ELI5 Reaper can hide and Q but Mercy cant?

General Discussion
How many times have you killed the mercy early on temple of anubis and immediately rushed 2nd point for a team wipe only for mercy to press 1 button in her spawn and revive her whole team on the point.

Broken.
01/16/2018 02:03 AMPosted by Malmortus
How many times have you killed the mercy early on temple of anubis and immediately rushed 2nd point for a team wipe only for mercy to press 1 button in her spawn and revive her whole team on the point.

Broken.

Rezzing from spawn was disabled. It was the last balance change Mercy got before the rework.
01/16/2018 01:02 AMPosted by Edgelord
01/16/2018 12:18 AMPosted by PraiseTheFun
...

Not blowing 6 ultimates when you only need one or two.

Repositioning while the animation plays and her team are helpless to stop you from going where you please.

EMP, Rip Tire or Self Destruct. The rezed team can't spread out in time to evade these. Boom, free second wipe.


I am so sick of the whole "not using 6 ultimates" argument...first of all literally no one above f**king like silver does that, second of all her ult itself still had no counter play and like the other guy said, if you think any of those are a guaranteed teamwipe no wonder why you think mass res or res in general belongs in this game...

And now you finally understand what it feels like when people use the bull!@#$ "hide and rez" argument. It is exactly the same %^-*ing situation, a lot of people saying "that's what they do" when they really don't.
While i am not on board that old mercies ress was overpowered in any way shape or form. It was in my eyes unfun but not OP.

Reaper's ult has so much counters:
Defense matrix
Flashbang
Hook
Rocket punch
Killing him fast
Insert random barrier
Trans
Deflect
Booped in another direction (not in your team LUCIO)

EDIT:
I forgot this one getting the f out his way!
01/16/2018 02:40 AMPosted by Huckleberry
While i am not on board that old mercies ress was overpowered in any way shape or form. It was in my eyes unfun but not OP.

Reaper's ult has so much counters:
Defense matrix
Flashbang
Hook
Rocket punch
Killing him fast
Insert random barrier
Trans
Deflect
Booped in another direction (not in your team LUCIO)
i once ulted in very stupid place and Lucio booped me middle of their backline got 4 kills and potg :D
01/16/2018 12:10 AMPosted by Ariana
mercy's old res had no counterplay;reaper ult have billions counter plays.
then they should have changed THAT in stead of this horrible mess
Did he ult on you when you rez'd is that it? Why hate on specifically reaper? Until I saw this post I forgot he even existed.
I don't wanna say Rez 1.0 has no counter play because it isn't. However, it is not appropriate to justify hide n rez by comparing it with Reaper/McCree/Pharah either.

The most significant difference is that rez is instant, while others are channeled ultimates. This means they are locked into their position, or can only perform very predictive and easy to hit movement within the duration. This is EXACTLY why these heroes have to take their position before using the ultimate to avoid dying and interrupts. On the other hand, Mercy gains 2s of invulnerability and resets GA upon rez, and does not suffer from any drawbacks of the "hide-n-ult" heroes.

Other than that I would like to compare the stats of those ult too

Reaper :
Speed : 60% Original
TtK : 1.18s
Range : 8m AoE, LoS

McCree :
Speed : 35% Oringinal
TtK : 1s
Range : Infinite, LoS
Others : Makes you a glowing Christmas tree

Pharah :
Speed : 0% Oringinal
TtK : ~1s due to spread
Range : 9m Optimal, LoS

and Mercy :
Speed : 364% Original
"TtK" : Instant
Range : 15m, AoE, no LoS required
Others : Grants 2s Invulnerability, reset GA cooldown

So you see why those heroes is almost required to get into a hiding position before ulting, while Mercy is really, really far from that.
Stop comparing DPS ultimates to a healer ultimate.

First of all, if your Reaper hides for two minutes, he is a terrible player since he is not contributing to the team.

When people talk about a McCree or Reaper hiding they forget something, these characters are usually hiding behind/near the enemy, Mercy didn't do that, she hid further behind her own team, making it immensely harder for the enemy team to deny her the ress.

We shouldn't compare ultimates, but let's switch some stuff around, McCree will now instantly delete every enemy within a certain radius when he presses Q.

