Revert Mercy. (Uncap When Limit is Reached, or PT 2?)

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Skilled Mercy's took cover

Bad ones played Hide and Seek

#RevertMercy
01/28/2018 12:49 AMPosted by Jaaash
If the recent PTR nerf goes live, I think the best action we should take is to stop using mercy altogether. That way, they'll see that mercy mains don't enjoy playing her anymore from the statistics that they highly put importance to. If they see that nobody's playing her, maybe they'll finally fkin understand that we cannot tolerate them butchering Mercy anymore...

There are characters with less than 4% pickrates already. If Mercy falls down from her astronomical pickrate down to something more in line with the other heroes (which would be a HUGE dropoff) why would that be an indicator that Blizzard needs to do anything? So Mercy falls from an 80% pickrate across the board to a 30% pickrate...so what?
01/29/2018 09:29 PMPosted by jasonwocky
01/28/2018 12:49 AMPosted by Jaaash
If the recent PTR nerf goes live, I think the best action we should take is to stop using mercy altogether. That way, they'll see that mercy mains don't enjoy playing her anymore from the statistics that they highly put importance to. If they see that nobody's playing her, maybe they'll finally fkin understand that we cannot tolerate them butchering Mercy anymore...

There are characters with less than 4% pickrates already. If Mercy falls down from her astronomical pickrate down to something more in line with the other heroes (which would be a HUGE dropoff) why would that be an indicator that Blizzard needs to do anything? So Mercy falls from an 80% pickrate across the board to a 30% pickrate...so what?


Mercy's pickrate in comp on the ladder is 14-15%, not 80%.

If we are referring to Overwatch League, Mercy pickrate is 95% (it was less than 5% before her rework). But Dva's is 92%, Winstons is 84%, and Zen is 74%. Yet I don't see people begging for them to get nerfed. You shouldn't use Pick Rate as an argument for power, because they aren't always directly related, especially on ladder vs Pro scene.

Pick rate on ladder is usually based on perceived meta as well as the skill requirement of the hero. Widow was barely played in games until Flow3r played her at World Cup, and suddenly her pick rate shot up even though she hadn't been changed in months. Perception is a powerful thing; many people only started begging for a Mercy every game after she was deemed a "must pick" by Pros, even though players in diamond and under will never play the game the way the Pro's do and should stop being such "meta slaves".

Mercy has always had a high pick rate on ladder and a low pick rate in Pro Scene up until her rework, yet heroes like Dva have remained consistently at the top for both for several months, even before Mercy was changed.

And Jeff literally said in the recent Developer Update that they want Mercy to be "very viable" in comp and that if the nerf is too hard they will "bring her back" in power levels. So we have every reason to believe she will receive some sort of buffs/further reworking after her play time/viability plummets with the incoming nerfs.
01/29/2018 09:43 PMPosted by SirRocknRyan
01/29/2018 09:29 PMPosted by jasonwocky
...
There are characters with less than 4% pickrates already. If Mercy falls down from her astronomical pickrate down to something more in line with the other heroes (which would be a HUGE dropoff) why would that be an indicator that Blizzard needs to do anything? So Mercy falls from an 80% pickrate across the board to a 30% pickrate...so what?


Mercy's pickrate in comp on the ladder is 14-15%, not 80%.

If we are referring to Overwatch League, Mercy pickrate is 95% (it was less than 5% before her rework). But Dva's is 92%, Winstons is 84%, and Zen is 74%. Yet I don't see people begging for them to get nerfed. You shouldn't use Pick Rate as an argument for power, because they aren't always directly related, especially on ladder vs Pro scene.

Pick rate on ladder is usually based on perceived meta as well as the skill requirement of the hero. Widow was barely played in games until Flow3r played her at World Cup, and suddenly her pick rate shot up even though she hadn't been changed in months. Perception is a powerful thing; many people only started begging for a Mercy every game after she was deemed a "must pick" by Pros, even though players in diamond and under will never play the game the way the Pro's do and should stop being such "meta slaves".

Mercy has always had a high pick rate on ladder and a low pick rate in Pro Scene up until her rework, yet heroes like Dva have remained consistently at the top for both for several months, even before Mercy was changed.

And Jeff literally said in the recent Developer Update that they want Mercy to be "very viable" in comp and that if the nerf is too hard they will "bring her back" in power levels. So we have every reason to believe she will receive some sort of buffs/further reworking after her play time/viability plummets with the incoming nerfs.
so what you are saying is blizzard cares more about OWL than its player base?
Why do I even post.. waste of time.

