[Feedback Thread] Mercy Updates - Jan 30, 2018

General Discussion
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02/12/2018 02:21 AMPosted by cola
Can you play her in your next 10 matches?


Have been. I like her.

More than that though, I enjoy playing against her now. I also like having her on my team. Not as much as before, but she was OP and broken before.

As for Junkrat, I play a lot of Junkrat. So you're not going to get anything but hostility from me if you mention nerfs, but I expect that from you about mercy. Just not to the exclusion of discussing things.

02/12/2018 02:21 AMPosted by cola
It's like saying "Ok you can riptire but you can't take cover while you do it and the range is 3 meters " "Ok you can riptire but you'll only ever be able to kill 1 person with it at a time and you can't take cover/be at range while you hold still" (Would it ever be worth it to have to stand still to try and kill one person if it means that you'll probably be killed before your target is?) "Ok you can spam bombs but the aoe is going to damage you, too" "Ok you can scatter but there's a chance they'll bounce off a wall and back into your head" "Ok you can use sonic but it'll also reveal your own location to the enemy" "Ok you can use Dragons but .. (ok this ability is pretty underpowered already)


It's nothing like saying that. Not like any of it. This is an apples and oranges case.

Junkrat OP and Hanzo OP are opinions.

Mercy had a 95%+ play-rate. She was on both teams almost every game, and in the 2% of games that didn't have a mercy on one team, that team almost always lost. Mercy being OP and making everyone who didn't play her, and more than a few people who did, miserable was not an opinion. It was a fact.

02/12/2018 02:21 AMPosted by cola
That's how it feels to play Mercy. Her abilities are more risk than reward. Everything she does is just "ok" even if she "does it perfectly".


I disagree. Before she didn't have any risk. Valk builds quickly, and rez has a long CD so chances are you would (or could) have Valk for almost every rez.

Valk removed risk from rez. It also removed most risk from actually being shot an killed because of how difficult a valking mercy was to hit. Not just by scrubs like me, but by pros.

Any change on the level of Mercy's rework is going to shake up her fan-base. People are going to find that they don't like the new Mercy. On the bright side, there are 25 other characters for those players to try out, and 25 more chances for them to find one that they like.

Likewise, there are now a lot of people who didn't like mercy before, who can now give her a shot as though she were a new character and possibly start playing her regularly.

Same thing since the nerf because there are people who refuse to play the FOTM grossly OP characters.

With this patch being solely nerf-centric, there are a lot of players who are dissatisfied because they like playing "the most powerful character", and that character was Mercy. The FOTM crowd (Flavor of the Month, if you aren't familiar) are always loud and negative when nerfs roll in. Especially when they target their latest favorite.

Make sure you're not defending them too hard because they don't actually care about Mercy. They just care about being OP.

They are on your side at the moment. Don't forget that.
02/12/2018 02:38 AMPosted by Arandmoor
02/12/2018 02:21 AMPosted by cola
Can you play her in your next 10 matches?


Have been. I like her.

More than that though, I enjoy playing against her now. I also like having her on my team. Not as much as before, but she was OP and broken before.

As for Junkrat, I play a lot of Junkrat. So you're not going to get anything but hostility from me if you mention nerfs, but I expect that from you about mercy. Just not to the exclusion of discussing things.

02/12/2018 02:21 AMPosted by cola
It's like saying "Ok you can riptire but you can't take cover while you do it and the range is 3 meters " "Ok you can riptire but you'll only ever be able to kill 1 person with it at a time and you can't take cover/be at range while you hold still" (Would it ever be worth it to have to stand still to try and kill one person if it means that you'll probably be killed before your target is?) "Ok you can spam bombs but the aoe is going to damage you, too" "Ok you can scatter but there's a chance they'll bounce off a wall and back into your head" "Ok you can use sonic but it'll also reveal your own location to the enemy" "Ok you can use Dragons but .. (ok this ability is pretty underpowered already)


It's nothing like saying that. Not like any of it. This is an apples and oranges case.

