Bugs or not, Doomfist still sucks

General Discussion
The thing is, he sucks in pro play.

BUT.

He's actually a monster on ladder. Like he's actually freelo even at my tank if you're good, they can't risk buffing him.

Wall slides off of LANDED RP's are STILL abundant in the game, as are ghost punching through enemies with Rocket Punch.

Wall slides will still happen because the cut off angle for a player to slide is 45 degrees. They simply made wall hits within that angle guaranteed and also loosened the restrictions on what things are considered a "wall". Haven't had a single wall slide this the patch that follows this rule.

Ghost punches are fixed on PTR right now, though I think there are still issues with people being able to jump over it when on slopes.
12/29/2017 12:44 PMPosted by EpsilonKey14
I'll say it once and say it again!

You cannot make a hero with a hitbox the size of a Tank's hitbox, give them the health of an Attack/Defense character and make them a melee-type hero.

You know what counters Doomfist? Range.

He has the same issues as Reaper, except WORSE considering that his methods of attack are ability dependant and again, his HITBOX.

Zarya: 6'5" with 400 HP (200 Health / 200 Shields).

Doomfist: 7'1" with 250 HP.


So basically, Doomfist is bigger than Zarya...but has none of the bulk necessary to actually survive.

He is a large target who's constantly waiting on cooldowns (including his primary fire) in a game that requires you to be extremely mobile or have great self-sustain plus a strong ranged weapon to survive.

Doomfist has none of these.

And don't get me started about his outrageously telegraphed "I'm going to hit you here so you can avoid me" ultimate.

It says something when I as Ana, who has no effective way of avoiding his ultimate, can simply walk far enough out his range to Sleep Dart him after he lands.

Meteor Strike, in my opinion, is the absolute WORST offensive ultimate in this game.

After all, most people use it to escape rather than attack, which is just awful...

When you play Doomfist you literally have to go in expecting that at any possible moment someone will see you and decide to make your life a living hell.

I don't know why he was nerfed so quickly and carelessly when he was released but really and truly it doesn't take much to realize that Doomfist is essentially a mobile Ult-charge canister.

...and that's terrible.

All of this
12/29/2017 02:25 PMPosted by UNBREAKABLE

Wall slides off of LANDED RP's are STILL abundant in the game, as are ghost punching through enemies with Rocket Punch.

Wall slides will still happen because the cut off angle for a player to slide is 45 degrees. They simply made wall hits within that angle guaranteed and also loosened the restrictions on what things are considered a "wall". Haven't had a single wall slide this the patch that follows this rule.

Ghost punches are fixed on PTR right now, though I think there are still issues with people being able to jump over it when on slopes.

I'll keep an eye on out when I play later but I swear I've had wall slides within this range, I even hit the same Mercy back to back and watched her slide off the nearest wall. Was blown away.
I made a new account just to practice Doomfist and try to get good with him in competitive so I can use him on my main account as he is very fun to play despite his flaws.

After lots of time getting to 25 without the group bonus XP, I felt comfortable to at least try comp with him. It went quite well most of the time, I managed to get to Diamond on the account. However, in most games that weren't Control maps, I had to switch.

On maps like Numbani/Eichenwalde attack he is just entirely impossible to use, so I don't use him there.

I agree with the OP, he needs straight out survivability buffs and tweaks to his cooldowns and primary fire.

Doomfist DOES work sometimes, on Lijiang Tower and Oasis he can be a monster. But the problem is, he is countered by so many heroes right now. If the opposite team gets Pharah out, you basically can't touch her and have to switch unless their team is playing awful. McCree is a hard counter and so is Roadhog, one stun or hook and you are done. And do not get me started on how easy it is for Junk to mine you in the face.

He is lots of fun when he works, but after all the time I have put into practising him, the fact I still need to switch almost each game isn't right. Even Chipsa switches most games at some point, and he doesn't play Doom as much as I thought he would after watching his streams.

I just hope the excuse isn't "Doom is another niche hero".
I wouldnt say Doomfist sucks. He's not terrible, but he's underpowered for sure.
We need a Doomfist megathread as he needs to be fixed and buffed more than any other hero on the roster. I think his path to being fixed should start with the following:
  • Revert him to his state before all the pre-release PTR nerfs he received. The greater mobility of his original design was a part of what was supposed to give him some survivability. The pre-release PTR nerfs destroyed that right out of the gate.
  • Adjust his Rocket Punch hitbox to be smaller than it was on release but larger than it is now. The gigantimegahuge original flavor hitbox was bad but the tinybabysmall extra crispy recipe hitbox he has now is arguably more problematic

A history of his nerfs for those that don't remember:

On first release to PTR, within a week...
  • Rocket Punch Distance Nerf (down from 30 meters to 22 meters)
  • Rising Uppercut Vertical Height Nerf (resulting in tons of ledges DF can't reach)
  • Rocket Punch Velocity Nerf (slowing RP & reducing travel distance to 20 meters)

Then after live release...
  • Rocket Punch Hitbox Nerf (resulting in RP having a tiny, unreliable hitbox)
  • Aerial Rocket Punch Nerf (jump+RP down from 20 meters to 15 meters)

Once his mobility is restored and his Rocket Punch brought back from life support and his many, many bugs and bugged/flawed interactions with other hero abilities are fixed we can look at the...

