What caused the Mercy outrage?

General Discussion
01/13/2018 06:02 PMPosted by EMc73
There wasn't a big outrage prior to the rework.


There absolutely was a big outrage about it.

Saying that there weren't basically 50 threads a day about "boosted Mercy mains" and streamers like Taimou or Seagulls remarks on it is silly.

Realistically it wasn't even a problem with Mercy balance-wise. People could just game the system to climb with obscenely low win-rates by gaming the "Performance Based SR", which again isn't a problem with Mercy so much as it is a garbage system that rewarded poor play because it looked good on paper.
01/13/2018 06:15 PMPosted by Awkward
There absolutely was a big outrage about it.

Saying that there weren't basically 50 threads a day about "boosted Mercy mains" and streamers like Taimou or Seagulls remarks on it is silly.

Realistically it wasn't even a problem with Mercy balance-wise. People could just game the system to climb with obscenely low win-rates by gaming the "Performance Based SR", which again isn't a problem with Mercy so much as it is a garbage system that rewarded poor play because it looked good on paper.


The flaws in the SR system were a different matter entirely, and have been fixed.

The actual gameplay element Mercy introduced wasn't widely hated, except by the odd angry Seagull.
Mercy rez is the whole problem of mercy it is THE ONLY Ability in game that could decide a win or.
loss back in season 1 when mercy had her 5 man rez everybody would play her since rez was such a big thing it was like playing 6vs12 players if the enemy didn't have a mercy. strip mercy of her rez give her valk back and let her splash heal while valking give her E something else maybe a pull ability to pull enemys in, or teammates out of situations.
01/13/2018 05:31 PMPosted by Starlight
The last buff she got when she had mass rez was in February 28th, 2017 which was the invuln she got when she was rezzing. The buff was 11 months ago and Winstons was about 10 months ago, the team comp was Winston,Dva,Tracer,Genji,Lucio and Zen. Dive became popular around June/July of 2017 so how did months after Mercy's buff did she become broken and OP as people said. I don't understand why there wasn't an outcry during February and the month after but it all began around September so my question is why did the Mercy nerf outrage begin there when she never got a buff since the date i stated?

Please do not close my thread and tell me to go post on the megathread because everyone knows that we're getting sent there to post for no reason because every suggestion everyone posted was ignored and we never got a "That's a great idea" or a "That won't work because..."


Uh she received a buff when they reworked her abilities and ult, that is when she got the massive buff and made her completely broken.
Thing is there is still boosted mercy main in GM, and if they rework her, in part for that, it fails

They have to reset the mmr of everyone, enough of seing support popping in such ranks and get game when no one can switch and only tunnel play mercy
01/13/2018 05:52 PMPosted by Shade
It was most likely a combination of two things. People disliking the hide and rez playstyle and how it was used to game the SR system.


^ basically this.

I'll elaborate.

After rez invuln her popularity began to snowball. This lead to Mercy having a vastly different stat set that her pre-buff. Essentially it became the fiasco of "UP heros give more SR per win because they aren't played as much." Basically watch any youtube video on this.

Because her popularity began to spike, "hunt the mercy" became commonplace (not nearly as popular as Mercy's pickrate now). So any game a Mercy existed, you either killed her first... or you killed her 12th. This irked a lot of people because it became a chore, and everyone knows that us, humans, all hate chores.

This is when "hide and seek" Mercy started peeking it's head in the problems bin. Hide and seek Mercy wasn't a problem because it was in every game, it was a problem when it was in a game. However long ago, a video of Seagull playing on Horizon showed a Mercy camp in spawn because she had rez. This demonstrated the problem of "hide and seek Mercy." It's not like every Mercy camped in spawn, it was when. And since Mercy was rising in popularity, this is when the community got fed up with her.

The Mercy mains saying "the DPS mains just hated how rez could undo their noskill teamwipes" are just ignorant. They look at the problem how they want to, and thus many Mercy mains, not support mains, treat DPS like the boogeyman.

Mercy is my 4th most played hero, and I played her most in seasons 3 and 4. After that her popularity started rising and I started disliking the hero.

Mercy is broken because of her kit. She was designed as a hero within the OW mindset, of heros. Blizzard designed her to be a healer, and most of her kit was built around her personality. The problem is that OW has turned into a competitive game so that whole backstory really doesn't complement the game nor her spot within.

