The Mercy Nerfs are Absolutely Needed for Competitive Play

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01/05/2018 01:09 PMPosted by WildElements
01/05/2018 12:53 PMPosted by EmeraldSheep
I really like this thread. Mercy was going to ruin OWL. A hero like mercy doesn’t deserve to be in every single game in OWL
And what hero WOULD deserve it? Your answer should be none. You should be wanting flexibility and diversity in this game, even at the pro level.


How is an 88% pickrate in professional Overwatch "flexibility"??? The reason they nerfed Mercy in the first place is so that other heroes like Ana and Moira will actually be seen in Competitive.
01/05/2018 01:09 PMPosted by WildElements
01/05/2018 12:53 PMPosted by EmeraldSheep
I really like this thread. Mercy was going to ruin OWL. A hero like mercy doesn’t deserve to be in every single game in OWL
And what hero WOULD deserve it? Your answer should be none. You should be wanting flexibility and diversity in this game, even at the pro level.

And for the record, Mercy mains didn’t want her in every game either. We, just like everyone else, don’t want her OP. We just want her fun. Like she was before the rework where she was super fun but by no means a must-pick.


How's the dps/tank pickrate looking? Any high percentages there? I feel like I've seen the same 4 dps played since this game started... I guess that's different.
01/05/2018 01:08 PMPosted by darkseid117
01/05/2018 12:53 PMPosted by EmeraldSheep
I really like this thread. Mercy was going to ruin OWL. A hero like mercy doesn’t deserve to be in every single game in OWL


Glad someone in this thread gets it.

01/05/2018 12:58 PMPosted by Silentstrike
So if Mercy 1.0 was so strong, why did not one professional OW team run her? Because she was considered garbage... even with the ability to mass res... because surprise, Resurrect ultimate wasn’t nearly as powerful overall as other support ults and kits. If it were SO strong, why did every professional team call her a joke and troll pick?

Why is it fair that McCree or Reaper can just hide and ult and get a 6-man kill with one ult? Because ults. Are. Powerful. Mercy getting a full team res was about as rare as Reaper getting one. But people blew it out of proportion.

Resurrect ultimate was a sheer joke, but now that it is gone, it somehow became the most powerful thing even though there are countless amounts of videos talking about how crap of a hero she was. Hmm...


Did you even watch professional Overwatch before??? Sure she wasn't a must-pick like she is now, but she was definitely still used. Most often in Pharah + Mercy situations. And you know what the pros did back when she had her old ultimate? They would use it resurrect one or two people. If the Pharah in the Pharmercy died, then she would tempo rez the Pharah. If someone got picked, they would use it to bring them back. You very rarely saw full team resurrects. Blizzard likely saw the potential in her being used to resurrect one or two people at a time rather than hiding and waiting for a team wipe.


Stop being ignorant, she was only used in the pro scene along side a Pharah before the re-work... never without the Pharah. With her old ultimate she had the flexibility to resurrect one player or five players depending on the situation.

Blizzard is so focused on the success of their e-sport league that they are removing all of the fun from a character in their game because they cannot swallow their pride and revert the re-work and admit it was a mistake. Because it sure is fun being stuck in quicksand trying to resurrect an ally in and out of her ultimate. Mercy will be the boring heal bot everybody wants her to be, doubt Mercy will get another play of the game again unless she goes pistol Mercy.
01/05/2018 12:01 PMPosted by darkseid117
01/05/2018 11:52 AMPosted by Rosalhymn
mercy 1.0 was never OP and never a mustpick

she was a decent healer but mostly considered bad compared to ana lucio and zen at high levels of play

they created this problem by reworking her and having rez as an ability

they also pretend the rework is a succes despite all the needed nerfs,whilst simultaneously ignoring +1000 pages accross 4 different mega threads with suggestions and feedback

revert mercy..


