[Feedback Thread] Mercy Updates - Jan 30, 2018

General Discussion
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Just give her the old ult back and make Valkyrie an E ability (obviously a weaker version)

The reason why Mercy players hide is because Mercy was most likely never gonna survive the teamfight (especially with your favorite Genji killing everyone for free), she never had independent tools in her kit that's why people have been asking for an E ability from the start of the game.
People keep talking about how a five man rez was OP, but somehow a quintuple elimination with self-destruct or the damn rip tyre or deadeye - which I saw happen a lot oftener than a five man rez - somehow ISN'T op? why is the elimination-heavy DPS playstyle the only one that is legitimate?
02/02/2018 05:23 PMPosted by Banshee
Just give her the old ult back and make Valkyrie an E ability (obviously a weaker version)

The reason why Mercy players hide is because Mercy was most likely never gonna survive the teamfight (especially with your favorite Genji killing everyone for free), she never had independent tools in her kit that's why people have been asking for an E ability from the start of the game.
Make a 6 second valk E with no beam split.
02/02/2018 05:26 PMPosted by Bessmertny
People keep talking about how a five man rez was OP, but somehow a quintuple elimination with self-destruct or the damn rip tyre or deadeye - which I saw happen a lot oftener than a five man rez - somehow ISN'T op? why is the elimination-heavy DPS playstyle the only one that is legitimate?


Because the DPS outnumber the support. Support always gets heavy nerfs. I'm not sure why Blizzard continues down this path, they do it in all of their games. They form the holy trinity, tank, healer, dps, and then proceed to hamstring one of those heavily.

I mean the 2 additions to the healing section have been Ana, who can deal with targets efficiency in her own right (seen some amazing Ana's) and Moira who can now both compete heavily in top heals, and damage... Lucio long ago was more heals, and he's definatly a great support but he deals more damage than he ever has.. Zenytta was changed to be less supporty w/ his orb and instead deal more damage himself.. D.Va was nerffed with a defense matrix to be less of a tank and got rockets to be more dps.....

I don't know, I don't want to sound biased but it seems like a lot of the changes all lean towards giving characters a DPS capacility which is going to turn the game into an increasingly more fast paced style game with less emphasis on teamplay when you knock down two of the three pillars of the trinity and are just left with DPS.
Blizzard if you are really reading this I hope you take to heart how Mercy players are feeling vs. the mediocre DPS community. I think it speaks to a rift that was created from the monster of a mercy that came out of the original rework.....
Fixed, since they were the only ones complaining.
im really disappointed in blizzard for putting that mercy nerf on the live servers.

thats literally the worst way to balance mercy - gut her gameplay so shes not being played because her gameplay just plain sucks.

what about nerfing mercy in a way that leaves her fun to play? dont tell me you cant, because you totally can, you just took the easy way.

bastions rework made him worse and mercy is abysmal. what are you doing?

with that mercy nerf you took the very last bit of fun out of overwatch for me.

we got super annoying hanzos and junkrats and pharmercys and all you come around with is totally wrecking mercys gameplay with god awful decisions.

why do you even put changes on the PBE when these go through 1:1? ppl have been testing mercy and found her horrible, you got 100 pages of mercy feedback and still roll out these changes?

this is madness.
All I ask currently is that you return the noise at the end of Valk that signals it is winding down and about to finish.

It's probably the thing most annoying me currently.

Thanks in advance, design team.
02/02/2018 05:37 PMPosted by Mercy
All I ask currently is that you return the noise at the end of Valk that signals it is winding down and about to finish.

It's probably the thing most annoying me currently.

Thanks in advance, design team.
Isn't that like putting gum on a giant crack?
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20761806275?page=1#post-2

My thoughts in a forum post. TL;DR at bottom if you don’t want to read the full thing. Read the whole thing before judging?
02/02/2018 05:33 AMPosted by AkiraNasuki
02/01/2018 07:59 PMPosted by Brawl
...
In general or only for Mercy? Because the core idea of mine was to make the Ult more useful in the mid fight and a as security measure for Mercy. Only instant heal seem a bit to less for me.

The only problem i can really see with it would be 800HP Roadhog and 400 HP normal heroes... or did I forget something?


Its basically giving Mercy too many extra's

Whilst yes the idea of giving more HP is great but it becomes too op when stacked with Torbjorn and Symmetra...

A Torb Sym combo can provide the team with 150 additional health if executed successfully... if we gave the HP extender effect to Mercy as well she could boost that total to 200 HP.

