The community don't want heroes to be TOO niche

General Discussion
you said that this was our game and you were only the guardians.

do you think we want a game where we get banned for playing our favorite heroes?

no, I don't think so.

here's an example of a pour soul getting banned for playing torb and symetra

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20760728270?page=1

this type of behavior is unacceptable, both by the report system and the game master involved.

we need you (the developers) to at least try to not let these type of situations to occur .

don't tell me that is impossible to make all the heroes 100% viables at the time... I agree that getting that is beyond of what is possible for a team of human developers....

but I'm not asking for that...

I just want things to be a bit more even...

how can you (the developers) say honestly that the game is "fine" when we have heroes like tracer and D.va that get picked 99% of the time while people get banned for playing torb or symetra?

you have to admit that buffing a hero that counter the Dive play style of other heroes like tracer and genji is something good for the game.

we want diversity and freedom to play the game.

you have proveen is possible, just look at junkrat.
before the second mine buff I always got yelled at for picking him at the start of the match. now you have the forum filled of people complaining because can't dodge the bombs, or die because the were used to dive him, now that's not a valid option.

side note junkrat is a hero with 2 close range passives (no self damage and drop bombs when killed) and people complain that they die when they go for him in a alley...

any way... the answer is simple:
just buff the heroes which the community perceives to be the weakest.

just for getting you starting some buff for trob could be

-smaller head crit-box
-infinite ammo during ultimate
-same rate of fire for both the secondary and primary fire (the faster one)

and for mei:
-primary fire and ultimate prevent heroes affected by them to use their movement abilities (like zarya's) ultimate
-secondary fire minimal damage increased

that should get you started.

please reconsider your design philosophy.

remember when you wanted to have no hero limits in competitive play?
this is other situation like that, we want all heroes to be competitive, the least you can do is try it.
<3
01/28/2018 03:15 PMPosted by Froilen
here's an example of a pour soul getting banned for playing torb and symetra

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20760728270?page=1


So did you read more of the thread? Because:

Issue ID: #60751705

A Game Master resolved your ticket, and left the following response:

Hi there <KaJaX>, thanks for your ticket and chatting with me today.

As Discussed - I have looked into your issue and I have been able to Overturn the suspension on your account and it is now playable again


Okay, so Torbs get banned, but when looked into they get unbanned if the ban was unfair. Sounds like the system is working, even if it's not at a more convenient level than it could be.
01/28/2018 03:15 PMPosted by Froilen
here's an example of a pour soul getting banned for playing torb and symetra

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20760728270?page=1


So did you read more of the thread? Because:

Issue ID: #60751705

A Game Master resolved your ticket, and left the following response:

Hi there <KaJaX>, thanks for your ticket and chatting with me today.

As Discussed - I have looked into your issue and I have been able to Overturn the suspension on your account and it is now playable again


Okay, so Torbs get banned, but when looked into they get unbanned if the ban was unfair. Sounds like the system is working, even if it's not at a more convenient level than it could be.


he still gets the -50sr for being banned in the middle of the match... and the core of the problem is the balance of the hero, not necessarily the report system, but it should get improved
bumping this
01/28/2018 03:43 PMPosted by Froilen
he still gets the -50sr for being banned in the middle of the match...

This is a much larger issue than with non-meta heroes alone.

NO ONE should ever be banned in the MIDDLE of a match. The -50 SR is unfair for them, and the 5v6 thereafter is unfair for his or her team.
updated title
Your buffs for mei would make her incredibly busted. There's no reason for that. There are better ways to buff someone without making them undeniably broken
I think you fail to realize no matter if a character is niche or not, there’s is probably a hard counter to that character making them niche.
01/28/2018 05:21 PMPosted by Nightfallen
I think you fail to realize no matter if a character is niche or not, there’s is probably a hard counter to that character making them niche.


but they have to be <1% niche ?
01/28/2018 05:21 PMPosted by Nightfallen
I think you fail to realize no matter if a character is niche or not, there’s is probably a hard counter to that character making them niche.


Oh hey someone said the thing. There's a fine line to walk with incredibly specialized characters. On one hand, you want them to still be able to do their job well. On the other hand, you want them to have a defined answer so they don't feel like you can't do anything.

When the character isn't able to do their job well because of things that aren't their defined counter are equally as good at shutting them down, you have to look at how to make them stronger against things they already should be strong at.

Things to start with should be making Torbs turret be made entirely of armor (or a percentage of its HP being armor anyway). Reduce his head crit box a bit and see how that makes things. His turret still suffers from losing to burst damage like Pharah and Junkrat, while making it so someone like tracer has a much harder time against it.