The new Mercy is absolutely leaps and bounds ahead of what we had before. It was ridiculous that the enemy could spend several ults, completely wipe your team, but if your Mercy just stayed in spawn and came out with rez it would all be undone. In fact you could rez in spawn on Gibraltar. At least the current Mercy doesn't completely negate an entire team wipe with one button.
Before the rework, Mercy could not res in spawn anywhere. They added that mechanic shortly before reworking her, which is part of what astounds me - they were just starting to look at how to adjust resurrect, and then just decided "nah screw it, let's just get rid of it".

The argument as also been made time and time again: if the enemy Mercy is hiding in spawn, you are fighting a 6v5 in which the enemy team is missing not just any team member, but a primary healer. In most cases you should not have to expend every single one of your ults to win that fight. You should also quickly catch on to the fact that Mercy is missing (since she's a high-priority target anyway), and either send a flanker to find her once the fight is securely in your favor, or have a response ult reserved for after she resurrects or even just to prevent the resurrection altogether (believe it or not, it was possible to ensnare and/or kill Mercy before she got back onto the point, if you suspected it was coming). Since a resurrected team will respawn in great disarray and probably a bit of confusion, with most/all of their ults missing, plus the fact that it takes them a few seconds to get moving again, you should have sufficient time to get into position and smash them with a good ult that you saved because you had good gamesense and ult economy.

Even if that's not enough, people suggested all sorts of tweaks to huge res that would have added counterplay. I've seen suggestions to res at only partial health, remove damage vulnerability (make it damage resistance instead), increase cast time, require LoS so Mercy can't res through walls... all sorts of good stuff. But Blizzard ignored all that. Better just get rid of the entire ultimate, clearly it's a lost cause, no point in even trying all these wonderful suggestions that people were practically hurling at them.
01/05/2018 11:27 AMPosted by darkseid117
Let's talk about the Overwatch League Preseason. For those who don't know, 11 professional Overwatch teams had their exhibition matches early last month. This gave us a taste as to what we can expect from the regular Overwatch League season which starts up in a couple days. These players are the best in the world, they know how to play their heroes to the maximum potential, they know what team compositions work and which ones don't, they know which heroes are strong and which are weak in the current meta. At the highest tier of Overwatch play, Mercy saw an 88% pickrate, compared to Ana's 5%.

But let's ignore support characters for a moment and instead talk about DPS heroes. Two specifically -- Genji and Tracer. One thing Blizzard does very well, at least in regards to DPS heroes, is balance skill vs impact. Genji and Tracer are seen by many players in the professional Overwatch community as the two most difficult heroes to play. Their skill cap is very high, and as a result they have a very large impact on their games. This is why they have seen a relatively stable pickrate ever since Overwatch was released. Dragonblade is an ultimate that can wipe teams if used correctly, Pulse Bomb can guarantee a crucial kill to swing the team fight in your favor. The general theme of DPS heroes is higher skill cap means higher impact on team fights.

Now let's compare this philosophy to support heroes. It is regarded almost universally that Ana is a much harder hero to play than Mercy. Ana's skill cap is much higher than that of Mercy's. Ana's kit rewards skilled players -- sleep dart can incapacitate an ult'ing enemy, biotic grenade can serve as a direct counter to transcendence, and being able to heal players engaged in a team fight from a safe distance makes her a very valuable character. The same cannot be said for Mercy. Sure, Mercy players have to be aware of their positioning and asses if it is safe to rez a fallen ally, but positioning is a skill that applies to all heroes. Mercy is considered a must pick not because of the personplaying Mercy, but because simply having a Mercy is so game-changing. A good Ana player can have a huge impact on the game, but that's because of the skill you must have in order to play Ana effectively. Mercy is not like that. It doesn't matter if you're a good Mercy player or a bad Mercy player (to an extent), rez and Valkyrie require very little skill. Flying to your fallen teammate and holding E is something anyone can do. But sleep darting an ult'ing Genji is not something everyone can do -- yet they're both extremely high impact abilities. The difference is one of them comes as a result of player skill, the other comes as a result of simply existing.