Buffs he may need:
  • Cooldown reset on Seismic Slam
  • Reducing shield depletion rate
  • Doing something to protect him during Rocket Punch charge up/deployment
  • Front-loading Rocket Punch damage (-20 from wall damage +20 to punch)
  • Adding 5th shot to Hand Cannon and/or manual reload and reducing its bullet spread
  • Increasing Meteor Strike effectiveness (whether that be through a much needed damage increase (300 damage... really?), widening the inner circle area or making it somehow less maddeningly slow and obvious)


That is a ton of work Doomfist needs to become truly viable and I'm not saying all those buffs must happen, with the ability to one-shot some drawbacks are needed (#HanzoWTF). But the Doommeister has been dumpster tier for far too long and something needs to be done about it and not just a tiny numbers adjustment but a real, deep dive fix and buff.
He needs:

--The rest of his bugs fixed.
--50 barriers per enemy hit instead of 30.
--Uppercut and Slam on a 6 second cooldown instead of 7.
--Be able to cancel Slam by pressing Uppercut.
--Have the spread on his hand cannon be fixed and not random.

I do however like the current hitbox on Rocket Punch, it makes him really skillful imho.
He needs:

--The rest of his bugs fixed.
--50 barriers per enemy hit instead of 30.
--Uppercut and Slam on a 6 second cooldown instead of 7.
--Be able to cancel Slam by pressing Uppercut.
--Have the spread on his hand cannon be fixed and not random.

I do however like the current hitbox on Rocket Punch, it makes him really skillful imho.


I forgot to mention the ability to cancel out of slam. Good catch. Never fun to get booped off a map during slam and being forced to ride it to your death when you could have easily uppercut or Rocket Punched out of danger if you weren't stuck on rails.
12/29/2017 12:08 PMPosted by TheRoseEXP
Next, his main gun needs at least one more shot in it or reload quicker

If him shooting wouldn't reset the reload timer, he would effectively have 5 shots, and more shots in general during fights since his shots wouldn't slow down the reload.

If tracer blinks would reset the cooldown on the next blink like it happens to doomfist shots, these forums would explode. But its doomfist, almost nobody plays doomfist, so the feedback, even if its there, it is so little that it is just suppressed by all other topics.

Oh well, i guess we can't have nice things.
01/15/2018 05:32 AMPosted by iSinner
12/29/2017 12:08 PMPosted by TheRoseEXP
Next, his main gun needs at least one more shot in it or reload quicker

If him shooting wouldn't reset the reload timer, he would effectively have 5 shots, and more shots in general during fights since his shots wouldn't slow down the reload.
I play a ton of DF and didn't even know it worked that way. That sucks.
01/15/2018 06:01 AMPosted by Sikozu
I play a ton of DF and didn't even know it worked that way. That sucks.

You didn't notice? how is that possible?

Didn't you notice how, if you space your shots, the next shot to reload takes forever? you can go as much as 3 seconds with no shots reloaded, when the reload timer is at .75s, didn't you notice that?
01/15/2018 06:06 AMPosted by iSinner
01/15/2018 06:01 AMPosted by Sikozu
I play a ton of DF and didn't even know it worked that way. That sucks.

You didn't notice? how is that possible?

Didn't you notice how, if you space your shots, the next shot to reload takes forever? you can go as much as 3 seconds with no shots reloaded, when the reload timer is at .75s, didn't you notice that?
Nope. I definitely noticed running out of ammo all the time, just never put 2 and 2 together.
Doomfist still sucks
12/29/2017 12:08 PMPosted by TheRoseEXP
Doomfist stands as Blizzard's biggest failure character wise and after so much hype, he's unarguably one of the worst characters in the game, certainly the buggiest and easily the worst DPS. (supported by pick/win rates and just being obvious)

Wall slides off of LANDED RP's are STILL abundant in the game, as are ghost punching through enemies with Rocket Punch, not to mention his hit box this ability is again, smaller than Mercy's pistol shots. A massive fist requires a bigger hitbox than a bullet, I'm sorry. Yes it was too big at launch, yes they nerfed it far too much. Yet, even if all of these bugs are flawlessly fixed, he's still going to be bad, that's a fact.

