Fun Fact: Mercy 1.0 was Not OP

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Mercy wasnt OP, she was unfun to play against, and had nothing to do in the mid fight.

Now you are looking to see if you can pull off the rez, and the right time to ULT and help win a push.
01/28/2018 07:16 AMPosted by idcIFurLGBT
01/28/2018 07:15 AMPosted by Honchkrow
I believe all of her Averages also got cranked up to WUMBO!

Her average Rezzez went up despite being single target, healing, damage, you name it...


Maybe that's because Mercy was actually in the fight more than she used to be. Not hiding in a corner for half the game.

Another non-Mercy player spreading falsehoods. Pro tip: Mercy couldn't build an Ult if she was hiding, she had to be on the frontlines healing and boosting damage or she'd have no ult.
02/02/2018 10:57 AMPosted by DarkElixir
I maybe missing the point of your argument but the following have Ult's that cannot be countered and killing the character is the only way to ensure they don't use them: Sombra, Moira, Lucio, Zen, Widowmaker, Doomfist, Reinhardt

Why shouldn't Mercy have the same type of ability to do something near instantly?


You did get one of those right, my bad. Widow's ult can't be directly countered, though you can play around it since you know the enemy have wall hacks. The rest you are 100% wrong on.

  • Moira - First off, she can killed or even just stunned/silenced to stop it. It's a channel just like Rocket Barrage or High noon.
  • Lucio - You can kill/stun him during the animation to stop it. Also EMP completely negates it. Also you can just kite the enemy team for a few seconds and it does nothing.
  • Reinhardt - Again, you can kill/stun during animation to stop it. Also, shield it?
    Seriously, did you forget Reinhardt's ultimate can't be blocked by a shield?
  • Doomfist - Walk away from the glowing circle? Use any mobility or defensive ability? In a 1v1 there are just a few heroes that Doomfist with proper aim could guarantee a kill on (like Ana and Zen) but they can be shielded, bubbled, icewalled, etc to be saved by teammates.
  • Zen - Can still be killed by throwing off the map (when available). One-shots can kill Zen's teammates through heal (you know, like pulse bomb, rip tire, configuration tank, scatter shot, any sniper headshot, charge, rocket punch, etc. etc). Also, Ana's bio-nade totally negates it's effects
  • Sombra - Maybe the best example you have, there isn't really a direct way to counter it, but it can be played around easily. First, by just spreading out. Second,
    if you can simply kite the enemy team for a few seconds after. Sombra's ult's effects are minimal, without follow up it's useless. It's largest counter is just not letting the enemy team follow up.
  • So to summarize, we can sort these into two categories.

    1. A bunch of ults that can be completely countered, what were you smoking when you typed those out?

    2. Sombra/Widow's ults, which are both more easily played around and drastically less impactful than resurrecting your entire team.

    Another way to put it, any ult that has the possibility to kill an enemy in any way can be hard-countered. So when people say "Why is it okay for DPS to wipe with an ult but not a support to revive", that's the critical difference.
    not anymore
    02/02/2018 11:09 AMPosted by Ragnarok013
    01/28/2018 07:16 AMPosted by idcIFurLGBT
    ...

    Maybe that's because Mercy was actually in the fight more than she used to be. Not hiding in a corner for half the game.

    Another non-Mercy player spreading falsehoods. Pro tip: Mercy couldn't build an Ult if she was hiding, she had to be on the frontlines healing and boosting damage or she'd have no ult.


    Have to say, you're missing the point.

    Mercy would build ult and then run and hide. Obviously she isn't going to be sitting in a corner all game and hoping the passive charge gives her ult fast enough.

    But nowadays she stays with her team till the end. There is no hiding at all (no, using a wall for cover while you res with the cast time does not count as hiding, you are still telling both teams exactly where you are)..
    Honestly,
    wasn't the only the thing Mercy 1.0 mains were asking for back then, was a slight buff in her mobility?

    At least, that's what I recall.
    I don't really remember anyone asking for Rez to be a normal ability...
    02/02/2018 10:59 AMPosted by Crypticarts
    Mercy wasnt OP, she was unfun to play against, and had nothing to do in the mid fight.