It would stand to reason then, that a skilled player given the choice between choosing Ana or Mercy is better off picking Ana because the hero rewards skilled players. However this is not the case, which brings me back to the OWL preseason statistic. Mercy's 88% pickrate, a low skill high impact hero, compared to Ana's 5% pickrate, a high skill high impact hero; simply does not make sense. These heroes should not have the same level of impact on a game if one takes vastly more skill to play than the other. Why would anyone ever learn to play Ana if you can just play a much easier hero with the same impact?

The solution then is to nerf Mercy. She just simply has too much of an impact on games for being such a low skill ceiling hero. And I'd like to mention there's nothing wrong with having low skill ceiling heroes -- not every hero has to be difficult to play, not every hero has to be Genji or Tracer. But those heroes should not be rewarded with as heavy an impact as high skilled heroes.

This is by no means the "end" of Mercy. People have said every Mercy buff/nerf/rework that Mercy is "dead". Mercy is not dead. Mercy will never be dead so long as resurrect is still in the game. Rez is simply too good, it such a game-changer. But because resurrect is so powerful the rest of her kit must be toned down.

TL;DR: Mercy is too powerful for being a low skill ceiling hero. Resurrect is extremely strong, and the rest of her kit should be nerfed in order to reflect that. High impact heroes should reflect the player's skill.

Also I encourage anyone to review the OWL Preseason statistics on Winston's Lab, it's some real interesting stuff: https://www.winstonslab.com/events/event.php?id=91
The solution is to move rez to ult only and rework her primary kit to reward better players who know what they are doing with mercy. Your reasoning is beyond itself stupid as you are stating the only and forever only solution is to nerf the !@#$ out of a character.

No one said to not nerf mercy but we also said to nerf mercy correctly. Look at junk he had everything about his kit that was an issue fixed with simple adjustments and they practically listened to the community. They nerfed him right.

While they nerfed mercy wrong
01/05/2018 01:27 PMPosted by darkseid117
01/05/2018 01:09 PMPosted by WildElements
...And what hero WOULD deserve it? Your answer should be none. You should be wanting flexibility and diversity in this game, even at the pro level.


How is an 88% pickrate in professional Overwatch "flexibility"??? The reason they nerfed Mercy in the first place is so that other heroes like Ana and Moira will actually be seen in Competitive.

Dva had higher pickrate from time to time even during the most OP Mercy patches. Lucio had 90+% pickrate forever, so much that most OWL teams have at least one, sometimes two, Lucio-only players.

And Ana's pro pickrate was in free fall before the Mercy rework. She won't be picked that much more often as now. As for Moira, she's not picked because she brings no utility. It's going to be pure dive, with Lucio and Zen as support, that's all.

If this goes through, very quickly, you're going to see 90% pickrates on Lucio, Winston, DVa and Tracer, while Zen and Genji are at least 70+%, just like you did before the Mercy rework, because nothing that made pure dive effective over any other strategy has changed.

But hey, they won't have to play Mercy.
01/05/2018 01:27 PMPosted by darkseid117
01/05/2018 01:09 PMPosted by WildElements
...And what hero WOULD deserve it? Your answer should be none. You should be wanting flexibility and diversity in this game, even at the pro level.


How is an 88% pickrate in professional Overwatch "flexibility"??? The reason they nerfed Mercy in the first place is so that other heroes like Ana and Moira will actually be seen in Competitive.
I was actually talking about the whole roster, not just Mercy. I don't even know how you managed to misconstrue that.
01/05/2018 11:52 AMPosted by Rosalhymn
mercy 1.0 was never OP and never a mustpick

she was a decent healer but mostly considered bad compared to ana lucio and zen at high levels of play

they created this problem by reworking her and having rez as an ability

they also pretend the rework is a succes despite all the needed nerfs,whilst simultaneously ignoring +1000 pages accross 4 different mega threads with suggestions and feedback

revert mercy..