Junkrat OP and Hanzo OP are opinions.

Mercy had a 95%+ play-rate. She was on both teams almost every game, and in the 2% of games that didn't have a mercy on one team, that team almost always lost. Mercy being OP and making everyone who didn't play her, and more than a few people who did, miserable was not an opinion. It was a fact.

02/12/2018 02:21 AMPosted by cola
That's how it feels to play Mercy. Her abilities are more risk than reward. Everything she does is just "ok" even if she "does it perfectly".


I disagree. Before she didn't have any risk. Valk builds quickly, and rez has a long CD so chances are you would (or could) have Valk for almost every rez.

Valk removed risk from rez. It also removed most risk from actually being shot an killed because of how difficult a valking mercy was to hit. Not just by scrubs like me, but by pros.

Any change on the level of Mercy's rework is going to shake up her fan-base. People are going to find that they don't like the new Mercy. On the bright side, there are 25 other characters for those players to try out, and 25 more chances for them to find one that they like.

Likewise, there are now a lot of people who didn't like mercy before, who can now give her a shot as though she were a new character and possibly start playing her regularly.

Same thing since the nerf because there are people who refuse to play the FOTM grossly OP characters.

With this patch being solely nerf-centric, there are a lot of players who are dissatisfied because they like playing "the most powerful character", and that character was Mercy. The FOTM crowd (Flavor of the Month, if you aren't familiar) are always loud and negative when nerfs roll in. Especially when they target their latest favorite.

Make sure you're not defending them too hard because they don't actually care about Mercy. They just care about being OP.

They are on your side at the moment. Don't forget that.


I'm supposed to listen to the opinion of a Junkrat main? A hero as broken as mercy
dropping by again to say :)

#RevertMercy
02/12/2018 01:42 AMPosted by Arandmoor
I love how anyone who says that Mercy is now in a good place, and not completely awful, gets downvoted and seemingly ignored.

This is supposed to be a place for discussion.

Also, face it mercy-fans. Everybody who was NOT you absolutely HATED Mercy. Not just since her rework, but since the rise of Hide & Seek. Her playstyle was toxic.

She is in a better place. Probably the best place she's been in since release.

Also, this does NOT mean there isn't possibly room for improvement. It just means that I don't hate playing the game because of this character.


We hated all this rework and we didn't like hid and rez, so we didn't use that strategy. There is where you miss the whole point. You just generalise and because a bunch of boosted Mercys used that strategy you think all of us used it. The answer is NO. Valkirie's rework never introduced a more engaging play style. In fact, actually Mercy MUST hide and rez and MUST hide while ulting. If we didn't like hide and rez, how do you think we can like it now?

And sorry, but no. Mercy is in her worst spot ever. She never was so unfun and so boring to play, and she never took so much toxicity before. You miss that point too. You need to see the whole picture.

02/12/2018 02:38 AMPosted by Arandmoor
With this patch being solely nerf-centric, there are a lot of players who are dissatisfied because they like playing "the most powerful character", and that character was Mercy. The FOTM crowd (Flavor of the Month, if you aren't familiar) are always loud and negative when nerfs roll in. Especially when they target their latest favorite.


And once again, sorry for destroying your bubble, here nobody liked playing an op character because that op character was UNFUN too. What we want is a balanced and fun character, and this design is not that. Old Mercy was kinda balanced, so that would be a good start point. Valkirie is awful to play as and with. Current Resurrect is awful to play as and with. Actually Mercy is only fun to play against because you can laught at her trying to do something out of her basics, so clunky she has become.
02/12/2018 01:42 AMPosted by Arandmoor
I love how anyone who says that Mercy is now in a good place, and not completely awful, gets downvoted and seemingly ignored.

This is supposed to be a place for discussion.