Also considering the fact that Mercy literally just gains ultimate by healing... the more she heals the quicker she gains... chances are before the fight is over she will just engage Valkyrie... top everyone up res who ever needs reviving and boom all standing players (besides the resurrected) will have 50 extra HP.

For DPS and Tanks this will be irritating... I mean Lucio already does this with Sound Barrier and it is annoying enough that he saves his teammates who are on their last sliver of HP with Sound Barrier... Mercy its just giving her too much usage again.

Also for Mercy herself... if Torb and Sym are there... she gains 225 additional HP... that is 425 HP on a healer and if she pocketed by the sub healer... she practically immortal and given the circumstances people don't know how to dismantle cancer comps...

We could be talking teams with Reinhardt with 700 HP, D.Va with 800 HP, Mercy with 425 HP, Symmetra with 400 HP and Torbjorn with 400 HP then the 5th player can be anything... DPS, Tank or sub healer... Moira maybe... who would have 400 HP, can heal as good as Mercy can keep her alive and can kill ferociously good and regens upon dealing damage... Lucio with speed boost, damage dealing and sound barrier to add in that extra trolling... Bastion... who could have 500 HP...

You get the gist... if the community was clever enough to adopt a meta like that for mainstream defense it will be Total Mayhem composition on that side with a bunch of normies going in and having a ridiculously hard time dismantling it.

Symmetra has to be the first to die... you have to avoid feeding her because her charge value is at 1000, the 2nd lowest in the game with D.Va having a value of 300 for call Mech. Then it has to be destroying Torbjorn and his turret or Mercy before she gains any significant large amounts of healing.

Speed and aggressive and precise damage dealing will have to be played with the Dive Comp doing their utmost best not to die... if the first engagement fails then its up to the 2nd engagement... if that fails then game over... enemy team will have most likely 2 or 3 ults ready, everything is set up... you won't get another chance unless the team is wise on their ult stacking, choose wisely on what heroes can counter this comp (baring in mind the enemy team can just equally swap over to maintain their defense) like Orisa for Reinhardt... Soldier:76 instead of a sub healer or 2nd tank and then its down to the last minute and final push to effectively try and dismantle the composition.

Fail to get Mercy, fail to dismantle... and cancer comp wins defense.


Yeah, this is exactly the problem i saw with it. The possibility of way too much health with Sym and Torb. But I have to admit that this was a bit the goal of the entire thing with the BHP system. To make Sym and Torb a bit more valuable.

I know that many players start choking when they hear Symmetra and valuable in the same sentence. But i think Sym really could use a bit more play time. Same as Sombra which could destroy shields, disable gun turrets and HP shields. The extra dmg from Nano Boost could become very important too (although Ana still would have problems wiht barriers). It also would make Dive very weak and teamplay would become very important again, same as Ult economy.

While i do understand that 200 added HP are to much, we could say that you can't get more than 150 on top of your base HP. That would give HP management a whole new meaning. Or that BHP only last for 10s (like the self heal for revived allies). At the end you also have to keep in mind that if you use the Res only for the BHP you won't have the Res it self.
But like i said. It's not perfect yet. I will rethink it.

02/02/2018 05:33 AMPosted by AkiraNasuki
Also considering the fact that Mercy literally just gains ultimate by healing... the more she heals the quicker she gains... chances are before the fight is over she will just engage Valkyrie... top everyone up res who ever needs reviving and boom all standing players (besides the resurrected) will have 50 extra HP.


NO... sorry.
Valkyrie does not exist in that scenario. Chain heal and dmg buff as well are not there. Only single target.

Chain heal killed a game for me befor. I don't want to see that in OW as well.
02/02/2018 05:34 PMPosted by Duskstalker

why do you even put changes on the PBE when these go through 1:1? ppl have been testing mercy and found her horrible, you got 100 pages of mercy feedback and still roll out these changes?

this is madness.


Madness?

THIS IS SPARTA...erm...BLIZZARD!!!
02/02/2018 04:29 PMPosted by xsymbiotex
Really hope you guys rework mercy again. She isn't fun to play anymore and in my opinion just seems useless. If that means taking Rez out entirely then so be it, just something to make her fun again and more useful again.


At this point, let them take out rez. They seem to be heading down that path anyway but the process is drawn- out. I am too scared to use rez anyway. It breaks my heart to keep grieving over Mercy with each nerf.

I had a guy call me a "bit*h" yesterday in QP for not rezzing him. His corpse was swarmed with 3 enemies. As if I woulda survived if i had tried to rez him.