Ex-Mercy player here. Yes you're going to statistically balance her, but in doing so you killed the fun, you killed the hero. No you don't "love Mercy", Jeff.

Original Mercy was fun, HEROES NEVER DIE epic moments.
Rework Mercy is meh, mostly boring, often clumsy, epic moments only from leaving behind your Mercyness and going dps. At least there's that statistically higher chance to win but not for long.

She needs another large rework, but who's gonna admit that after all this time at Blizzard. Could revert her but you thought THAT needed a rework so yeah..
01/30/2018 02:09 AMPosted by Crozzwise
Why do I even post.. waste of time.

Ex-Mercy player here. Yes you're going to statistically balance her, but in doing so you killed the fun, you killed the hero. No you don't "love Mercy", Jeff.

[/quote]
They are nerfing her just to take her out of the meta for sure so that people calm down and then they can start balancing I assume because they cant find a good way of doing that in a normal way... Which is a very bad way of balancing indeed but hey thats what we're getting.
I'm still waiting for an apology from overwatch devs for this debacle.

That being said, I don't think cretins issue apologies.
01/29/2018 09:43 PMPosted by SirRocknRyan
Mercy's pickrate in comp on the ladder is 14-15%, not 80%.

14-15% of what? And what's your source? Let's make sure we're talking about the same thing here, because I'm quite certain you're mixing up two things. There's no way that she's 14-15% of anything on ladder and 95% of that same thing in OWL. I strongly suspect your confusing her "hero pick rate" with her "team appearance rate"...for pick rate, she's probably 14-15% on ladder and almost 16% in OWL. That translates to an 80+% appearance rate on ladder and the 95% appearance you're talking about in OWL.

My source is Omnic Meta:
http://www.omnicmeta.com/2018/01/overwatch-hero-meta-report-pc-jan-17.html

Mercy's appearance rate is 90% in GM and works its way down to 62% in Bronze. Meanwhile, by the same metrics, there are heroes that have < 5% appearance rates.

You shouldn't use Pick Rate as an argument for power, because they aren't always directly related, especially on ladder vs Pro scene.

I never did that; quit making things like statistics and strawmen up. I simply replied to someone saying that the best way to deal with this is not play Mercy so they can prove to Blizzard that the rework was a failure. And I merely asked that if as a result of this nerf, Mercy's pickrate merely falls in line with other heroes, why should anyone consider that a problem?

So I ask again: Where are you getting 14-15% from? And why should Blizzard care if Mercy's usage rate falls down to levels that would be fine for any other hero? She doesn't need to remain popular simply because she always has been. There are 25 other heroes in the game. Let's see some more of them for once.
It's funny cuz there literally is no reason to not revert mercy at this point.
She was obviously more fun to play to the majority.
More balanced.
And the sr system isn't performance based after diamond and above, so no more mercies that wait for 5 man rez to boost their sr.
If it would be like she calls out "HEROES NEVER DIE" while casting it like lucio casting sound barrier, with a similar cast time,it would be perfect.
Honestly, if you have to cut out more and more of Mercy's kit to the point where she's basically dead, what does that say about the rework? Only mercy is still going to be op after this, basically a zombie abomination of what she used to be..
Rez on e will never work the way blizz thinks it will. Let's go back to huge rez and work from there please
01/30/2018 02:19 AMPosted by Stavros

They are nerfing her just to take her out of the meta for sure so that people calm down and then they can start balancing I assume because they cant find a good way of doing that in a normal way... Which is a very bad way of balancing indeed but hey thats what we're getting.
To quote a certain hero, what are you on about? They're balancing her now so they can balance her later? Right.

Problem is there's no basis from which to balance Mercy. The collection of abilities she has can't be tweaked to make her as fun or more fun to play with or against than the original Mercy; Blizzard sure tried long enough. So we need another rework, simple.
[Problem is there's no basis from which to balance Mercy. The collection of abilities she has can't be tweaked to make her as fun or more fun to play with or against than the original Mercy; Blizzard sure tried long enough. So we need another rework, simple.

This may be true. But in the meantime Competitive Overwatch needs to be fixed. And contrary to what people here seem to think, "Reverting" is probably not as technically easy at this point as it sounds. The code for Mercy 1.0 is months old, hasn't been updated with any of the physics changes since then, hasn't been tested against the new map, etc. Toning current Mercy down is likely the only feasible option for now.