Thus came the rework. Blizzard knew they had to change her from old to current OW, so they thought giving her more in-the-battle playstyles would allow her and the mains to adapt to the new comp environment. It wasn't the DPS main outcry, because look at the Sym and Mei outcries, they are literally having 0 effect on balance.

When her rework hit, Blizzard though they hit the sweet spot, but it only showed that Rez has no place in a competitive-oriented game. Old OW? Rez was perfect. But they constantly adapted rez to the competitive direction, all while not trying to piss off the Mercy mains. It seems like after 6 months, them trying to appease the mains with tiny nerfs that had 0 effect on her.

This all explains why Blizzard had removed any and every aspect of fun about her. She is now only a healbot. The 1 rez she has will tell whether this nerf was successful or not, but overall Mercy is the type of hero that cannot be adapted to the new competitive nature. Same with Junk. This is why people go after the "easy" heros and say that they shouldn't be in esports.

To a degree, they shouldn't because "easy" heros aren't built around a tier system (entry level > pro league). They are built for accessibility. That's the problem with Mercy.

The DPS boogeyman aren't to blame.
Mercy mains wanting buffs aren't to blame.
It's Blizzard and them being so cautious with balance that it does more harm than good, and we see that with Mercy.
01/13/2018 06:19 PMPosted by EMc73
The flaws in the SR system were a different matter entirely, and have been fixed.

The actual gameplay element Mercy introduced wasn't widely hated, except by the odd angry Seagull.


The complaints about the SR system and Mercy's design went hand in hand.

The "boosted Mercy main" wasn't just aimed at her being able to abuse the SR system. It was aimed at her because the argument was that a 4k Mercy wasn't even a 3k player on any other hero.

The SR abusing was by far the biggest problem, but people blended in that legitimate complaint with their own dislike for Mercy.
People learned how to abuse the SR system and there were those Mercy's that would only go for a big res. You would have them screaming at you to die on point which was irritating because a lot of times had they been healing you, you would have been able to win that fight.

I know that a lot of this forum likes mercy a lot. I get it, she is accessible and a lot of you might not have had FPS backgrounds and you find that she allows you to have an impact beyond what you would be able to have. I get it. But, you have to realize that in this game, numbers advantage is probably the biggest thing you can have. Res takes that away. Res has had so many changes because they are never going to be able to balance it properly. She negates too much for basically nothing and as long as she has res, she will never be balanced.

It wasnt the DPS mains crying about Mercy negating their ultimates. Zen and Lucio can just as easily do that. It was the fact that she negated ultimate COMBO's from a lot of hero's including ones that take a substantial amount of time to set up. While tac visor isnt the most skillful ultimate, it still takes the proper positioning and timing, mainly de-meching D.Va and breaking shields and then making sure that they dont have a Trance or Sound barrier to counter it. When they added the immunity frames it took away the risk of going into res, which was the downside of old res in that when she res'd she was probably going to die. Doing so was not only frustrating when you tried to kill as she flew in, as many times it felt that it activated the I frames after the fact and it was favored by the netcode, but then to just see her fly right off because of the continued I frames. you could get a sick grav, nade them, and destroy their whole team but because you killed the mercy too soon in that team fight, here she comes flying back in, AFTER you had killed her first, to undo all that work.
01/13/2018 06:12 PMPosted by Jask
Blame bad DPS players. Honestly.

None of them could figure out, "Hey, if I make Mercy a priority target like I'm supposed to, she won't be able to rez! I just have to do my job!"

So nobody would kill Mercy. And team rezzes would happen. Then the particularly butthurt sum of players would come crying to the forum that Rez is too strong, remove it, it's unfair, etc etc.

After almost two entire years of non stop complaints by bad DPS players who couldn't figure out how to focus the Supports, Blizzard was forced to address Mercy. The player base got what they wanted. But they didn't know what they were asking for, and now we're stuck in this mess.


The problem was only Genji and Tracer were able to find her while she was hiding
01/13/2018 06:15 PMPosted by Awkward
Realistically it wasn't even a problem with Mercy balance-wise. People could just game the system to climb with obscenely low win-rates by gaming the "Performance Based SR", which again isn't a problem with Mercy so much as it is a garbage system that rewarded poor play because it looked good on paper.