Also, face it mercy-fans. Everybody who was NOT you absolutely HATED Mercy. Not just since her rework, but since the rise of Hide & Seek. Her playstyle was toxic.

She is in a better place. Probably the best place she's been in since release.

Also, this does NOT mean there isn't possibly room for improvement. It just means that I don't hate playing the game because of this character.


I'm downvoting you because the only reasons you have that suggest that the mercy rework was a success is her playstyle. Mercy is not the only hero that hides and gets rewarded for it. The only difference is that she is a support hero so that's considered weird and unfair. And please elaborate on her playstyle being "toxic".
02/11/2018 05:43 PMPosted by Coulumbo
Too many people in here trying to argue that Mercys rework isnt fun

https://www.overbuff.com/heroes

Mercy is still the 3rd most picked hero in the past week. More people are logging on to Overwatch and choosing to play Mercy post-nerf than 23 other heroes.

Blizzard isnt going to acknowledge any "boring" argument from a dozen or so posters if she continues to see such playtime.


You ignorant rat. Overbuff doesn't show statistics for all Overwatch players. And she being unfun is an opinion. You can't disprove it however by saying that she's the 3rd most picked.
For those who are playing devils advocate and think you know what your talking about when it comes to overwatch and how we feel towards our favorite hero and wanting to help fix the character your biased opinions don’t matter. If your actually in this mega thread to have a constructive argument using your big people words and try to help mercy, which most of us are please with all the love and respect I can muster go away. Listening to youtubers or pros opinions is what got us here in the first place cause they were on board for the initial mercy rework but most mercy mains or supports mains didn’t, and then when all we asked for is to dial it down just a notch they turned it all the way down and now we’re stuck in this mess of what you call mercy now. Mercy mains don’t give up let’s fight this thing
#fixourmercy
02/12/2018 02:56 AMPosted by Arceus
02/12/2018 01:42 AMPosted by Arandmoor
I love how anyone who says that Mercy is now in a good place, and not completely awful, gets downvoted and seemingly ignored.

This is supposed to be a place for discussion.

Also, face it mercy-fans. Everybody who was NOT you absolutely HATED Mercy. Not just since her rework, but since the rise of Hide & Seek. Her playstyle was toxic.

She is in a better place. Probably the best place she's been in since release.

Also, this does NOT mean there isn't possibly room for improvement. It just means that I don't hate playing the game because of this character.


I'm downvoting you because the only reasons you have that suggest that the mercy rework was a success is her playstyle. Mercy is not the only hero that hides and gets rewarded for it. The only difference is that she is a support hero so that's considered weird and unfair. And please elaborate on her playstyle being "toxic".


Think it's "die on point, my ult is ready", which translated into normal language as "stay on point while you fight, so I can give you all a second chance if fight goes poor for us."

It's "toxic" as it requires to use your brain for once, instead of pure reflexes, to determine who saves their ultimates in case of mass resurrect. Hide & seek began, when it became clear that not a single player wants to save their ultimate, so only choice left is to kill Mercy, which also won't hide just behind next corner, when enemies are searching for her.

On topic of "hiding is not something supports should do": all supports hide if they can't heal all incoming damage.
The answer is NO. Valkirie's rework never introduced a more engaging play style. In fact, actually Mercy MUST hide and rez and MUST hide while ulting. If we didn't like hide and rez, how do you think we can like it now?

That's some twisted argument. There's a huge difference between hide behind a corner waiting for your teammates to die and hide behind a shield to rez an ally for two seconds, and if you can't see the difference you're either insane or just blinded by your main.

You know, that's why it's so dificult to discuss Mercy right now, some of you are in your echo chamber for so long that your arguments stopped to make sense but that doesn't matter because all you have to do is post #RevertMercy and there'll be 10 upvotes. It's really sad, but it's all on you after all.
02/12/2018 02:56 AMPosted by Lithy
What we want is a balanced and fun character, and this design is not that. Old Mercy was kinda balanced, so that would be a good start point.

