OWL xQc, Custa, Jake etc. all say Mercy Nerfs are Too Much

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Everything about this entire debate is "subjective", including the opinions of pro players who hate Mercy, hate Resurrect, and want either or both out of the game.

I have no hate for people who like Mercy 2.0 or who will still enjoy her after this rework. All I know is that I don't have nearly as much fun playing her myself and won't use her unless I absolutely have to.
01/16/2018 05:54 AMPosted by Succubus
Everything about this entire debate is "subjective", including the opinions of pro players who hate Mercy, hate Resurrect, and want either or both out of the game.

I have no hate for people who like Mercy 2.0 or who will still enjoy her after this rework. All I know is that I don't have nearly as much fun playing her myself and won't use her unless I absolutely have to.


Best suggestion that anyone ever proposed in my opinion was to make rez work like Zilean ultimate from LoL

5 Second buff on a friendly, if friendly takes fatal damage, he get's revived with few seconds delay.

This buff can give some damage reduction or health regen, but it would prevent rez from state of death, while still being a rez.
Mercy being ridiculously OP was the only thing that made the rework fun for me. Aside from that, there was literally nothing fun about it, as I felt I had lost my impact on the games I played.
01/16/2018 05:59 AMPosted by OnFrame
01/16/2018 05:54 AMPosted by Succubus
Everything about this entire debate is "subjective", including the opinions of pro players who hate Mercy, hate Resurrect, and want either or both out of the game.

I have no hate for people who like Mercy 2.0 or who will still enjoy her after this rework. All I know is that I don't have nearly as much fun playing her myself and won't use her unless I absolutely have to.


Best suggestion that anyone ever proposed in my opinion was to make rez work like Zilean ultimate from LoL

5 Second buff on a friendly, if friendly takes fatal damage, he get's revived with few seconds delay.

This buff can give some damage reduction or health regen, but it would prevent rez from state of death, while still being a rez.


Depending on how it's used, that might be even MORE OP.

Imagine Tracer basically making a suicide run at the enemy team. She sticks a target and then tries to burst down another before getting caught in the explosion. Then, even if she dies, she comes right back and continues shooting them.

Same with Junkrat. Graviton a team and have Junkrat literally walk into the middle of them spamming grenades and explosives. Even if they kill him, his passive takes care of the rest. Then he revives and gets to do it again.

The entire balance to Rez was/is that Mercy had to actually go into whatever hell killed her teammates to pull it off. That was even true with Mercy 1.0, because that's the entire reason she was considered garbage before she got invincibility.
This is what happens when people realized when supports are getting nerfed (overall the only one did not have healing potential untouched is zen), there life will become more miserable.
01/16/2018 06:03 AMPosted by Halofreak90
Mercy being ridiculously OP was the only thing that made the rework fun for me. Aside from that, there was literally nothing fun about it, as I felt I had lost my impact on the games I played.


I feel dirty for abusing OP characters, it was an easy way to gain SR, but no thanks.
I want Mercy to require same effort as Anna to achieve same impact, in no case hero should promote low effort plays for high rewards.

Same as with Winston I don't demand for higher damage, because that's not the point.
01/16/2018 06:08 AMPosted by Succubus
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Best suggestion that anyone ever proposed in my opinion was to make rez work like Zilean ultimate from LoL

5 Second buff on a friendly, if friendly takes fatal damage, he get's revived with few seconds delay.

This buff can give some damage reduction or health regen, but it would prevent rez from state of death, while still being a rez.


Depending on how it's used, that might be even MORE OP.

Imagine Tracer basically making a suicide run at the enemy team. She sticks a target and then tries to burst down another before getting caught in the explosion. Then, even if she dies, she comes right back and continues shooting them.

Same with Junkrat. Graviton a team and have Junkrat literally walk into the middle of them spamming grenades and explosives. Even if they kill him, his passive takes care of the rest. Then he revives and gets to do it again.

The entire balance to Rez was/is that Mercy had to actually go into whatever hell killed her teammates to pull it off. That was even true with Mercy 1.0, because that's the entire reason she was considered garbage before she got invincibility.


Suggested this idea in other thread, my whole idea was like this:

It could be a 5sec buff which heals over time and decreases damage, and if used during Valkyrie, resses a person if he takes lethal damage, rez takes 2seconds to complete after lethal damage is taken(some time for enemies to react.)