Blizz talks about reducing/eliminating toxicity yet with this sledgehammer of a nerf, they seemed to have opened the floodgates of toxicity towards Mercy players

And i was only in QP.. i dread what kinda toxicity I'll get if i were to play comp :|
02/02/2018 04:00 PMPosted by DrunkenPwNeR
After playing the newly nerfed Mercy I have to say they overdid it. And not by a little. Her ult is pathetically weak right now, probably the weakest in the game. Right now it just makes you a flying target that does not need to reload.

I have mentioned in an earlier post that reemphasises this statement. I asked previously how the Valkyrie compares to the other support ultimates, and DrunkenPwNeR is right: Valkyrie is actually the weakest support ultimate in the game. The reason being is its supposed contribution to the team fight, whereas Mercy's healing/power boost rates don't change at all, regardless of the chain healing/boost. Zenyatta, Lucio and Moira have much better AoE ults compared to Mercy, and even Lucio's Amp-It-Up healing is better than Valkyrie. The only thing Valk has is the flight and increased mobility which only helps the Mercy and doesn't contribute more to the team.

The instant double rez was what gave value to the Valkyrie, and the main reason for the nerf. It made matches a 8v6, and consequently made Mercy a must-pick. We are also talking about bringing back characters to a full 200-600 health. That's immense value but also what made Mercy OP.

This is why I'm asking for an increase buff to her healing/power boost and at a rate that should be an effective counter to the enemy team. I recommend a rate of 100 health per second (remember that Mercy also has chain healing/boost), and +40% damage boost. I'm not sure about Mercy's self-regeneration since she has flight, but if I were to recommend an increase it would be 30 or 40 health per second.

Another concern I have is the inability to cancel rez whihc has been the case since the introduction of Mercy 2.0. Trying to pull off a rez has been made harder now with Valkyrie because of the cast time. You can argue that the valkyrie can provide that extra mobility to pull it off, but support ultimates are too important to a team fight, and to pull off a rez is a highly risky move. Even outside of Valkyrie, the rez is still risky to pull off and Mercy should have the chance to escape a bad or troubling situation. This why I'm asking for a way to cancel rez.

I do believe with these recommendations that Mercy will be more fun to play and be a valuable member to teams.
What can I say. It feels like you guys are pushing me as a mercy player into a box slapping my fingers at the same time saying "bad mercy bad mercy" this is how you should play.

Personally I only think she got one play style now and that is healing and aoe heal with strategy resses.
Before at least I had the option to ult and aoe damage boost the team in teamfights not being afraid if one died because I had instant ress on them.

I guess I have the option to aoe damage boost now as well at a higher risk of team wipe and more likely to get flamed if i do so instead of aoe healing.

I don't know what you guys are trying to turn mercy into but currently she is fairly weak in my opinion unless you just play as a walking health pack. But if that is the point of her then I don't know why I should not play moira or ana instead?

Edit: I would also like to add that I think ressing during my valkyrie is more dangerous then without valkyrie now as I am a bigger target and it leaves the aoe healing off for the duration of the ress. Thats why I avoid ressing with valk now.
02/02/2018 06:13 PMPosted by bambi
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20761806275?page=1#post-2

My thoughts in a forum post. TL;DR at bottom if you don’t want to read the full thing. Read the whole thing before judging?


I did read the whole thing and I do agree with you that Blizzard has basically declared open season on anyone who plays Mercy. The perception is that the devs don't like Mercy and they don't like people who play Mercy so the community is allowed to trash Mercy players without repercussion. This was evidenced by the OWL in their parody trash Mercy video that they did.

I did however disagree with you on two major points:

1. Mercy being able to resurrect a player is no more overpowered than insta-killing a player and I'm talking about full health 5-man kills (i.e. McCree, Junkrat, Tracer, D.Va, Hanzo, Genji, Reaper, Doomfist, and Bastion) if you think McCree's ult isn't overpowered then you are lying. 5-man resurrects with Mercy 1.0 happened way less than McCree killing 5 people in one ult. But according to your logic McCree's ult isn't overpowered, Mercy is the only problem child in this game.

2. Mercy has never been balanced. I believe that you are right in this regard but...Nobody in this game is balanced, it's impossible. When you have a FPS game where all of the characters have different abilities, different health values, ultimate abilities, and different win scenarios you can never have true balance. The only way to truly balance this game is to make it Call of Duty so if you want balance go play that. Because if you want Overwatch to be Call of Duty it would not be Overwatch and since it is Overwatch true balance will forever never exist in this game.
I’ve probably read 45 posts and out of that only s few have been actually helpful in ways of trading out the Mercy nerds for something else or providing feed back in the changes.