You see? That's what I'm talking about. Old Mercy was kinda balanced but definitely is NOT a good start point. It had a fundamental problem that the devs said a lot of times and you just can't make that work. Mass rez is a fundamental problem that they tried to get rid of, so guess what?, going back to that is not the best way to get rid of it.
You can have the opinion that old Mercy was more engaged and fun to play, but you just can't say that she's best for the game as a whole given the problems they tried to solve.
There's not a single good idea to tweak old mass rez that wouldn't either keep the same hide-and-rez strat or make it useless.
02/12/2018 03:07 AMPosted by Estranhow
The answer is NO. Valkirie's rework never introduced a more engaging play style. In fact, actually Mercy MUST hide and rez and MUST hide while ulting. If we didn't like hide and rez, how do you think we can like it now?

That's some twisted argument. There's a huge difference between hide behind a corner waiting for your teammates to die and hide behind a shield to rez an ally for two seconds, and if you can't see the difference you're either insane or just blinded by your main.

You know, that's why it's so dificult to discuss Mercy right now, some of you are in your echo chamber for so long that your arguments stopped to make sense but that doesn't matter because all you have to do is post #RevertMercy and there'll be 10 upvotes. It's really sad, but it's all on you after all.


new mercy has a flawed kit

doubt you went through and read the thousands of amazing suggestion threads and very long thread that are almost 3-5 pages worth per thread and took some people days to write . But oc you wouldn't , your judging is based on a very limited and wrong knowledge.

But I can see why from your time on her , you never tested anything properly and you never played mercy 1.0 or any of her versions to understand
A rework shouldn't make a character OP - people seem to have forgotten that just before the rework Mercy players were on the forums saying "Hey, this is a massive buff, it's probably going to be OP". Yeah a lot of people picked her up because she was - we're not defending that as a good thing.

A rework should not alienate her old players - whether or not it encourages new ones.

A rework that aims to fix the problem of "hide and rez" and ends up with "hide behind a corner for 15s and heal" hasn't really solved the issue that we had in the first place.

I would argue that tempo rez is still op, especially at lower ranks and in QP where people are likely to kill an easier target first, be wiped by the team and leave space for mercy to rez. Normally if you got a pick behind enemy lines you push in your 6v5 advantage. Mercy can still undo those types of picks meaning defending teams can still stall choke every 30s. Even at higher ranks - Widow got a nice trick shot in the sky over the hanamura choke? Too bad mercy is gonna rez while the rest of the team covers and forces widow to move

The problem with valkyrie right now is there is no incentive to put yourself at risk, which is something a lot of us have been saying since it was nerfed to double rez. You popped ult, rez, rez, hide and heal.

Now you pop ult and immediately get as far away as you can and hide while you heal.

Im not suggesting we have rez as an ability and rez during ult, its an either or situation. Honestly an ability that powerful should be an ult imo, but if not then there needs to be something else to encourage mercy to be on the field during a fight, not afk in the skybox/around a corner for 15s where no one can kill her. There are parts of her kit during ult that are largely redundant, namely rez and infinite ammo. If she could heal and use her pistol during her ult id be more likely to be close, at the moment its not worth risking my 5x damage boost to do that unless my dps is appalling
02/12/2018 03:07 AMPosted by Estranhow
The answer is NO. Valkirie's rework never introduced a more engaging play style. In fact, actually Mercy MUST hide and rez and MUST hide while ulting. If we didn't like hide and rez, how do you think we can like it now?

That's some twisted argument. There's a huge difference between hide behind a corner waiting for your teammates to die and hide behind a shield to rez an ally for two seconds, and if you can't see the difference you're either insane or just blinded by your main.

You know, that's why it's so dificult to discuss Mercy right now, some of you are in your echo chamber for so long that your arguments stopped to make sense but that doesn't matter because all you have to do is post #RevertMercy and there'll be 10 upvotes. It's really sad, but it's all on you after all.