EDIT: It keeps mercy's identity as she still would have a rez technically, and also would allow for some awesome combos with other ultimates like Genji's, Reapers etc. basically you engage teamfight and allow one of the guys to go full berserker mode, without fear of death for 5seconds.
I want Mercy to require same effort as Anna to achieve same impact.
You do realize that's rather unrealistic, given the huge differences between the two characters?

01/16/2018 06:09 AMPosted by OnFrame
in no case hero should promote low effort plays for high rewards
So you want Junkrat changed as well, then? Since he requires even less effort to be effective than Mercy.
01/16/2018 06:26 AMPosted by Halofreak90
I want Mercy to require same effort as Anna to achieve same impact.
You do realize that's rather unrealistic, given the huge differences between the two characters?

01/16/2018 06:09 AMPosted by OnFrame
in no case hero should promote low effort plays for high rewards
So you want Junkrat changed as well, then? Since he requires even less effort to be effective than Mercy.


It can be things besides mechanical aim that requires effort. Then people say Mercy requires a lot of planning and awareness I cringe a bit, it's the truth, but every god damn hero requires that also. It all comes down to Blizzard, do they want to keep her as one star difficulty hero, or expand her in the future with new mechanics.

For Junkrat yeh, he definitely needs adjusting, because then I pick him and I play him very rarely, just spaming enemy team randomly is enough to make kills and damage, not to mention knock backs, especially in lower ranks where people don't know how to deal with him properly.
...

Depending on how it's used, that might be even MORE OP.

Imagine Tracer basically making a suicide run at the enemy team. She sticks a target and then tries to burst down another before getting caught in the explosion. Then, even if she dies, she comes right back and continues shooting them.

Same with Junkrat. Graviton a team and have Junkrat literally walk into the middle of them spamming grenades and explosives. Even if they kill him, his passive takes care of the rest. Then he revives and gets to do it again.

The entire balance to Rez was/is that Mercy had to actually go into whatever hell killed her teammates to pull it off. That was even true with Mercy 1.0, because that's the entire reason she was considered garbage before she got invincibility.


Suggested this idea in other thread, my whole idea was like this:

It could be a 5sec buff which heals over time and decreases damage, and if used during Valkyrie, resses a person if he takes lethal damage, rez takes 2seconds to complete after lethal damage is taken(some time for enemies to react.)

EDIT: It keeps mercy's identity as she still would have a rez technically, and also would allow for some awesome combos with other ultimates like Genji's, Reapers etc. basically you engage teamfight and allow one of the guys to go full berserker mode, without fear of death for 5seconds.


That doesn’t address any of the issues I stated.

At casual glance, your suggestion would give Mercy INSANE synergy with Zarya (imagine a character who’s not only bubbled, but will come back even if you DO kill them).

It would also be absurdly strong with any character that has high risk/reward play. Think Pharmercy is bad NOW? Imagine Pharah with a risk-free Ult. Pharah could rain justice from anywhere, do massive burst damage, then come back to life even if she does die. And Dva would basically be unkillable. She gets demeched, dies, and immediately comes back with another mech in stock.
01/16/2018 07:35 AMPosted by Succubus
...

Suggested this idea in other thread, my whole idea was like this:

...


That doesn’t address any of the issues I stated.

At casual glance, your suggestion would give Mercy INSANE synergy with Zarya (imagine a character who’s not only bubbled, but will come back even if you DO kill them).

It would also be absurdly strong with any character that has high risk/reward play. Think Pharmercy is bad NOW? Imagine Pharah with a risk-free Ult. Pharah could rain justice from anywhere, do massive burst damage, then come back to life even if she does die. And Dva would basically be unkillable. She gets demeched, dies, and immediately comes back with another mech in stock.


Receiving fatal damage interrupts everything you do and prevents actions for few seconds in which time you cant be damaged.
...

That doesn’t address any of the issues I stated.

At casual glance, your suggestion would give Mercy INSANE synergy with Zarya (imagine a character who’s not only bubbled, but will come back even if you DO kill them).