+1
I remember they wanted to have it set to one rez but that did get the backlash for good reasons because she went from original rezing 5 players at once to 4 player in 20 sec. Of course the 4 rezing over 20 secs was way too OP. So to go all the way down to 1 rez from that would have been a mistake because we would not have know if having 2 rez was still too much power. I'm fine with 1 Rez because I now know that 2 rez is OP. But I think the other nerfs are going way too far.
He have reason, why too many dislikes?, Mercy mains?
01/05/2018 06:31 PMPosted by Legato2400
I remember they wanted to have it set to one rez but that did get the backlash for good reasons because she went from original rezing 5 players at once to 4 player in 20 sec. Of course the 4 rezing over 20 secs was way too OP. So to go all the way down to 1 rez from that would have been a mistake because we would not have know if having 2 rez was still too much power. I'm fine with 1 Rez because I now know that 2 rez is OP. But I think the other nerfs are going way too far.
It’s ONE extra charge with Valkyrie right now. Two if she saves a rez for her ult. How is that OP? Rez on her ult was the best/most fun part of it, especially with how lackluster Valkyrie is. I’m completely fine with a GA speed reduction and the shorter time. The Rez removal and the instant rez are the worse parts of the PTR changes. Blizzard is removing the most impactful part of her ULTIMATE. It will be a joke of an ultimate if these changes go live.
01/05/2018 01:27 PMPosted by darkseid117
How is an 88% pickrate in professional Overwatch "flexibility"??? The reason they nerfed Mercy in the first place is so that other heroes like Ana and Moira will actually be seen in Competitive.


Lucio with his 2 year 95% says hello :)
01/05/2018 01:31 PMPosted by Ranger51
Before the rework, Mercy could not res in spawn anywhere. They added that mechanic shortly before reworking her, which is part of what astounds me - they were just starting to look at how to adjust resurrect, and then just decided "nah screw it, let's just get rid of it".

That is simply not true. Mercy was able to rez in spawn of Gibraltar up until a few a few months ago. And since you apparently don't believe me, here are some youtube videos showing exactly that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccdHnsKtNpE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VAFYPk46GY
This one even goes back to when the game launched: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g4lex69AiQ

01/05/2018 05:48 PMPosted by WildElements
I was actually talking about the whole roster, not just Mercy. I don't even know how you managed to misconstrue that.


Obviously that is what you're referring to. That is what everyone wants. But you cannot say that you want a diverse roster while at the same time allowing a single support hero to dominate the competitive scene. The reason why Blizzard is nerfing her in the first place is BECAUSE they want competitive Overwatch to feature more support heroes than just Mercy. If you think one hero shouldn't dominate the meta then why do you dismiss any nerfs to a hero that is currently dominating the meta?

01/05/2018 06:33 PMPosted by EndoMaster
He have reason, why too many dislikes?, Mercy mains?


Pretty much. People are always salty when their mains get nerfed, but Mercy mains are by far the most defensive. Hopefully Blizzard makes the right choice and goes through with the nerfs though.
01/05/2018 12:01 PMPosted by darkseid117
In fact you could rez in spawn on Gibraltar. At least the current Mercy doesn't completely negate an entire team wipe with one button.


Buddy you do know that mercy could no longer rez in spawn right? That was at the tail end of mercy 1.0 changes. You have no argument, because blizz fixed that already.
You know... I 100 % agree with you for differing reasons.

Proplayers and streamers started the complaints and influence of others about Mercy while she could still full team revive. Not a single post (I stalk Reddit forums) complained about her. No one saw her as insane. Not a single person cared. She could be picked and asked to switch to Ana!

Blizzard listening to proplayers and streamers started this. This thing that is now "Mercy" which no one wanted. They caused for all this OPAF nonsense. Slight tweaks to full team revive would have been more than enough.