You are talking about the second option, I forgot it. Yes, there is a new mechanic. It is called "being babysitted". You can use it... I mean your tank can use it, or you can hide and rez, but you'll never see an engaging Mercy going for a risky rez as happened all the time before because that's suicide. Before a good Mercy never waited for her teammates to die, that's a boosted Mercy and I said that was the problem. In fact, even Taimu has said that old Mercy's problem was not about herself or her kit, it was her SR system which encouraged that strategy, so broken it was. Fixing old Mercy was so easy as fixing her SR system, something Blizz eventually did, after the rework (and there is the mistake).
02/12/2018 03:07 AMPosted by Estranhow
...
That's some twisted argument. There's a huge difference between hide behind a corner waiting for your teammates to die and hide behind a shield to rez an ally for two seconds, and if you can't see the difference you're either insane or just blinded by your main.

You know, that's why it's so dificult to discuss Mercy right now, some of you are in your echo chamber for so long that your arguments stopped to make sense but that doesn't matter because all you have to do is post #RevertMercy and there'll be 10 upvotes. It's really sad, but it's all on you after all.


new mercy has a flawed kit

doubt you went through and read the thousands of amazing suggestion threads and very long thread that are almost 3-5 pages worth per thread and took some people days to write . But oc you wouldn't , your judging is based on a very limited and wrong knowledge.

But I can see why from your time on her , you never tested anything properly and you never played mercy 1.0 or any of her versions to understand

Oh, sorry I can't sit with the cool guys on Mercy table because of my time on her, I'm devastated.

But on the other hand, given your time on Mercy only, I can say you can't see the whole picture of what is best for the game as a whole, since you don't know any other hero. So?
And for people saying she’s fun to play against now, I would to if went up against a support character that has a useless ultimate that didn’t actually help the team in a fight that’s perfectly fine. Overwatch is a MOBA FPS hybrid and if you can’t get that through your head then clearly this isn’t the game for you mercy’s Rez is here to stay. Fixing the Rez and ultimate not to an op state but making I feel much smoother with play with against etc is going to be healthier for the game. Deterring and making people feel belittled about a hero isn’t healthy for a community or a game think about it
<span class="truncated">...</span>

new mercy has a flawed kit

doubt you went through and read the thousands of amazing suggestion threads and very long thread that are almost 3-5 pages worth per thread and took some people days to write . But oc you wouldn't , your judging is based on a very limited and wrong knowledge.

But I can see why from your time on her , you never tested anything properly and you never played mercy 1.0 or any of her versions to understand

Oh, sorry I can't sit with the cool guys on Mercy table because of my time on her, I'm devastated.

But on the other hand, given your time on Mercy only, I can say you can't see the whole picture of what is best for the game as a whole, since you don't know any other hero. So?


I dont have time on mercy only

I have two accounts both silver portraits and have spent too much time on this game

hundreds of hours , on pharah , DVA , tracer, genji and others.

I've seen and faught every version of mercy as a dps and played every version of mercy at the same time

its easy to judge from one side of the coin , like its easy for me to judge junkrat as broken from my little time on him and say he's absolutely unhealthy for the game

but I don't because , I know I can be wrong.

sorry but yes your logic is flawed and the argument you used earlier was answered in a hundred other thread in details .

We've stated the flaws of 2.0 from the start, the players want the hero's kit fixed , not her balance being on an E ability that goes against the very mobile kit of the hero and takes away from her gameplay that's supposed to one the most mobile fast paced healer in the game if not character
02/12/2018 03:17 AMPosted by Estranhow
But on the other hand, given your time on Mercy only, I can say you can't see the whole picture of what is best for the game as a whole, since you don't know any other hero. So?