    Now you are looking to see if you can pull off the rez, and the right time to ULT and help win a push.
    Lol, Mercy still doesn't have a mid-fight. The rework failed on any and all points it sought to address.
    Nothing to say #revertmercy I’m hella bored with her and her new play style press Q to save yourself is just selfish
    OP, you're absolutely right. She wasn't OP.

    She was toxic. There's a difference.

    Her "Hide & Seek" strat was anti-design. Not just to how she was meant to be played, but counter to how the entire game was meant to be played.
    01/28/2018 07:14 AMPosted by idcIFurLGBT
    Fun Fact: Mercy 1.0 was unhealthy for the game. It's objective, no matter how you look at it. A support who gets value out of their ultimate by letting their team die isn't a good thing.


    why the hell are you being down voted? Are people this blinded by their love/hate for certain characters? The sheer stupidity of the majority on these forums in cringe worthy as f.
    People in plat did not even care about mercy damageboosting bastion through the whole of gibraltar attack and ressing in middle of teamfight and not using guardian angel a single time to get away. They got past the last checkpoint.

    Anywhere else, the mercy would've gotten killed 10 times before they got to first checkpoint with platinum level tactics.

    You can literally get away with just pressing left or rigth click for 80% of this community. No wonder people wanted Mercy nerfed, they are literally incapable of even striking in her general direction or prioritising. Current slowmotion ress being unpunished tells the same story.

    Aka, 80% of the community needs to git gud before they can criticise about Mercy and mercy's gameplay. If you can't kill a literal damageboost bot doing nothing else, you don't have any say in what is overpowered and what is not.
    ...

    yea so much hiding: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IRp8E1TbPc&feature=youtu.be

    my position was obvious.. "hiding behind the corner".. am i supposed to be on the frontline? no! yet the zarya decides to use grav when she cannot be certain that i get in, using soldier, reaper and mercy ult as well. bad ultimate management got punished nothing more.
    Thats an excellent video example by the way. Great positioning, truly showing how balanced she was as well (You weren't taken out in an obvious position, and punished the enemy for Ult stacking for a team kill by undoing it. True and Fair in my book.)

    Here's mine, notice that the enemy has just destroyed my team, and I casually walk into view. Instead of attacking me, they let me in (You can even hear the enemy D.va saying hi to me, proving that they saw me) and I simply swoop and perform a team rez. Totally fair, because there was a huge opportunity to take me out, but they instead ignored it, and was punished.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfC7xe3EHYs&lc=z23nxd451xayxzh3zacdp43abupymyv3xwpubykxcvpw03c010c


    They saw you for maybe 1-1.5 seconds max, and it wasnt a casual stroll in because you used your dash. Their team composed of short range heroes (Junkrat, baby DVa, Winston, Reaper, Zen and Rein), how do you think they could kill a dashing Mercy (let alone a Mercy at any long distance)? Hence why your hp drops to low 30's once you are actually in the point. On top of that, watching it in slow-mo, you can see that only Junkrat and Reaper are looking in your direction when you fly in. Your skewed view on this is embarrassing. Oh, and it wasnt a 5 man, it was a 4 man rez as you can see in the kill feed.
    02/02/2018 11:11 AMPosted by FriendlyFire

  • Moira - First off, she can killed or even just stunned/silenced to stop it. It's a channel just like Rocket Barrage or High noon.
  • Lucio - You can kill/stun him during the animation to stop it. Also EMP completely negates it. Also you can just kite the enemy team for a few seconds and it does nothing.
  • Reinhardt - Again, you can kill/stun during animation to stop it. Also, shield it?
    Seriously, did you forget Reinhardt's ultimate can't be blocked by a shield?
  • Doomfist - Walk away from the glowing circle? Use any mobility or defensive ability? In a 1v1 there are just a few heroes that Doomfist with proper aim could guarantee a kill on (like Ana and Zen) but they can be shielded, bubbled, icewalled, etc to be saved by teammates.
  • Zen - Can still be killed by throwing off the map (when available). One-shots can kill Zen's teammates through heal (you know, like pulse bomb, rip tire, configuration tank, scatter shot, any sniper headshot, charge, rocket punch, etc. etc). Also, Ana's bio-nade totally negates it's effects
  • Sombra - Maybe the best example you have, there isn't really a direct way to counter it, but it can be played around easily. First, by just spreading out. Second,
    if you can simply kite the enemy team for a few seconds after. Sombra's ult's effects are minimal, without follow up it's useless. It's largest counter is just not letting the enemy team follow up.


