[Feedback Thread] Mercy Updates - Jan 30, 2018

General Discussion
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Rez should just be removed from the game. Buff valkrie to increase the healing/dps boost and she's exactly where she should be.

A low skill hero with uninterrupted healing and an on demand escape ability is already bad enough without giving her the ability to negate skillful play.

LIKE

QUOTE


Sorry but the "remove resurrection" thing has been discussed a lot. Even Blizz seems to have no intention to remove it, as it's Mercy's lore, core and the only thing that makes her unique and identifies her (this point seems to be hard for them to remember). What about removing Symmetra's turrets? Would that be fair or fun maybe? Yes, I know this sounds stupid, the same goes for the "remove resurrect" thing. Change it? Okay, why not? Move it to its legitimate place as an ultimate and almost everyone will be happy. But remove it? No, thanks, that's killing the character.
Even if they don't want to go back to Resurrect, I don't believe that Valkyrie is proper either. Sure, flying is nice, but it's not an Ultimate. It'd be like giving Pharah free flight during her Ult with faster damage output. Resurrect as an ability has its interesting moments, but it's more of a reminder of how nice her Ultimate used to feel. If they don't want to go back to Resurrect, they should at the very least give her a different Ultimate that feels like one at some point down the line. Nothing can replace the iconic "Heroes Never Die!", so having an ability that was used similar to Rez and had a nice impact, and fit that line, would just be nice.

It's not often that a game is literally changed to the point that you can't play the way you enjoy anymore. I can't "go back" to Rez and play by myself, even if I wanted. Not even in a custom game, or anything.
02/11/2018 12:39 PMPosted by SaidTheBear
getting a good laugh at all the downvotes from the mercy mains

res is bad for the game. it sucks to need to have mercy on your team.. and it sucks to play against it. i hate it and would rather see a moira (as annoying as she is) anyday. or hell, for that matter, an Ana which is awesome, and a zen.


As an E ability? No doubt that it has a lot of problems and that it encourages toxicity (that's one of them), it never had to be turned into this. As an ultimate? Sorry, but no one with real skill or game sense complained about her, and even now a lot of people consider her old rez her most balanced spot. If you hate it, sorry, but that is your problem. I hate all Genji's kit and Tracer too, but you won't see me puking my hate towards their players. That's not needed.
02/11/2018 12:39 PMPosted by SaidTheBear
getting a good laugh at all the downvotes from the mercy mains

res is bad for the game. it sucks to need to have mercy on your team.. and it sucks to play against it. i hate it and would rather see a moira (as annoying as she is) anyday. or hell, for that matter, an Ana which is awesome, and a zen.


he REASON you are getting downvoted is because REZ WAS HERS and could be used to negate her team getting ulted. You are just mad because you, and the other DPS, useing ALL OF YOUR ULTS AT ONCE and missed her because she is unnoticeable instead of doing the work of:
KILL THE HEALER FIRST THEN THE REST OF THE TEAM.
In so many games, before the rework, I would be solo ulted then someone else on the opposing team would ult the rest of my team. That way you were assured victory, but you being lazy and not making sure the healers were dead before you used your ult on the team was your own fault, not Mercy's. Now lets see....
You like Widowmaker and Junkrat. First one takes skill to be sure, could use a better ult but they haven't changed her one bit since release. Junkrat they have done some work with, how are those mines working for you?

Now lets take Junkrat, a very FUN character to play, I play him myself. Lets do to him what was done to Mercy, Nerf the snot out of him >:-3
First, take away that 2nd mine, too powerful in too many situations. Oh, and you cannot use it to move away from a fight anymore since we are reducing knockback.

Grenades, too powerful need less damage for something that can just be "Spamed" into the enemy lines.

Tire is put on "E" but can only be used to kill 1 person not a whole team wipe.

Oh, and you can no longer kill a Bastion by dying on him since we are nurfing the amount of damage that does. THERE FIXED.

Would you play him? Would you even want to?
No you wouldn't, and neither would I.

Would you be as mad about the changes as we are about the changes to Mercy?
Yes, yes you would.

Step into our shoes for a moment. You NEVER play Mercy and NEVER have so how can you come in here and judge us?