Well, a little balance. Old Mercy, most popular hero of the game and one of the most beloved; balanced, heroic, fun, dynamic, engaging, with lots of decision making, not a single complain (excepting when she was underpowered) until her SR exploit. Current Mercy, still kinda popular, the most hated and bullied character of the game; kinda balanced (?), a powerless slave healbot, unfun, slow motioned, unengaging, no decision making at all, only complains. If this is your concept of what is "good for the game" I'm afraid you are very far from the average.
02/12/2018 02:59 AMPosted by Arceus
Overbuff doesn't show statistics for all Overwatch players.


Speaking of which:

6.97% pickrate
49.83% winrate

On Fire still laughable.

It's rising. Which may mean, the time of shock is over. Because yes, we can adapt (even though it's annoying). Still it doesn't change the fact Valkyrie doesn't feel like an ultimate.

So... They discovered res is still there xd
02/12/2018 03:07 AMPosted by Estranhow
That's some twisted argument. There's a huge difference between hide behind a corner waiting for your teammates to die and hide behind a shield to rez an ally for two seconds, and if you can't see the difference you're either insane or just blinded by your main.


Sure there is a difference, But we are talking about her Ult not about her abilities.
You have to hide with Val far away from the battle, maybe even behind a corner. Otherwise, you die most of the time.
With the old Ult it was only an option to hide, a very bad one as well. A good Mercy player would take cover and there is a huge difference between taking cover or hiding.

02/12/2018 03:07 AMPosted by Estranhow
You know, that's why it's so dificult to discuss Mercy right now, some of you are in your echo chamber for so long that your arguments stopped to make sense but that doesn't matter because all you have to do is post #RevertMercy and there'll be 10 upvotes. It's really sad, but it's all on you after all.


Sometimes, maybe. But most of the time all arguments we give are supported with data, experiences, opinions and discussions. And #RevertMercy wouldn't get so many upvotes if it wasn't a supported opinion.

02/12/2018 03:13 AMPosted by Estranhow
You see? That's what I'm talking about. Old Mercy was kinda balanced but definitely is NOT a good start point. It had a fundamental problem that the devs said a lot of times and you just can't make that work. Mass rez is a fundamental problem that they tried to get rid of, so guess what?, going back to that is not the best way to get rid of it.


The concept of Mass Res had no fundamental problem's at all. The only real problem Mass Res had was that you couldn't counter it with raw aiming skills. And that was literally the only problem in terms of gamplay. The SR system only supported "hide and res" which was addressed after the rework.

02/12/2018 03:13 AMPosted by Estranhow
You can have the opinion that old Mercy was more engaged and fun to play, but you just can't say that she's best for the game as a whole given the problems they tried to solve.
There's not a single good idea to tweak old mass rez that wouldn't either keep the same hide-and-rez strat or make it useless.


You didn't read any post in here, did ya? There are more than enough ways to change Mass Res to completly destroy hide and res.

The Old Mercy was the best for the game. Befor the rework Ult economy was very important, now Ult's are just thrown in every situation, brainlessly. Only because of her rework.
Without insulting anyone, but the rework made the entire game dumber.
02/11/2018 05:43 PMPosted by Coulumbo
Too many people in here trying to argue that Mercys rework isnt fun

https://www.overbuff.com/heroes

Mercy is still the 3rd most picked hero in the past week. More people are logging on to Overwatch and choosing to play Mercy post-nerf than 23 other heroes.

Blizzard isnt going to acknowledge any "boring" argument from a dozen or so posters if she continues to see such playtime.


her pick rates of All ranks dropped from 15% to 6%

GrandMaster 16% -> 3% , it dropped even to 2% for some days
Master 17% -> 5%
Diamond 15% -> 6%
Platinum 14% -> 6%
Gold 14% -> 7%
Silver 13% -> 8%
Bronze 12% -> 8%

what are you saying ??????????

here is the link checkout yourself https://www.overbuff.com/heroes/mercy/trends

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