  • I thought you said killing isn't a counter? Most of your examples are killing those characters to stop them using Ult, not directly countering the ult itself.

    You could kill or stun Mercy as she flew in to rez, you could EMP her, you could hook her, boop her off a wall, perhaps put up an ice wall to stop her reaching her target, hit her with a hammer down, grab her with a grav.

    So it looks like Mercy's ult could be countered according to your arguments. I'm not sure what you were smoking when you suggested it couldn't be.
    01/28/2018 07:00 AMPosted by xavvypls
    And she generally stayed underused until her rework.

    Back then Ana dominated the meta, with Lucio and Zen following after. Mercy was considered a troll-pick. A F-tier hero (D-tier at best), picking Mercy on the team didn't guarantee you a win in most cases.

    Now that Valkyrie is here, Mercy's pickrates and winrates grew out of control. And even after 4-5 Hard Nerfs, she's still a must pick. Even the most ambitious of Mercy's critics can't deny that her rework was largely a mistake. And the devs trying to work with her Ultimate in E-Move form has been an even messier process to fix - They generally dislike the PTR mercy and it's nerfs.

    Well, if it's not obvious enough by looking at her history, there's an old saying...
    If it ain't broke, don't "fix" it.

    It's time to bring Mercy back to her grassroots. It's time for her to be balanced again. True and fair balance. Move her E move back where it belongs, as an Ultimate, and work on balancing her from there.

    It's time to revert. #RevertMercy


    No. Mercy 1.0 needed the rework.

    Resurrect is a controversial subject because there is no counter play. She was not reworked because a bunch of DPS mains cried about it. She was originally reworked because her ultimate encouraged "unintuitive" (at least according to Blizzard) behavior, and the fact that there was zero counter play to resurrect.

    Genji uses dragonblade? Sleep dart him.
    Reaper uses deathblossom? Defense matrix him.
    McCree uses high noon? Mei wall in front of him.
    Zarya uses graviton surge? Transcendence it.
    Roadhog uses whole hog? Flashbang him.
    D.va uses self destruct? Zarya bubble your teammate.
    Lucio uses sound barrier? EMP everyone.
    Mercy uses resurrect from spawn? Literally nothing you can do.

    Overwatch is a game built on countering your opponent. Having an ability in the game with literally zero counterplay goes against the games design philosophy and should be removed -- which it has.

    The rework is successful in that it adds some counterplay to resurrect -- it can be interrupted. The rework also succeeds in shifting Mercy's focus away from resurrect and more towards raw healing output.
    02/02/2018 11:11 AMPosted by FriendlyFire


    You did get one of those right, my bad. Widow's ult can't be directly countered, though you can play around it since you know the enemy have wall hacks. The rest you are 100% wrong on.


    Res was the only ult that could be countered by the enemy team actively managing their ult and playing competently. i.e. waiting until the res to use one ult rather than dumping 2-3 at a time to get that sweet sweet POTG.

    Sparing that there's Deadeye which will deal 200+ damage by the time anyone being res'd can even move. Or go with the poor man's Deadeye, lining up headshots on immobile, glowing targets.
    She may not have been OP but the playstyle was hurting the competitive mode in all tiers. That's why she needed to be changed.

    Blizzard has already gone on record saying that they will not revert Mercy because it had its own set of problems. If you can't realize that, then you're part of a larger problem within the game.
    the fact that there was zero counter play to resurrect.

    Overwatch is a game built on countering your opponent. Having an ability in the game with literally zero counterplay goes against the games design philosophy and should be removed -- which it has.

    The rework is successful in that it adds some counterplay to resurrect -- it can be interrupted. The rework also succeeds in shifting Mercy's focus away from resurrect and more towards raw healing output.


    Yes, the counter play is managing kills and ultimates. But that doesn't get any clicks or views in the current state of the game, thus the whining by some top players. It's also the only ult that can !@#$ your teammates over.