In addition, while he has 250 HP he goes down quicker than nearly every hero in this game. His passive is trash for how vulnerable every single one of his abilities make him and his hitbox is as big as a tank.

He needs buff(s) as in plural, to be viable in this game, so what does Blizzard need to do?

First his health and passive. At least one of these needs to happen:
-Make his passive armor instead of shields
-Revert his passive to 50 shields per landed ability instead of 30
-Flat out add 50 armor to his kit for 300 health.

Or, the better option, damage reduction when using his abilities which is when he is the most vulnerable. Doomfist has ZERO defensive abilities and his passive 30 shields per ability landed are simply nothing when he's being focused down with a hit box as big as a house. God forbid you miss, which is frequent with how buggy he is. Doomfist's inability to stay alive without babysitting is his single biggest problem and no amount of skill will help you here.

Next, his main gun needs at least one more shot in it or reload quicker. I mean, 4 shots is nothing and seeing as he has only one range where he is effective, he needs to be able to sustain damage in close when cooldowns are gone. His main weapon as of right now sucks.

Third, his ultimate also sucks and leaves him a sitting duck on nearly anything but dead center hits. How does Doomfist's ultimate ONLY do 300 damage anyway? If they're to keep it at 300 damage, the epicenter for that effective area needs to be bigger and he needs to recover quicker from landing, otherwise he's as good as dead. Right now Doomfist's ultimate is better as an escape tool than for dealing damage. Every DPS has a better ultimate than him, every single one.

Lastly, Rising Uppercut must have a vertical hitbox added to it.

TLDR: Even when all bugs are fixed, Doomfist will still suck. Fix his ability to stay alive, his main weapon, his uppercut and finally his ultimate = Doomfist not sucking.

INB4 noobs crying about 1 shots every 4 seconds even though RP requires 2 seconds of charge anyway cuz noobs.


iSinner and I made different bug threads (https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20760618494?page=1 and https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20761807201?page=1#post-20) yet we still haven't had a response from the devs. the changes are nice, but he's still broken
01/15/2018 05:32 AMPosted by iSinner
12/29/2017 12:08 PMPosted by TheRoseEXP
Next, his main gun needs at least one more shot in it or reload quicker

If him shooting wouldn't reset the reload timer, he would effectively have 5 shots, and more shots in general during fights since his shots wouldn't slow down the reload.

If tracer blinks would reset the cooldown on the next blink like it happens to doomfist shots, these forums would explode. But its doomfist, almost nobody plays doomfist, so the feedback, even if its there, it is so little that it is just suppressed by all other topics.

Oh well, i guess we can't have nice things.


Nobody likes Doomfist except a few fans like myself. It's very sad.
His Hand Cannon hitreg is awful as well. This new patch is supposed to make his hand cannon damage more reliable, which is great, but sometimes I'll see all of my shots hit a target, sparks and everything, and do like 30 damage. Also I've just recently started to lag out every time I chain his abilities together, and this is very recent. I still think they should revert one of his first major nerfs, and that's his seismic slam being able to take him to higher places. They can tune the height and everything, but I think that would fix quite a bit of issues with him. As for actual buffs, obviously his pin needle fist size needs to be increased just a bit, and if for some reason all of these changes don't put him in the right spot, then you could turn his shields into armor instead. I would prefer seismic slam being able to take you to higher heights though, as the passive buff might not even be needed.
An offensive Dive Hero with the Hitbox of a Tank. Has an ability to one shot if it's bugs take the day off, otherwise you become fodder to boost other's Ult's. And his Ult.... usually asking to get yourself killed since most of the heroes getting play time have mobility and everyone knows exactly where to focus fire you into oblivion.

Surprised he doesn't get a passive like Genji where a kill will reset one of his abilities.
In my opinion the DF in game will never be fun or balanced. To be fun his one hit kill would have to be easier to do, but that would knock out balance elsewhere and make the game annoying for people playing against him.

A doomfist without a one hit kill move, but something fun in comparison could make the game more versitile and keep the character enjoyable.

They can't balance his one hit kill non-ult ability just like they can't balance rez as an non-ult ability. It leads to the character feeling horrible and not being fun to play.

TL;DR a doomfist design without a one hit kill would be more enjoyable and balanced all round.

Edited.
02/11/2018 02:19 PMPosted by Chiana
In my opinion the DF in game will never be fun or balanced. To be fun his one hit kill would have to be easier to do, but that would knock out balance elsewhere and make the game annoying for people playing against him.

A doomfist without a one hit kill move, but something fun in comparison could make the game more versitile and keep the character enjoyable.

They can't balance his one hit kill non-ult ability just like they can't balance rez as an non-ult ability. It leads to the character feeling horrible and not being fun to play.

TL;DR a doomfist design without a one hit kill would be more enjoyable and balanced all round.

Edited.


I've always liked the idea of making him a cc tank

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