For Mei, you're making it so that she counters her counter, since mobility is the solution to dealing with Mei. For her I don't think we need a whole lot, she's just out of meta at the moment since we have been in mobility meta for a year and counting. But if you were to change some of her things, it should start with no damage fall off on her right click, and her abilities produce a small AoE around them that slow opponents as well, giving her more access to CC that helps her shut down immobile comps (which is where she excels).
01/28/2018 05:31 PMPosted by Alfonzo
For Mei, you're making it so that she counters her counter, since mobility is the solution to dealing with Mei.


actually mei counter is middle to long range damage.

she has slow fire rate for her secondary fire and short range for her primary fire, not to mention the damage fall off.

when I think of Ice I think about countering mobility heroes.

ice makes you slow, you are good at moving fast so she should counter mobility heroes...

heroes with no mobility have other ways to deal with mei, like zarya's bubbles or phara long range .

so yeah I still think that my suggestion for mei are in the right direction for making her viable and even competitive
01/28/2018 03:15 PMPosted by Froilen
primary fire and ultimate prevent heroes affected by them to use their movement abilities (like zarya's) ultimate


This is the kind of change they're afraid to make. Quite frankly I am too...it's TOO powerful. That means nobody will be able to escape Mei.

Make changes WITHIN REASON. Your ideas for Torbjorn work in that regard for the most part.

01/28/2018 03:15 PMPosted by Froilen
-same rate of fire for both the secondary and primary fire (the faster one)

Except this part. The secondary fire does too much DPS to just ramp up its fire rate.
it's ok, we can tone them down if they get out of hand...

remember what jeff said, if they nerf mercy too hard they will bring her back up. same for these type of buff.

I'm just suggesting a place to start testing things on the PTR
01/28/2018 05:45 PMPosted by Froilen
actually mei counter is middle to long range damage.

See I'd agree with you if she didn't have her alternate fire, which gives her a solid enough option against ranged opponents like Pharah, McCree, and Soldier. Its not to say she will win every fight at range, because she's not meant too, but she has more options than you give her credit for.

On to your second topic, yes other less mobile characters have ways of dealing with her freeze, but usually it doesn't help them with the fight. Reaper uses wraith walk but it doesn't really get him out of Mei's effective range, just gives him a fight reset on being able to be frozen. Same for Zarya. These abilities usually don't win them the fight or even get them out of danger like Swift Strike or a Blink could. I feel the need to mention Pharah has a mobility option in the form of her Jet Boost (or whatever its called) that will launch her out of a Mei's range.

The reason why I say she's a counter to less mobile teams is how exceptionally good she is against Reinhardt based (see: deathball) team comps. One Ice Wall well timed Ice Wall is all it takes to win a team fight. Separate a Rein and one other unlucky soul from the rest of their team and watch as your team has a field day.
They do want that actually. Revert mercy is exactly ‘that’
01/28/2018 06:14 PMPosted by Hawai
They do want that actually. Revert mercy is exactly ‘that’


Niche is fine... I quite like Niche heroes and a lot of others do. We find them fun to play because their unique. Mercy was still a Generalist back in the day...She only looked niche because Ana was strong.

That ultimate allowed players to actually feel skillful though (in how fast they charged it, how they used it, when they used it.) it had many layers despite being fairly simple. It was easy to tell a good Mercy from a bad one. Now it's very dumbed down...It has impact but doesn't feel impactful. It's like driving to the end of a Rainbow only to find a pot of Silver. I mean...Silver is nice and useful and all... But I WANTED FREAKING GOLD!
01/28/2018 03:15 PMPosted by Froilen
here's an example of a pour soul getting banned for playing torb and symetra

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20760728270?page=1


So did you read more of the thread? Because:

Issue ID: #60751705

A Game Master resolved your ticket, and left the following response:

Hi there <KaJaX>, thanks for your ticket and chatting with me today.

As Discussed - I have looked into your issue and I have been able to Overturn the suspension on your account and it is now playable again


Okay, so Torbs get banned, but when looked into they get unbanned if the ban was unfair. Sounds like the system is working, even if it's not at a more convenient level than it could be.


That ban was overturned but if you read more of the thread he was banned again for the same thing and it wont be over turned.

Aksheron 11:54:32 No we cannot review more evidence, as you have consistently received plenty of reports and that doesn'thappen randomly

you 11:54:44It is not random, it is for my hero choice!

Aksheron 11:54:57If other players doesn't want you to always pick those 2 characters in competitive games, they are in their right to report you

Aksheron 11:55:07If you don't want to be reported, don't pick always those 2 characters

Aksheron 11:55:13Is really that simple

you 11:55:27Ok, then I understand. I should not only play symmetra or torbjorn or I will be banned

More details
https://www.reddit.com/user/Kajakoverwatch/comments/7tc78v/banned_for_playing_symm_torb_blizzard_upholds_ban/
bump for a blue to read this
Uh... looks like this part of the community wants niche heroes.

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