    There's a clip of a game where Seagull plays against a Mercy, and he starts shouting and screaming even when the enemy Mercy actually handed them the game by rezzing two people on point only to stagger them. Earlier he even started yelling as soon as she was flying in, going on a long rant about res, but she simply got stunned and killed.

    So if anyone actually lost games to a team 5v6 where the Mercy was hiding and picking her nose half the time, it's likely they would have lost anyway. A Torb instead of Mercy prob would have made it a harder fight.
    Just here for a message to all you DPS mains that flame Mercy for being toxic.

    Every time I die to a one shot by any of you it's frustrating. Every time that sneaking reaper clicks his Q from behind and kills all my teammates, cause I can't shout "RUN A REAPER", it's frustrating. Every time I get pushed into the wall by a reinheart while I'm mid air with my guardian it's frustrating. Every time I die in 1 hit by a widow/hanzo hit that lands on my foot, shoulder, breast, knee I get frustrating. Every time I hear a Moira or Symmetra walking towards me I get frustrating.

    Every single time I waste my nervs to heal people who just simply can't shoot and die anyways I get frustrating. Every single time I res someone and he leaves me to die like a dog, so he can chase a tracer I get frustrating. Every time tracer/sombra appear behind me out of the gloom and I die in 0.1 sec I get frustrating. Every time I hide behind a wall and for some random reason D.va or Junk ult kills me I get frustrating. Every time I get hooked by a Road and die in 1 hit I get frustrating.

    So when you ungrateful children (Yes, children, cause I'm like your mother every time I'm Mercy), come to this forum and cry how her resurrection is frustrating, I just wanna find you and slap you so hard, so your brain can finally start working...

    It's seriously annoying how these people think only for their "kills" and how they may or may not get denied, but don't actually think of the suffering and frustration we Doctor Angela "Mercy" Ziegler mains have to live every match.

    I bought this game a year and half ago, because Mercy was an amazing hero with a great and inspiring voice line filled with ambition. "Heroes never Die". She had a great gameplay and was joyful to play. After the whining of DPS mains I totally lost desire to play her, even if I still managed to make her my top pick. Currently I don't even wanna log into the game cause, mommy isn't feeling well and she can't take care of the ungrateful children.

    Here's the continuing of my 2 cents about the current state.

    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20761806219#
    02/02/2018 11:41 AMPosted by DarkElixir
    I thought you said killing isn't a counter? Most of your examples are killing those characters to stop them using Ult, not directly countering the ult itself.

    You could kill or stun Mercy as she flew in to rez, you could EMP her, you could hook her, boop her off a wall, perhaps put up an ice wall to stop her reaching her target, hit her with a hammer down, grab her with a grav.

    So it looks like Mercy's ult could be countered according to your arguments. I'm not sure what you were smoking when you suggested it couldn't be.


    Are you intentionally being retarded? You can kill all those heroes AFTER they use their ult and completely negate the effect, while making them lose the ult charge.

    That was literally impossible with Mercy. It was instant upon button press. The ult is not counterable. Even if you kill her before she can ult, she comes back with it.

    One more time, just to be clear: Countering an ult means countering the hero AFTER they hit Q. Not killing them before they have a chance to. You put a cast time of Mercy's resurrect ult, so she can be stunned/killed during it, which wastes the charge for 0 resurrects and I'll happily support that version of the ult.

    02/02/2018 11:50 AMPosted by Xerus
    Res was the only ult that could be countered by the enemy team actively managing their ult and playing competently. i.e. waiting until the res to use one ult rather than dumping 2-3 at a time to get that sweet sweet POTG.


    Only ult that can be countered by managing ults? Because transcendance is never saved for blade/graviton or anything like that...

    But yeah, it's so easy to save ultimates to efficiently wipe the enemy team twice in a row. It's not like the other team will have more than just resurrec to stop you if you have multiple ults.

    That was the game. Mercy's team forces you to use ults to get the first wipe, then gets resurrected with their own. It tended to get the Mercy's team a large ult advantage.

    Sparing that there's Deadeye which will deal 200+ damage by the time anyone being res'd can even move.


    Maybe that works quickplay where there are zero tanks. You ever hear of a shield?

    Or go with the poor man's Deadeye, lining up headshots on immobile, glowing targets.


    Lul, you don't even know how the ability worked. You could move before you lost invincibility. Jesus christ...

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