When Mercy resses she has to walk out slowly from cover, glowing like the sun, be LoS and lock on her teammates a few seconds before they will get resurrected.
The reason they gave is that Mercy's main job is supposed to be healing, and hiding to res meant deliberately not doing her main job for the sake of her ult.
Reaper's ult IS his main job - kill stuff.
01/16/2018 12:16 AMPosted by UkeNicky
Always a counter argument to old rez
Nobody will ever be happy
Everyone hates Mercy
Find another
The end

Your life is so hard
1.reaper is flanker. mercy isnt.
2.reaper cant kill instantly. mercy can rez instantly.
3.reapers ult is easily counterable. mercy rez had no counterplay.
4.reaper is trash. mercy is op.
01/16/2018 01:02 AMPosted by Edgelord
01/16/2018 12:18 AMPosted by PraiseTheFun
...

Not blowing 6 ultimates when you only need one or two.

Repositioning while the animation plays and her team are helpless to stop you from going where you please.

EMP, Rip Tire or Self Destruct. The rezed team can't spread out in time to evade these. Boom, free second wipe.


I am so sick of the whole "not using 6 ultimates" argument...first of all literally no one above f**king like silver does that, second of all her ult itself still had no counter play and like the other guy said, if you think any of those are a guaranteed teamwipe no wonder why you think mass res or res in general belongs in this game...
Stop defining counterplay as "Killed before using it" FFS. There are tons of ways you can counter rez (especially if you didn't blow all your ults). Resurrect gives you two seconds to reposition in order to make the required second team wipe easier.

> Be Reaper with ult
> See enemy Mercy ulting
> Move to stand in the middle and wait for invuln to wear off
> Press Q
> Easy team wipe
01/16/2018 12:10 AMPosted by Ariana
mercy's old res had no counterplay;


Sombra EMP.
High Noon.
Death Blossom.
Attack Visor
Blizzard
Graviton

Etc etc.

Don't lie and say there wasnt counterplay.

It was called counter-ults.
01/16/2018 12:18 AMPosted by PraiseTheFun
01/16/2018 12:11 AMPosted by Gerb
Counters to Old Rez:


Not blowing 6 ultimates when you only need one or two.

Repositioning while the animation plays and her team are helpless to stop you from going where you please.

EMP, Rip Tire or Self Destruct. The rezed team can't spread out in time to evade these. Boom, free second wipe.
Also a Mei wall, preventing her from reaching her destination to rez. Flashbang, hook, everything that cancels Mercys movement to reach the point. People act like it had no counterplay, when it actually did.
If the Mercy could undo most of your teamkills, you better work on your gamesense, cause that's embarrassing
Eh, killing Mercy wasn't realistic with her old ultimate.

What was realistic was saving your ultimates for after the Mass Res. Because if you barely won a 5v6 and lose because of the Mercy Res, did you really deserve to win the teamfight in the first place?

Mass Res was specifically built to counter wombo combos. If you didn't save them for after Res was used (or Mercy was dead), then you deserved to have your ultimates erased.
01/16/2018 04:21 AMPosted by Miikumon
01/16/2018 12:18 AMPosted by PraiseTheFun
...

Not blowing 6 ultimates when you only need one or two.

Repositioning while the animation plays and her team are helpless to stop you from going where you please.

EMP, Rip Tire or Self Destruct. The rezed team can't spread out in time to evade these. Boom, free second wipe.
Also a Mei wall, preventing her from reaching her destination to rez. Flashbang, hook, everything that cancels Mercys movement to reach the point. People act like it had no counterplay, when it actually did.
If the Mercy could undo most of your teamkills, you better work on your gamesense, cause that's embarrassing
i have had a rein charge me preventing a 4 person rez in the last few seconds
I congratulated that rein,it was funny and amazing as F

Guardian angel is fast but predictable, LOS would take care of a mercy hiding behind a wall to rez
  • Death blossom is countered much more easily
  • Reaper is hiding in enemy territory. He runs a risk of being discovered and being ganged up on. Mercy hides in friendly territory. Barely any risk of being discovered, and even then it's just one enemy
  • a Reaper hiding is doing his job. He is in enemy territory, preparing a surprise attack, ready at a moment's notice. A Mercy hiding is not doing her job. She leaves her teammates to fight 5v6 without her healing/damageboost, usually outright telling them to die
01/16/2018 12:10 AMPosted by Ariana
mercy's old res had no counterplay;reaper ult have billions counter plays.

Try killing the medics first LOL
01/16/2018 12:11 AMPosted by Gerb
Counters to Death Blossom:
Sound Barrier, Trans, Hook, Flashbang, Defense Matrix, Deflect, Boop, EMP, Hack, Killing Him

Counters to Old Rez:

There's also any shield blocking it, Genji can deflect, Tracer recalls away, Doomfist can punch him out, Pharah is probably not close anyway, Mei can Ice or Wall, Junkrat can send you flying with mines, anyone with armour takes very little damage, Moira can fade.

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