A majority of people have been complaining about the devs and their “crap nerfs” and their “inability to balance”.

They’ve been saying “you only listen to the dps players” and things alike.

This forum has turned into people complaining about the devs and about other people they don’t even know. Instead of offering solutions.

Like a solution of: what if instead of a Rez, mercy had a cleanse on a 10 second cool down for single target cleanse? Or her ultimate could do a 5 man cleanse? The ability could clear all debuffs and stuns (except zen orb). If it was a 5 man ability it would automatically target all alive teammates and cleanse them, then provide a short invulnerability, for maybe 2.5 seconds, and then it would be over.
And here we go again, same song and dance. "We think the rework is a success don't mind us while we nerf it into the ground, we're listening to your feed back while we shove you in a thread and ignore you, nerf remains as is." Papa Jeff moves on and the world for everyone but the people who PLAY Mercy keeps turning.

I might as well not even have an Ult at this point. Rezzing while in ult is suicide unless the fights already over or YOU'RE HIDING TO PULL IT OFF! And even if you do get it off it feels like utter crap to use. The benefits of valk are now entirely lack luster and do NOTHING to keep mercy engaged in fights. just pop valk and spend forever holding down LMB 20 miles away from the fight. Honestly, I'd rather NOT EVEN USE VALK because all it does is put this BIG RED FALMING TARGET on my back in exchange for what? Bouncing heal/damage beams? Unlimited ammo? yay /s! I mean I get Valk can be useful on a push with damage beams to mop up, but it is literally zero fun for the Mercy (or in my case me.) I've felt this whole time that I'm the one being punished for something other people did that Blizz just felt like they didn't like, but wasn't REALLY a problem balance wise, and now we have this monster of a Hero that was once Mercy and Blizz just says nothing to counter anything the Mercy players have said. We get a "We're totally hearing you! We just aren't going to bother addressing anything you say! We don't have to justify ourselves to the people who actually play the hero because they enjoyed her!" I'm well past constructive criticism because I've given quite a bit. But Blizz has shown me that what I give is not worth their time and it feels like total GARBAGE to PLAY AS MERCY.

(edit) Rage spelling and grammar problems.
These Mercy nerfs were great! They saved me a lot of money I would have spent on lootboxes and frustration from trying to play your mess of a game.

Thanks for the horrible balancing Blizz, now I can finally have fun playing something else!
I think Resurrection would be great if when she revived players they had a rez sickness (like in WoW) where they couldn't be affected by Rez until they died and were forced back to the Spawn or they waited 2-3minutes before they could be rez'd again.
02/02/2018 06:56 PMPosted by BlackGambit
02/02/2018 06:13 PMPosted by bambi
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20761806275?page=1

1. Mercy being able to resurrect a player is no more overpowered than insta-killing a player and I'm talking about full health 5-man kills (i.e. McCree, Junkrat, Tracer, D.Va, Hanzo, Genji, Reaper, Doomfist, and Bastion) if you think McCree's ult isn't overpowered then you are lying. 5-man resurrects with Mercy 1.0 happened way less than McCree killing 5 people in one ult. But according to your logic McCree's ult isn't overpowered, Mercy is the only problem child in this game.

[/quote]

This is the only part I can’t completely agree on you with.

Ultamites should not be considered to be completely balanced. They’re an extreme ability that shouldn’t be fun to play against cause they give a temporary sort of “ability buff” to the heroes. It also makes sense that the dps heroes have a dps ultimate. Which can be mostly countered by a support ultimate (i.e. dragon blade and visor with transcendence or high noon and tire with sound barrier [as a few examples])

But I also never said specifically mercy was the only one with problems, but with her rework, the point was to make resurrect not an ultimate and yet Valkyrie still made that the case. There’s definitely going to need to be adjustments as it feels like the least impactful support ultimate in the game, but we still have yet to know since we’re not even a week into the mercy changes.

And yes, resurrect was never always a 5 man Rez, but it still hurts that after a team fight when the enemy team is low on health and they worked their butts off to kill your team, a simple q press could erase all their hard work and dedication to their kills. It might be better if the 5 man Rez distance was decreased by 5 meters, you couldn’t Rez in spawn, and vuln wasn’t given when you rez; that’s the only way I can see 5 man rez coming back, and even then that’s iffy.

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