of the time in team fights)?
2. Are you communicating when you are using speed boost (to start team fights)?
3. Are you amping ONLY when people need healing?
4. Are you using Sound Barrier when team fights are already lost (or won)?
5. Are you focusing on using your offensive and booping skills on your team, or are you wall-riding?

Just a few of your most played characters. It really would help if you could video a game and post it. Some game sense suggestions would probably really help.

Best of luck, my friend!
12/27/2017 06:16 PMPosted by ChaosDragon
12/27/2017 06:01 AMPosted by Kaawumba
I got out of bronze (after being there for several seasons)

It should not take several seasons to get out of bronze. My brother is a bronze player and whenever I sit beside him and coach him he wins. You don't have to be good at anything to win in bronze. You need to know when you can/can't get a frag and just go for as many frags as you can while playing the objective.

I've noticed this trend as well. In fact I recently reached my peak and got a leaver immediately next game, so I lost 25 sr for no reason. Then the VERY NEXT GAME we win 3-1 and I get 4 sr. My sr went down to no fault of my own. In other games you could counteract a leaver penalty with 1-2 games. NOT overwatch! I would need more than 6 WINS IN A ROW at that sr gain just to get back to where I was. I don't know how I feel about these "forced loss streaks" but the game sure does seem to punish by making climbing harder and harder even if you are winning.

I've heard that there's a glitch where sometimes if you leave after the timer runs out the minus 25 sr penalty applies to next game as well. That has to be what happens when you gain 2 or 4 SR the game after someone on your team leaves. This glitch seems to not be well known but it's totally legit in some way, had it happen to me once and seen tons of people make the same complaint you just made.
It's rigged. You can PLAINLY see the forced streaks happening.
12/27/2017 05:54 PMPosted by ectozar
12/27/2017 05:37 PMPosted by zZz

Thanks for the tips dude. I'll try lowering my graphic settings. That's a great suggestion. I have them on high and probably can drop that to medium for more consistenty and less distraction.


Go even further, turn everything to low. The game still looks great but you will get maximum performance out of your machine. Even if you have a beast PC, its best to turn all settings to low for best overall performance, reducing input lag, removing things within the match that will only distract you like certain effects and lighting etc.

You may want to looking up something like "best performance settings for Overwatch" and follow the guides.

Remember, the slightest frame drop within a match can be the difference between winning and losing a team fight.


Thanks man!! Doing this now.
I am only answering for Ana since the post is quite long. But much appreciated for taking time and analyzing my profile.

12/27/2017 05:37 PMPosted by zZz

Thanks for the tips dude. I'll try lowering my graphic settings. That's a great suggestion. I have them on high and probably can drop that to medium for more consistenty and less distraction.

In an earlier post I mentioned my stats are getting better (linearly) and I'm still consistently losing. It's because a support cannot tilt odds as much as a DPS hero can. A support can only keep people who are winning the game alive. Thing is, I don't have fun playing DPS and I can't track well, I'm much better at flicking. I'm starting to learn mcree in quickplay but his learning curve is huge to even touch him in competitive.


Specifically for Ana:

1. Are you using your nade when you don't need to?

-- Sometimes. I don't miss important nades anymore but I still use it to heal myself which I know is wrong. When I do, I make sure to jump into my tanks and use it to heal myself and boost healing on the tanks just in case they start getting focus fired.
2. Are you blowing nano boosts in fights already lost (or won)?
-- Very very rarely. My nanoboosts are typically on spot. Sometimes I favor giving it to the tanks too much when I know it would be better off for DPS heros. But giving a nano to a bronze DPS can be risky. Rein/Winston are usually net me the best results. However Reaper, Genji (ult), Soldier, or Charged Zarya are what I'm looking for the most.
3. Are you improving at landing your sleep darts under duress? Are you saving your sleep darts for easy to hit targets and/or players who are directly threatening you?
-- Sleep dart aim is my biggest weakness. I'm working on it practicing a lot in custom games. I typically hit tanks ez, bastion ez, reaper ez. I can never hit genji or tracer which is killing my game and increasing my death toll.

[/quote]

Also, something you didn't mention but I have trouble with.
I have a hard time healing when my team is behind shields (orisa, winston, rein).
Having to quickly reposition myself is difficult and by the time I do, my teammates are either super low or dead. I found the best way around that is communication with my mates. I used to follow in behind the shield and nade the floor. But that typically ends up in my death. So I quickly stopped.
It's become a joke. You can log on KNOWING if it's going to be a forced winning day or forced losing day.

When it's predictable, the system is FORCING IT.

Honestly, just fire who ever thought it was a good idea to control people's destiny in a game like this. Fire them and save your game, because it's become a joke.
@ZZZ

Sounds good, my friend. Glad to be of help.

Nothing wrong with using nade to heal yourself, especially between fights. If you're the only healer, it's a necessity, as keeping yourself up is the most important thing, period.

On a similar note, communicate your team to stay close to you, but (as you said) don't chase them too much. It's better for 1 person to die because he overextends, than you both to die, and your team wipes because they have no heals. Communicate to them, but let them die to their mistakes, because you are more concerned about what YOU are doing right as a whole. It's good to practice this in QP as well.
Just wanted to share my own experience here which I find pretty interesting. I moved from low bronze to mid silver on this account. When I was right below 1500, I noticed that I was staying there for quite a long time (ie. my SR kept fluctuating right below the 1500 mark). No matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't move past 1500. Interestingly once I moved past 1500, it was a smooth ride to mid silver. In fact it felt really easy after passing 1500.

I also have another account. After placement on that account (lost first 4 and then won the next 6), I was placed mid-gold and have been moving up slowly ever since. Still pretty smooth and nothing like when I was right below 1500.

My point is that I think luck could be a big factor in all this, as well as skills of course, but not purely based on skills. Oh one thing I should add is that I solo Q most of the time so maybe that's why? I don't really know.

Another thing I noticed was that in both accounts, whenever my win rate rises over 60% the system seems to want to push me back down to mid-50s. I do believe Blizzard that this is not intentional but it surely feels that way. Reading these posts, it appears many here went through similar experience.
you may be better than your SR but your MMR is whats keeping you back. i myself have the same problem now. my MMR was lower than my SR after a few major win streaks and i was hit hard. from 2890 to 2200. The worst part is i was playing in solo que so its not like i was even boosted. i'm currently working on a new profile to see if i get placed any higher than gold

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