I'm 99% sure that the complaints around Mercy were her rez, and not the exploit of Performanced Based SR. I don't even know if the exploit was the target of the complaints. The Overwhelming majority of players didn't know about the exploit, and it's not like they really could have achieved it anyway.

The reason why Blizzard changed mercy was because 5 Man rezes did not feel good, and it promoted holding ults for the most rezzing, exploit existing or not.
See I think what people were mad about is that Mercy basically negated good team work and ult comboing with one press of a button, which lets be honest is not very fair and you can say "oh just target the Mercy all day long" but at the end of the day if you are in a big team fight honestly the last thing you are worried about is where the Mercy is, like if there is a Reaper tearing your tanks a new one or a Pharah using her ult you are worried more about keeping them alive over worrying about what the Mercy is doing...I mean its different now, every teamfight just starts with wheres the Mercy, kill the Mercy but my point is Mercy negated good teamwork to easily and too often.
I just don't get how even if mercy hid, it was a problem. Some DPS do the same thing. They stop shooting, leave the fight, and set up for the big ult.

Even so lets break it down:
Its a 6 on 6 team fight, mercy predicts ults are coming and distances herself from the fight but doesn't hide yet. Your telling me not 1 of 6 enemy players are tracking mercy? Hero's are doing 180 snap shots, dodging, changing position. So these enemy's have seen a 360 degree view 10 times during the fight and not once did their eye catch the mercy so even if she did hide they knew where she was? I call B.S. An excuse to this may be "mercys high mobility makes her hard to track" Okay....that clearly means she wasn't hiding, and instead found good positioning to pull of the rez.
Heck, I used to get so annoyed that my team just didn't pay attention to the enemy mercy that I would have to pull out my blaster pistol and do it myself.

Its like people seem to think that Mercy predicting her team was about to get team wiped by a grav combo was unfair? So when a mercy sees an enemy Zarya come close to the fight mercy should just dive into the middle of the team and maintain healing. WTF?

I guess people felt like mercy should be like" Hey, my team is about to get wiped, instead of using my ult to save them, I should hop in and die with them so I maintain my healing!"
01/13/2018 05:48 PMPosted by Starlight
01/13/2018 05:40 PMPosted by WhateverAlex
Because people whined about their kills being undone and would rather forego intelligent thought and strategy for spamming 6 ults and winning. It's a gaming community of easily tilted players, what did you expect?


I don't understand why balance falls under that if there was outrage after the patch or ptr then changes should be thought of but if people start calling for nerfs 10 months later then they should know it's tilted people or people who are trying to blame the hero for them being outplayed.
People whined 4 months after the invulnerability buff, but Mercy was out for quite a while beforehand and still had mass-rezz just often died after rezzing which rendered her teammates dead because they didn't have a healer. I don't know if 4 months is long enough to deem it salty players, but I feel like it probably was.
People whining about mercy seemed to crop up around the same time Hog got his big nerf. Guess the hivemind needed a new target to screech about.
01/13/2018 06:22 PMPosted by Hajuhn
01/13/2018 05:31 PMPosted by Starlight
The last buff she got when she had mass rez was in February 28th, 2017 which was the invuln she got when she was rezzing. The buff was 11 months ago and Winstons was about 10 months ago, the team comp was Winston,Dva,Tracer,Genji,Lucio and Zen. Dive became popular around June/July of 2017 so how did months after Mercy's buff did she become broken and OP as people said. I don't understand why there wasn't an outcry during February and the month after but it all began around September so my question is why did the Mercy nerf outrage begin there when she never got a buff since the date i stated?

Please do not close my thread and tell me to go post on the megathread because everyone knows that we're getting sent there to post for no reason because every suggestion everyone posted was ignored and we never got a "That's a great idea" or a "That won't work because..."


Uh she received a buff when they reworked her abilities and ult, that is when she got the massive buff and made her completely broken.


That's not what i'm talking about, i'm saying why Huge Rez was an issue 10 months after her invuln buff, why was there an outrage in the last months of 2017 when her last buff with huge Rez was in Feb. My question was answered earlier so thanks.
to be fair. A lot of mercys during 1.0 would let there team die so the could get a better ult a main healer not healing is not great game play. To me it's the same as a dps waving at the other team. Not that I'm saying this new mercy is any better (quite frankly she's worse in terms of game play and the communities opinion of her). But I can understand where the hate to mercy 1.0 comes from
01/13/2018 05:31 PMPosted by Starlight
The last buff she got when she had mass rez was in February 28th, 2017 which was the invuln she got when she was rezzing. The buff was 11 months ago and Winstons was about 10 months ago, the team comp was Winston,Dva,Tracer,Genji,Lucio and Zen. Dive became popular around June/July of 2017 so how did months after Mercy's buff did she become broken and OP as people said. I don't understand why there wasn't an outcry during February and the month after but it all began around September so my question is why did the Mercy nerf outrage begin there when she never got a buff since the date i stated?

