Blues: Dva leave game to prevent stagger

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01/22/2018 10:22 AMPosted by Qube
... and there you've answered your own question.


It's abusing game mechanics to stagger a Dva as well. Taking full advantage of every resource available that's intended to be there is abuse. That differentiates exploiting an invincibilty glitch from a DVa leaving. No one can answer this question but a blue.


It absolutely is not abusing game mechanics to stagger dva. That is using Hero Abilities to gain an advantage in team fights.

Disconnecting from a game to dodge something, and then reconnecting is NOT the same as using hero abilities, and you are lying to yourself if you think otherwise.
A baby dva stagger can eat a full minute off of the attacking team's time if done properly.

While a viable tactic, I don't think it's healthy for the game to 6v1 bully pilot dva... To prevent this, or at least reduce the effectiveness of this tactic, I propose adding a "recall" ability to the game. Channel for eight seconds, and reappear at current spawn. This channel leaves you completely vulnerable to damage and unable to do anything, but will not be canceled by damage or crowd control abilities. Now, if a baby dva stagger is attempted, the maximum stagger time is 18 seconds (Channel + Kill her at last second).

This way, she still gets staggered but not to such a ridiculous extent.
01/22/2018 10:24 AMPosted by Xenmas021
It's abusing game mechanics to stagger a Dva as well. Taking full advantage of every resource available that's intended to be there is abuse. That differentiates exploiting an invincibilty glitch from a DVa leaving. No one can answer this question but a blue.


Quitting a match isn't considered a 'resource', as leavers are consistently punished. Why do you need a blue post to tell you that leaving a match for any reason is ok?

At the same time, stalling a D.Va (or any character for that matter) is not only allowed, but smart play. Preventing a tank from grouping up with their friends is what Mei does best, hence the wall ability.

Seems like some players think that stalling is worse, or even reportable? What a joke.
Both sides should report each other. Smash that report button guys
Give baby Dva a cyanide pill :c
If you guys want a clip of exactly what op means in his description. I’m not a blue, but if this wasn’t done by the player intentionally ( which is difficult to prove unless he constantly did it during the match), he can’t be banned for rejoining a match if his WiFi glitched out for a sec and he rejoined instantly.

https://streamerclips.com/twitch/jardio/ExcitedSwissCiderNinjaGrumpy
This player wanted to win so bad that they took an SR penalty, Ult Charge penalty, a risk of getting automatically banned for leaving, not by using external software or exploiting glitches, but by using a button already in the game...

And you want to ban them for that? What's next, "ban them because they looked into our profiles on the Social tab and pre-countered our most used heroes" ?

Come on guys, you're getting way too salty about a cheap tactic being countered by another far riskier cheap tactic.
There should just be a suicide button for everyone. Staggering is a terrible gameplay element. It is neither interesting nor strategically compelling. It's like watching a football team run out the clock, just a reason for me to get out of my chair and leave.
That was a 200 IQ move. Dude can stay salty. Staggering is a terrible game mechanic anyway.
01/22/2018 11:11 AMPosted by Neospartan
This player wanted to win so bad that they took an SR penalty, Ult Charge penalty, a risk of getting automatically banned for leaving, not by using external software or exploiting glitches, but by using a button already in the game...

And you want to ban them for that? What's next, "ban them because they looked into our profiles on the Social tab and pre-countered our most used heroes" ?

Come on guys, you're getting way too salty about a cheap tactic being countered by another far riskier cheap tactic.

the only reason I can see someone doing this is if they're boosting their friend.

Getting staggered is a huge time sink, and if your connection and computer is fast enough, leaving and joining a game can potentially be an advantage. So D.Va player does it to lose 50sr but his buddy will still gain 20ish if they win.

Otherwise, why bother? Taking 50 sr loss so random strangers can earn 20?
01/22/2018 10:42 AMPosted by Krows
01/22/2018 10:24 AMPosted by Xenmas021
It's abusing game mechanics to stagger a Dva as well. Taking full advantage of every resource available that's intended to be there is abuse. That differentiates exploiting an invincibilty glitch from a DVa leaving. No one can answer this question but a blue.


Quitting a match isn't considered a 'resource', as leavers are consistently punished. Why do you need a blue post to tell you that leaving a match for any reason is ok?

At the same time, stalling a D.Va (or any character for that matter) is not only allowed, but smart play. Preventing a tank from grouping up with their friends is what Mei does best, hence the wall ability.

Seems like some players think that stalling is worse, or even reportable? What a joke.


Is quitting a match to help your team ok? Answer that. Not one of the other 5 players on the leaving Dva's team would have an issue with what the Dva did. Riddle me this, genius, what is the general goal of punishing leavers? What is the consequence that is targeted by punishing leavers? If your answer is "prevent unfairly lost matches" we have a paradox here. That is my point.
01/22/2018 05:51 AMPosted by Rain3d
01/22/2018 05:46 AMPosted by Lumin
With that said, I'm pretty sure you take a 50SR hit even if you win if you leave mid-game. So, the D.Va still lost SR even if they won that one. That isn't worth it and is already a big incentive not to do it.