New Mercy was mixed. A lot adjusted to her. Some found her better but after your favourite character being nerfed every single patch (near that) it becomes unfun. Now we have neither a rewarding hero or a fun hero but a despised bundled mess of a hero that is becoming a solo healbot with nothing else to add to a team.

New Mercy hasn't worked. Has gotten countless complaints. Pros hate it. competitive hates it. Mercy players hate it. She's too good in comp and all this started with DPS teamwipe players complaining. No one cares about 95% Lucio for almost all seasons. Not much was said about Ana until it became mainstream (again by pro players and streamers.)

She's too good now but this is what EVERYONE wanted... I guess. Just not from the people that play her. And they hate her too now. It was fun not having people want to pick her. Doing good with a less desirable character and getting praise AND being a support. Now its; play the brain-dead no skill Mercy so we can win.

I'm sorry but she's not working. Not for comp. Not for the community. Not for blizzard.

She is making overwatch Esports not as good possibly but that wasnt asked for by Mercy players. We liked being little gems in the dirt playing a less desirable hero....
01/05/2018 08:00 PMPosted by darkseid117
but Mercy mains are by far the most defensive. Hopefully Blizzard makes the right choice and goes through with the nerfs though.


We are defensive because the changes are bad and make mercy less fun to play she is getting more boring to play. Dude we don't want these changes because we want mercy to changed the right way and this is not it. And also we are defensive because Blizz can't swallow their gigantic pride and revert her like they promised.

"Rest assured, if things aren't playing out well on the PTR, or if things happen to go live and they're not playing out perfectly or to the community's liking, we will go back and keep looking at these things." - Jeff Kaplan

If you don't believe me still then here is the video
https://youtu.be/vDlCqJ1tD3M?t=9m41s

We have a right to be mad when Blizz does nothing but ignore their community.
They need to revert mercy and start over, like maybe she gets up to 4 rezs but the more heroes you rez the less health they will have like for every rez person rezed they heroes have 10% less health. Getting rid of rez is an extreme move, rez is a part of who mercy is if they get rid of it they she will just be a moving health pack. #RevertMercy
Never should have made rez a basic ability. No idea what they were thinking, unless moving rez away from ult is their way of eventually completely removing it from the game.
01/05/2018 07:54 PMPosted by clarry
Lucio with his 2 year 95% says hello :)


Lucio was nerfed because, surprise surprise, his pickrate was too high. His pickrate in OWL preseason was 22%. Blizzard saw a hero that became too dominant, issued some nerfs, and now he's at a reasonable level. Why people are losing their minds now that the same thing is being done to Mercy is beyond me.

01/05/2018 08:03 PMPosted by LucarioGirl
Buddy you do know that mercy could no longer rez in spawn right? That was at the tail end of mercy 1.0 changes. You have no argument, because blizz fixed that already.


I'm not 100% sure what you're trying to say here, but my point was reverting Mercy's rework to what we had at the start of the game is a horrible idea. They only fixed the spawn resurrects right before they reworked her, and if you don't believe me then you should check my previous comment.
You are talking to a wrong crowd friend, yes the nerf was necessary and they would want to push it before OWL. But talking in this forum will not help you get an unbiased answer.
I am a support main and i play all healers equally, except for ana because i am bad at her lmao, im actually quite pleased with this changes because it might mean that i can play my bro lucio on comps again without being asked to switch to mercy.
01/05/2018 08:18 PMPosted by LucarioGirl
And also we are defensive because Blizz can't swallow their gigantic pride and revert her like they promised.

"Rest assured, if things aren't playing out well on the PTR, or if things happen to go live and they're not playing out perfectly or to the community's liking, we will go back and keep looking at these things." - Jeff Kaplan

If you don't believe me still then here is the video
https://youtu.be/vDlCqJ1tD3M?t=9m41s


No where in that video does Jeff ever mention a revert. Blizzard is doing exactly what they promised, they are doing exactly what Jeff said in that video -- they are going back and making changes. Making changes in the form of nerfs.

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