Please do not close my thread and tell me to go post on the megathread because everyone knows that we're getting sent there to post for no reason because every suggestion everyone posted was ignored and we never got a "That's a great idea" or a "That won't work because..."

thats implying mercy 1.0 was op to begin with. She didnt even have mid fight capability, her value was just her ult and because of that she had be absent of figths everytime contributing to that
01/13/2018 06:02 PMPosted by EMc73
There wasn't a big outrage prior to the rework.

It was just a gameplay element blizzard didn't like. Compare it to the more successful Lucio rework. Did people hate Lucio? No. Did they make him more engaging to play? Yes.

That's really all there is to it. They were trying to improve Mercy. Just happens that this time they failed catastrophically.


not sure if i'd call lucio's successful either, I actually played him a bit even though I preferred the others, after his rework, I pretty much never play him anymore.
01/13/2018 08:21 PMPosted by Edgelord
See I think what people were mad about is that Mercy basically negated good team work and ult comboing with one press of a button, which lets be honest is not very fair and you can say "oh just target the Mercy all day long" but at the end of the day if you are in a big team fight honestly the last thing you are worried about is where the Mercy is, like if there is a Reaper tearing your tanks a new one or a Pharah using her ult you are worried more about keeping them alive over worrying about what the Mercy is doing...I mean its different now, every teamfight just starts with wheres the Mercy, kill the Mercy but my point is Mercy negated good teamwork to easily and too often.


Ah good old forums, you can always count on the salty Mercy mains downvoting posts about how mass res was dumb but hey why should they care they got to ruin everyone else's fun...
The Mercy rework is an interesting spectacle because it shows characters might need fixes even though they aren't inherently broken.

The reason why there wasn't much outrage over original Mercy was because her issues weren't very apparent. She had a problem with how SR was adjusted based on resses, she had a core contradiction in her kit with how her res often forced Mercys to hide and disengage from battles rather than participate, and she was extremely passive as a support as well.

Why we got the change was to address these problems. Blizzard adjusted her kit so that it was more engaged from battle to battle. Mercy could no longer just heal from behind her team until she had ult, and then hide out in spawn while the enemy team spends three ults, just to have them reversed with one. Her kit made for very unfun experiences for everyone, including the Mercy herself usually, on top of the fact that her kit required significantly less skill to get power out of compared to other supports.

That last point, it's important to know that Blizzard has had a change of heart when it comes to the roles of supports. Basically, supports initially were made like most MMO supports -- weak, fairly defenseless heroes that needed protection in order to provide their irreplacable utility. This made supports very passive and too easy to use, while also making them feel too weak once they were hunted down without defenses. You can see this with Zen, Lucio, and Symmetra. All of them began with passive kits and were fairly weak by themselves, but were changed so that they had to be more active in the fight, and had the resources to do that. (Zen can no longer discord an enemy infinitely, his attacks became more accurate, and he got a health boost. Lucio was reworked so that his auras are tighter but he's more mobile and offensive. Sym had an extremely passive and weak ability turned into an active shield she could throw out... I guess, but you get what I mean.)

So that's why Mercy was also on the block, and why she needed a big look at. After all, the whole appeal to Mercy and one of her core strengths is that she's easy to use, which is fine enough. Low-skill supports should exist, I think, just like there are non-support heroes with low-skill requirements. So they made res a regular ability and turned her ult into something that gave the Mercy more freedom to be involved.

In addition, the new res system allows room for other heroes to excel. One of the problems Overwatch faced is that there were many "cheap" deaths, stuff that just kills you instantly as punishment for having done arguably little wrong. By making res an ability, these one-shot type kills can still exist (granted, many are still fairly leashed to other limitations now than before) and truly be countered, making for more involved games where you can't just win every push by getting a single headshot or Roadhog hook.

Lots of reasons why this rework has happened, and none of them are really because the character was imbalanced at first.

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