I also play Junkrat and I had one where I set up a trap then mine, got hooked by Roadhog, jumped back and detonated my mine. I was knocked back by my mine, saving me, but more importantly I knocked 4 people off the side getting POG for 4 Environmental Kills, and that with the now Nerfed mines because they still have knockback. But if they Nerfed the snot out of Junkrat you can bet I wouldn't want to play him.
They need to fix that 1-2 second animation where she raises her hand. In first person, at the very least make it less awkward and sluggish. I get that it's supposed to take a little bit of time, but add some zest to it. Every other first person animation feels great, but that hand raising triggers me to no end.

Like add more emphasis into her arm coming up or something, her left arm at the moment looks like it's asleep.
Mercy is blizzards punching bag at this point they nerfed her just for the sake that other characters can be viable instead of actually fixing the issue. Don’t get me wrong Valkyrie needed some tweaks and it would have been fine but it’s too late, what I fear is we might see a mercy 5.0 before we see any stability with her at all. And what people keep saying for Rez to be removed, get over yourselves we are just as dedicated to this character same to you if they did the same to literally anyone else it would be the same reaction and outcry for a revert or rework. Sure she’s still viable, but that doesn’t change the fact that Valkyrie is garbage as an ultimate it doesn’t impact and in no way shape or form help at all I’d rather use a zen ult that this train wreck
#fixourmercy
02/11/2018 06:07 AMPosted by QuizzyBunny
02/11/2018 05:03 AMPosted by True0Neutral
...

Unfortunately, given how closely Res is tied to Mercy's identity as a character it's not going to be removed. I don't recall exactly where but I could swear it's been mentioned that Res is integral to Mercy and that there will be continual attempts to balance it as an ability.


If you had continued to read you would have seen that I put it back in her ult, where it belongs.


That's true. I had to read your post over again to actually get it. For some reason I didn't notice it straight off.
02/11/2018 12:14 PMPosted by Roseblite
02/11/2018 06:42 AMPosted by shakeappeal
Mercy is pretty much fine now, still more potent than a host of under-served heroes on the roster. Her community of mains should feel some measure of embarrassment for how badly they have handled this change. It was for the good of the game, and everyone who isn't a Mercy main is happy.


For everyone, specifically DPS and Tank mains, who think that Mercy is fine please try this.

Go into Quickplay and pick Mercy (not Competitive, I don't want you accused of throwing).
Try to use Resurrect in plain view of opponent's team.
See if you live through it.
Then find somebody who is away from the fight and use Resurrect. (basically hide and rez)
See if you survive that.
Then play with the Ult in it's current form and see how useful it is.

This is what you will find:
1) Survivability of trying a rez where the enemy can see you is nill to just about nill. With almost 2 seconds where you cannot move, you just became "Sniper Bait"
2) The complaint about "Hide and Rez" doesn't change because you will NOT survive unless you hide TO rez.
3) Her Ult is a bad version of Zenyatta's ult, less healing over several heroes.

The ORIGINAL rework was an attempt to get Mercy more engaging in the game, instead of hiding from the fight once rez had been gained, but lets see what other heroes hide then pull their Ults to save the day.

Junkrat's tire can be used from as far away as Spawn to take out everyone on the point.
McCree sneaking up behind enemy team, spending up to a minute to do so, and it's "High Noon"
Reaper pulling a "Death from above" to take out everyone on the cart.

Now, if those 3 examples were reworked, and the rework turned out to be MORE powerful than the original thus had to be Nerfed for balance. Then get Nerfed several times to where lets say Reaper's gun had about as much power as a Mercy pop-gun (using him as an example) and the Ult no longer took out everyone. Wouldn't those people be yelling for a Revert to the original, which only really needed a tweak or two to fix to where it wasn't OP. This, THIS RIGHT HERE is exactly why we are so passionate about what has been done to Mercy. If they did the same thing, nerfed the snot out of every DPS and Tank in the game Overwatch would be as much fun as.... Oh wait, the Nerfing of everyone just killed the game and no one wants to play it.


I really wish Blizz would do some "Undercover Boss" type thing where they all use anon accounts to play Mercy in competitive games across all ranks for a week.

Have them take note of how many times they felt like they were able to really contribute/turn a fight in their favor. She's all risk and no reward right now.

Why rez when you're going to put your team at a disadvantage bc you have to stop healing everyone to go die/stagger yourself 90% of the times you try to do it? Even if you pull it off and rez someone... by that time you lost someone else on your team or even multiple. Now you staggered 2+ people instead of one, given the enemy even more ult charge and wasted time on the scoreboard.

The only thing rez does now is make one teammate go "Oh cool I don't have to walk back from spawn I guess??"

What's the point of her ults mobility if you're not using it to try and get around to rez?