No. You get the SR back if you rejoin fast enough and are present when the match ends.
Nope. You lose 50 sr anyway,even if you win the match.
Unless they reverted that change recently,of course.
01/22/2018 11:25 AMPosted by Xenmas021
Is quitting a match to help your team ok? Answer that. Not one of the other 5 players on the leaving Dva's team would have an issue with what the Dva did. Riddle me this, genius, what is the general goal of punishing leavers? What is the consequence that is targeted by punishing leavers? If your answer is "prevent unfairly lost matches" we have a paradox here. That is my point.


Quitting a match for any reason is not ok, which is why Blizzard even has consequences in the first place. Of course her team wouldn't complain about D.Va abusing such an exploit. The same way a team wouldn't complain about Genji's and Hanzo's crashing the server they were all on if they were about to lose (you know, before that exploit was fixed).

If you consider baby D.Va solo versus the entire enemy team an unfair match, then congrats I suppose. 1v6 IS unfair. The thing is, there wasn't an exploit that made that situation occur, just bad D.Va play. Baby D.Va is a frail, weak character by Blizzard's design. If an enemy team manages to actually corner her by herself, then they deserve the chance to stagger her. Not saying it makes for interesting viewing, or that it is exciting watching a team take another 30 seconds to group up, just saying it is completely within the game's parameters.
Jardio was abusing in-game hero mechanics, the D.Va used an unintended exploit to gain an advantage. It’s cheating in my book
01/22/2018 11:16 AMPosted by DishonestAbe
It's like watching a football team run out the clock, just a reason for me to get out of my chair and leave.


That is a great comparison, especially with how Blizz wants their precious OWL to be all exciting and popular and a proper esport. Higher levels is where this happens most, so the OWl has lots of it going on. It's not fun or skillful to watch, and it is FAR worse to be on the receiving end in game. Blizz is known to change things due to it being very unfun too.

Just another thing to add to the pile as to why D.Va needs a way to have some proper counterplay to it, best thing having ejection be an option when the MEKA dies, like many(including myself) have mentioned in this thread. Christ I've talked about it on these forums for ages and wanted it for even longer. Makes me happy it's becoming a more hot topic since that means it might get addressed at some point.
It's all completely beside the point.
Mei is a low tier character and to play her well, you need to be extremely creative and intelligent. She literally doesn't see any playtime in OWL. For a reason.

Now you have a Mei player who manages to use (NOT abuse) the character's abilities to put an enemy player at a disadvantage. A player of the character which is a nearly 100% must pick in OWL teams.
First of all, I don't see how this is in any way "cheating" or "exploiting" anything. If Blizzard didn't intend this situation to happen, they need to change either D'Va or Mei or both. Until they do, staggering D'Va is PERFECTLY OK.

Hell, Mei is basically mainly good at irritating opposing players. So Jardio played her AS INTENDED.

Saying it's "not fun" to be staggered is completely stupid. Getting shot and killed as any hero is "not fun" as well. So do we remove it from the game?

Also - if apparently two players were focusing their attention on staggering the baby D'Va so long, then the rest of her team might have used it to their advantage. Should have probably. If they didn't - bad teamwork.

On the other side you have a player literally "leaving the boundaries of the game". Intentionally going out. This is a mechanic that can't be patched or removed (you can't force people to stay in-game as RL is always more important) and is clearly NOT intended as it was used. Which simply means cheating.

So the D'Va player should get punished somehow (in addition to the SR loss they probably got, anyway).

Walking back to spawn and changing heroes to get mech back is by the way also just using normal game mechanics. The ult charge is gone, it takes time, so there's a penalty. But it's definitely not the same as DCing.
Live by the cheese, die by the cheese.
01/21/2018 09:23 PMPosted by Bansheebot
She could have a "Self-Recall" which would effectively be a suicide button.

Maybe it could start on cooldown so D.Va still maintains that vulnerable period?

or using it activates a countdown, just so it's not an insta-dip if you get caught, that way the enemy can have a chance to get ult charge off of you, rather than torture and stagger you.
01/21/2018 09:27 PMPosted by DaSquyd
That's abuse of mechanics in my book. Though, if the DVa player ended up losing, he'd lose a bunch of SR.


Not anymore since Skill based sr is gonzo.
01/22/2018 12:37 PMPosted by Haezurath
01/21/2018 09:27 PMPosted by DaSquyd
That's abuse of mechanics in my book. Though, if the DVa player ended up losing, he'd lose a bunch of SR.


Not anymore since Skill based sr is gonzo.

Don't leavers lose 50 by default though? And I saw reports that losses were -30 sr.

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