It would also be absurdly strong with any character that has high risk/reward play. Think Pharmercy is bad NOW? Imagine Pharah with a risk-free Ult. Pharah could rain justice from anywhere, do massive burst damage, then come back to life even if she does die. And Dva would basically be unkillable. She gets demeched, dies, and immediately comes back with another mech in stock.


Receiving fatal damage interrupts everything you do and prevents actions for few seconds in which time you cant be damaged.


Still not the point.

Even if the delay makes so that a character essentially "dies" and comes back minus death effects like Junk passive, it still makes "berserker" gameplay (as you put it) way too powerful. Killing Reaper mid-surprise ult wouldn't change the fact that he just bursted down one or more of your team and then came right "back to life" to finish the job.

But even then, "the character died but didn't really die and now has more health" sounds like a worse version of Sound Barrier/Transcendence.

And call me crazy, but I liked Mercy better when she was unique.
01/16/2018 05:50 AMPosted by OnFrame
so we can tweak it instead of burning whole concept.
Just like they burned the hero and playstyle of 1.0 that me and a !@#$ ton of other people felt in love with? Hm.
01/16/2018 08:51 AMPosted by HeroH
01/16/2018 05:50 AMPosted by OnFrame
so we can tweak it instead of burning whole concept.
Just like they burned the hero and playstyle of 1.0 that me and a !@#$ ton of other people felt in love with? Hm.


how about !@#$ tone of people who hated it? and loves this one?
01/16/2018 08:59 AMPosted by OnFrame
01/16/2018 08:51 AMPosted by HeroH
...Just like they burned the hero and playstyle of 1.0 that me and a !@#$ ton of other people felt in love with? Hm.


how about !@#$ tone of people who hated it? and loves this one?


Well, we came first. And we played Mercy 1.0 longer than they've (thus far) played Mercy 2.0.

Either way someone's going to be screwed, so I side with the people who stuck it out with an F-Tier character for 5 Seasons.
01/16/2018 09:02 AMPosted by Succubus
01/16/2018 08:59 AMPosted by OnFrame
...

how about !@#$ tone of people who hated it? and loves this one?


Well, we came first. And we played Mercy 1.0 longer than they've (thus far) played Mercy 2.0.

Either way someone's going to be screwed, so I side with the people who stuck it out with an F-Tier character for 5 Seasons.


I played mercy 1.0 I was also a mercy main
With all the experience I have since overwatch's day #1, I would say ress as a cooldown ability it's a mistake. It breaks the gameplay or what it should be. Once you lose a member of your team on a team fight, communication and repositioning should come along in order to fight back strong. But since the cooldown ress, that happens in rare situations in which mercy itself it's picked off or two of the enemy team members are picked off and one of them gets ressed. Also, in a lot of cases, it makes the team not care much about a dying team member, because they know they can be ressed back up at any time. In this case, it destroys the gameplay because your team should be doing their best to keep you alive, at all circumstances, and that it's the game essence.

My point is: when a hero dies, it should not be able to come back instantly. Getting picked off should be punished by taking time to come back to the fight depending on the spawn distance, what are the maps designed for. In my opinion, the only ability capable of doing that would be an ultimate ability (but not the whole team, please). I guess Valkyrie with 1 ress would do the job. If not, increasing the healing power (while valkyring) would be a good idea, but not the number of resses.

To be honest, even with those changes I wouldn't feel like playing mercy anymore. She has been a "must" pick since season 1 (on ranked), which in therms of support gameplay, it makes the game rather boring than fun to play.
Pretty much what I got out of those videos was that if they just remove res as an ability she would be much easier to balance but because they refuse to they have to nerf her other abilities into the ground to just to level it out with other supports.
01/16/2018 11:26 AMPosted by Hart
Pretty much what I got out of those videos was that if they just remove res as an ability she would be much easier to balance but because they refuse to they have to nerf her other abilities into the ground to just to level it out with other supports.


I suspect they refuse to take it away largely because majority of Mercy player consider it "part of her identity" while I would consider that resurrection is not port of her identity, saving people is, she can be all mobile healer and be the same character without rez...
The fact that at least some pros react like this feels good. I'm still very bitter about how many of the pros and others who are around OWL had been advocating for mercy's death, going even beyond merely balancing her. I felt really alienated from them because of how blatantly these radical nerfs seemed to be motivated by OWL. But this helps a bit.

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