"My ults ready I guess it's time to Leeeroy Jenkins up in the air so I can get focused down by the enemy team!"

"My ults ready I guess it's time to stop healing my team and dodge a dVa bomb/Grav that my whole team will die in anyway"

"My ults ready I guess I'll use it on this push so instead of clicking between teammates I can just hold m1, hover a foot off the ground behind reins shield and sip on this glass of water while my team gets naded/ulted and dies"

Her *best case scenarios when using either ability* are not rewarding at all.

You can use them perfectly and you're still just going to end up at a disadvantage 99/100 times or *best case scenario* = not really making any impact at all.

They were headed in the right direction with her changes when people like xQc and Calvin were fighting over who got to play her. She was fun and she was useful. She was OP but the things that made her OP were "She's hard to kill in Valk because of her regen/Her ult lasts too long/She undoes first picks"

So why didn't they test things like tweaking her regen or removing it? Shortening Valk duration? Making her E rez not available for free at the start of every match? Adjusting her Valk hit box?

They just nerfed every other aspect of her kit which makes what she has left.. pointless.

They didn't try to fix her actual issues. They might not have even known what exactly people were complaining about. She still has her Regen in Valk. She still has her Rez ready to go. She still has her Valk hitbox. She's still a "moth" but she's just a moth that can't do anything but be a moth now.


I want the Mercy that at least somewhat resembles the "New Mercy" that they advertised.

"gives her the opportunity for big game-making plays and opens a number of new options for her"

"Rez is still an important part of Mercy’s kit, but plays much better for both Mercy players and her enemies."

"We came up with something special for Mercy so that her new ult is really worthy of the hero"

They've given and taken away too much at this point.

Increased pistol damage? Nope nvm
Increased fire rate? Nope nvm
GA speed? Nope nvm
GA reset? Nope nvm
3 rezzes? Nope nvm
2 rezzes? Nope nvm
1 rez? Sure, Dare you to try it

I think this is the last post I'll make because I'm mostly repeating myself but I really hope they do read these and understand that she's not okay in this state.

I know that there's this 'Hush hushh' thing surrounding Mercy where not enough people are voicing their real opinions about how badly they nerfed her because like my friend said "I'd rather Mercy be unplayable than a must pick". So while people are saying "She's fine! She still heals for a lot!" on the forums... they're in games going "Lul Mercy is trash the witch is dead. Lul playing Mercy in 2018? OmegaLulkappa Mercy is trash now"

(Isn't that proof that she.. as a hero.. is too weak? It has nothing to do with the people playing her. To be able to say "Anyone who plays Mercy is gonna fall to Bronze now Lul" should be a big sign that she needs some work)

I hope people keep speaking up for her.
I think a good rework would be to keep Valkyrie, but make it like 10 to 12 seconds maybe even keep it at 15, and give her instant rez while in her ult form. Then after she uses her rez in her ult make the cool down 15 seconds. That way people aren't brought back twice in a row, but she'll also get that second rez. Plus itll give people 15 seconds to recover from her first rez.
I don't feel like I'm having any impact on the outcome of the fight anymore.

I don't know what to do with Valkyrie. Right now I'm using it to escape enemy ults- but what good does that do my team? Genji ults, I ult, I feebly try to heal all my teammates through his ult and they still die, leaving me floating above like a drone.

Mercy's ult is now "Watch Your Teammates Die Below You."

I'm sorry team. I tried. My best bet is to ult and bounce off the point repeatedly to stall for time.
I'll throw my 2 cents.

I have always played supports, Mercy more than others, and I don't think that the issue with her current state is that she is underpowered at all.

I think that she still is the most reliable source of healing, she was the best at doing that and still is.

My issue with her current state is that pressing the ultimate button doesn't "feel" like an ultimate. You get to fly freely, true, but other than that you barely notice any difference. It's true that you are healing more effectively but you don't get the feeling of doing something "special", like every ultimate should give.

It's also true that right now resurrection may only be used "out of combat", basically it saves some (sometimes very precious) seconds preventing your team to wait for a respawn after an unfortunate death from afar, and I think it kinda defeats the purpose of the ability IMHO.