I pushed hard for a Revert a week after Mercy 2.0 was released. Back then it would have been easy, but everybody was downvoting me. Now look where we are.
01/30/2018 09:37 AMPosted by jasonwocky
[Problem is there's no basis from which to balance Mercy. The collection of abilities she has can't be tweaked to make her as fun or more fun to play with or against than the original Mercy; Blizzard sure tried long enough. So we need another rework, simple.

This may be true. But in the meantime Competitive Overwatch needs to be fixed. And contrary to what people here seem to think, "Reverting" is probably not as technically easy at this point as it sounds. The code for Mercy 1.0 is months old, hasn't been updated with any of the physics changes since then, hasn't been tested against the new map, etc. Toning current Mercy down is likely the only feasible option for now.

I pushed hard for a Revert a week after Mercy 2.0 was released. Back then it would have been easy, but everybody was downvoting me. Now look where we are.
Well, the jury's still out on the Physics changes, anyway, so there's that. Also, any company worth their money has proper source control, meaning a literal revert could be relatively easy.
They do this...DAMN YOU JEFF!!!!!!!!
Welp... And they just pushed the nerfs to live, ignoring our feedback, the pros feedback...
What the actual funk?
01/30/2018 12:40 PMPosted by Shirokurou
Welp... And they just pushed the nerfs to live, ignoring our feedback, the pros feedback...
What the actual funk?

Lol "pro feedback" like what? "Remove mercy from the game" and "Resurrect doesnt belong in this game"? Yeah ok
01/30/2018 12:56 PMPosted by Stavros
01/30/2018 12:40 PMPosted by Shirokurou
Welp... And they just pushed the nerfs to live, ignoring our feedback, the pros feedback...
What the actual funk?

Lol "pro feedback" like what? "Remove mercy from the game" and "Resurrect doesnt belong in this game"? Yeah ok


Pretty sure even tho pros that despise Mercy have been saying that the recent changes are too harsh....
01/30/2018 09:37 AMPosted by jasonwocky
...
This may be true. But in the meantime Competitive Overwatch needs to be fixed. And contrary to what people here seem to think, "Reverting" is probably not as technically easy at this point as it sounds. The code for Mercy 1.0 is months old, hasn't been updated with any of the physics changes since then, hasn't been tested against the new map, etc. Toning current Mercy down is likely the only feasible option for now.

I pushed hard for a Revert a week after Mercy 2.0 was released. Back then it would have been easy, but everybody was downvoting me. Now look where we are.
Well, the jury's still out on the Physics changes, anyway, so there's that. Also, any company worth their money has proper source control, meaning a literal revert could be relatively easy.

Repository revert is only sufficient if there aren't any conflicts with changes that have been made since 1.0. And I'll bet you 5 Stanley Nickels that there would be plenty of conflicts that would need to be repaired and tested. Why go through that work if you're just going to continue reworking her anyway?
01/30/2018 01:20 PMPosted by jasonwocky
Repository revert is only sufficient if there aren't any conflicts with changes that have been made since 1.0. And I'll bet you 5 Stanley Nickels that there would be plenty of conflicts that would need to be repaired and tested. Why go through that work if you're just going to continue reworking her anyway?
Conflicts are easily fixed, especially if you're using something like GIT, which is far more clever about things than the other SCM's out there, and produces less conflicts. I've reverted stuff before with GIT, even changes that spanned more than 20 files and several hundreds of lines of code, and never had issues resolving any conflicts that arose.

As for testing the revert... they have to test every other change, anyway. Shouldn't be any different from the testing they went through for the initial rework.
...Well, the jury's still out on the Physics changes, anyway, so there's that. Also, any company worth their money has proper source control, meaning a literal revert could be relatively easy.

Repository revert is only sufficient if there aren't any conflicts with changes that have been made since 1.0. And I'll bet you 5 Stanley Nickels that there would be plenty of conflicts that would need to be repaired and tested. Why go through that work if you're just going to continue reworking her anyway?
Because square 1 is better than square -3.
01/06/2018 01:19 AMPosted by Alarstia
I was really on board with the rework initially... even though Valkyrie in the beginning was too strong. It was fun, dynamic, and impactful.

But now it's barely anything at all. You can fly... and heal. And it's shorter too. Very disappointing and not fun at all.


Exactly. Let’s look at instead which ults are not fun, dynamic and impactful and change those. That would help the “balance” more.
And maybe give rez to other healers not slowly and cruelly kill off the most effective one.

#RevertMercy

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