I don't have the right solution to the problem, the first thing that comes to my mind maybe is to give Mercy a few additional HP (it's a battle suit in the end, it would be like activating some emergency defences) while Valk is active to let her have a little higher chance of surviving a rez. It's something that should be fine tuned but may be worth it.
I don't think that something like this would put her anywhere near the status she was pre-nerf but at least it would let her do something "special" during her ult, something that would still be risky and that should be thought through by the player.
Friendly reminder, Mercy's big play potential, you know that thing Blizz said we'd get more of?, has been reduced to getting assists from different allies during Valk, pulling her gun or rezing someone who makes a big play right after giving her the credit for their play.
So it's virtually nonexistent.
The options are hard limited.
https://youtu.be/oq_SLeMWWEA?t=156

Seriously tho, this is a lot of coordination to deal with just a 2 man rez.
Mercy main since launch here. I've been through the tempo resurrect Mercy era, and made masters in the "Mercy is awful why would you play her" era. I took some time off around the time the valk rework first came out - played it a little bit, but was doing other stuff in my life so didn't grind comp or anything. And now I'm going through the current Mercy era.

I have NO problem with Mercy's power level right now. She is a good support with a unique ability that brings something useful to the team. Moreover, I think the support pool right now is fairly well balanced. Moira might need a small nerf, and Symmetra is of course just the meme queen we all know and love, but that's not the point here.

The point here is not that Mercy is weak now, or that you get laughed out of games for playing her, or anything like that. The point here is that Mercy now FEELS slow and not fun to play. The 2 second resurrect cast and slow FEELS awful. Valkyrie now doesn't FEEL interesting or fun. Mercy's ultimate ability now is just another mass healing support ultimate with Pharah's regular flight tacked onto it.

Every hero has his or her thing. That thing the hero is known for that makes the player FEEL cool. Tracer and Genji zip around fights picking off squishies. Roadhog hooks someone in. Junkrat sits there with left click held down and watches the damage pour in. Whatever it is, everyone has it. With this change, Mercy doesn't.

I love Mercy. I love her character, I love the full support playstyle where your team's success is your success, and I love resurrect being a powerful thing unique to her. But when I'm virtually not allowed to resurrect in combat, and the way I am reminded of that every time my support instincts kick in is to destroy the momentum of the fight for 2 whole seconds, it FEELS bad.

I don't care what you have to do to balance it. Give me multiple resurrects, and make them fast. Make Mercy FEEL good to play again.
When I first heard her new ultamite was called Valkery, I dead !@# imagined her pulling out her shield and sword all while exerting a healing and damage boost aura and joining the fight with her team.
I think mercy is alright now, I still don't like how she gives herself and another player immunity to damage while resurrecting.
02/11/2018 12:39 PMPosted by SaidTheBear
getting a good laugh at all the downvotes from the mercy mains

res is bad for the game. it sucks to need to have mercy on your team.. and it sucks to play against it. i hate it and would rather see a moira (as annoying as she is) anyday. or hell, for that matter, an Ana which is awesome, and a zen.


So you would prefer Mercy being unable to resurrect you when you have sick awesome positioning but unfortunately died and Mercy refused to resurrect you due to the current state the Res is in.

Lets face it... on paper, to Blizzard, Res in its current iteration is fine (for now), but in reality it is a horrific skill.

Also on the subject of Moira... no joke, just playing QP today and practising DPS and oh my gawd... people cannot kill as DPS or create space as tank... in the end even if it meant having triple support... I brought out Moira... completely table turned 6 matches today using just raw aggressive Moira.

My healing is a bit meh but improving but the sheer aggression I give out... its hilarious when a Support hero counters better than the DPS who are failing to fill their roles to not only eliminate but to counter pick their natural counters.

Did get into some counterpick fights because in a few matches the enemy player got annoyed with me and switch to counter.

To be honest... I expect to see this in Competitive... but ironically it exist in QP. Oh not to mention how people so horribly miss as Genji... I mean seriously if people want to self proclaim themselves as DPS mains they need to take their own advice and git gud...

A part of me really wants to get back into Battle Mercy and begin retraining my aggressive Mercy gameplay. Whilst yes I won't have a decent Ultimate... I kinda want to see myself getting PoTG once again with my sheer skill in healing and eliminations outside of Valkyrie.
02/11/2018 02:22 PMPosted by Alexaction
https://youtu.be/oq_SLeMWWEA?t=156

Seriously tho, this is a lot of coordination to deal with just a 2 man rez.


Actually that is called doing your job as a DPS, predicting that Mercy would fly in and then counter ult the resurrect and ensure not just 2, but 3 people die and Res was rendered useless.

If you can't do that and want to spray damage at random stuff, you need to get more practice. Literally for Mercy players on our end, 1.0 Mercy was all about ultimate tracking and play positioning of not just your team mates but your enemy as well. To me... personally I felt the game was more Competitive because there was a challenge.

Now... the quality of the match is no better if not worst than Quick Play.

02/11/2018 02:35 PMPosted by Ðr0wsŷLőuiš
I think mercy is alright now, I still don't like how she gives herself and another player immunity to damage while resurrecting.


Current Res doesn't offer immunity to Mercy. If you can't flood her with damage in 1.75 seconds then you really need to work on target priority and aim... For me (not a DPS main) I tend to take her down to 25~50% remaining health then I add as much pressure as I can and can usually kill her... as D.Va I can definitely do it as Widow... meh I need to calm down when I snipe... lately I'm just panicking and being too trigger happy.

02/11/2018 02:26 PMPosted by Docholphal
Moira might need a small nerf, and Symmetra is of course just the meme queen we all know and love, but that's not the point here.


Moira is like the best thing against Symmetra right now... like DPS find it so hard to kill her... and honestly as a Tank I feel like she is a night mare to deal with if I'm having to engage with enemy tanks... last thing I want is dealing with a small hit box lady running circles and ramping up damage...

So insert Moira... give up a few seconds of healing and just flood damage in on Sym before she can ramp up, eliminate her and thats a massive hole in the cancer set up.

Moira's nerf is going to be similar to Mercy's res situation... like I agree she is a beast on damage dealing... but she is by no means durable... like she can recover dealing damage... but cannot recover as she heals. Her Orbs are there to assist in healing or damaging...

Heal wise she is limited... once resource is dry you can't do anything making her as a solo healer... inferior to Mercy.

Damage dealing, she is fantastic and honestly as a support player I cannot ask for more because I can do a better job than that odd wannabe Genji on our team.

But Moira is not without her flaws... she can't regenerate through heavy or focused damage. Her Healing is inferior to Mercy in terms of reliability, to damage deal means you have to give up healing and usually when team needs HPS, I honestly feel like I need to run Mercy... I'm spraying and orbing but we are not making progress so its either run Mercy with unlimited resource or go on the offensive and eliminate as much of the back line as you can to create an opening.
02/11/2018 01:47 AMPosted by Lithy
Sorry, but you said this so many times that I must talk. Resurrect is known as an ultimate's counter. Ok, tell me now, how did Resurrect works? You use your mass kill ultimate and then, after you use it Resurrect can be used and it brings your dead teammates to live. You have used your ult, but Resurrect has countered it. This is how it worked, and everybody knows that it was an ultimate's counter. How undoing Resurrect with another ult can't be a way to counter it? How can the only thing that counter something done be Resurrect following your logic? That doesn't make any sense.


Your post is a bit hard to understand. Undoing Rez with an ultimate is a very brute force method, and keeping it from happening doesn't solve the problem for long enough with how much of an impact it can have. If there was a way to stop her as she was in the cast time, then yeah I wouldn't be having this arguement.

02/11/2018 06:17 AMPosted by AkiraNasuki
6v1 all 6 fails to kill Mercy and she cast resurrect.

Had Genji and Winston saved their ults they would have a better time killing Mercy. Winston with Tesla and if they failed Genji only has to activate ult and slash through the resurrect possible catching Mercy and a few squishy and winston can ult and push some res victims off the edge where they resurrected.

But fact remains... Res as a ultimate is an earned ability, you have to heal to gain and its a one shot use until recharged.


In this example you've shown that Genji and winston pop ult SPECIFICALLY to kill the Mercy or prevent her from killing her team. The Winston's not that dumb if he doesn't know that while in GA Mercy's not effected by knockback. Winston killing the mercy with his tesla cannon takes a little over three seconds if she's at full health, so that would be even worse than if he hadn't popped ult. The Genji should be able to deal with the Mercy with ult if she's not in los of her teammates' dead bodies, then shifting in provides that opportunity for Mercy to fly in. Heck even if they waited for her to Rez Dragonblade wouldn't guarantee a rewipe and winston knocking people back won't kill them at all in most maps.

Don't even say that's its earn in that aspect, since if she tries to use it and is killed before she gets it off, she still has it. It takes way too much coordination and forward thinking to deal with this support ult compared to any other in the game.
02/11/2018 12:14 PMPosted by Roseblite
Try to use Resurrect in plain view of opponent's team.
See if you live through it.


This is just a bad move. You don't do this because it'll get you killed, you don't get mad at the ability for getting you killed, you're the one that decided to use it at a bad time!

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