[Feedback Thread] Mercy Updates - Jan 30, 2018

General Discussion
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02/12/2018 06:29 AMPosted by ShadowStorm
And another Mercy topic locked.... sigh. All I know is we won't and can't be silenced about this absurd nerf to Mercy.


People are better off keep opening new topics as it seems they never read the feedback here anyway. They didn't even have the decency to post their 'conclusion' in this thread but instead in a random Mercy thread which actually got a response.

It's a shame Mercy is still in her current state with no mentioned plans for changing that or even testing changes. On the other hand now I'm back on tank heroes again I'm having more fun in some matches :).

I'd like to see some kind of buff done to Mercy's ultimate, something that makes it worthy of being called an ultimate again. I'm all up for something as simple as one instant resurrect, something that has a chance to turn the tide of the battle but also may not.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't one of the reasons Mercy got her rework to make her more engaging to play? My issue with the nerf isn't that she's criminally underpowered (I think she's still pretty decent), but that she's less engaging than ever. In a game all about heroes, she rarely has the opportunity to make hero plays like the rest of the cast. You use Valkyrie now and you just do the same thing you've always done - hold left/right click. I very sincerely hope that the dev team still has her on their radar, because she's just not fun to play right now.
02/10/2018 08:24 AMPosted by cola
I don't know what it is about REZZING that infuriates people. They can get a team all down to critical and then Lucio/Zen ult to save the whole team and no ones upset.

Zar/Pharah coordinate their Q's to wipe a team. Mercy coordinates a Q to counter that wipe. How is it Mercys fault and not the Enemy team for not including her in the grav or making sure she's dead first?

If you're Reaper trying to ult- you make sure Dvas shield is down
If you're Pharah trying to ult- you make sure Dvas shield/Anas sleep are down
If you're Genji trying to ult- you make sure Lucio/Zen ults are down
If you're Soldier trying to ult- you make sure Dvas shield is down
If you're Zar trying to ult - you make sure Zens down/Dva doesn't eat it/Genji doesn't reflect it

Why is it common sense to demech Dva? The answer isn't to "Delete dvas shield she cancelled my ult!"

Why isn't it common sense to deny Mercys rez by saving an ult to rewipe? Why isn't it common sense to kill Mercy or make sure she's included in your team wipes?

Why is the answer "REMOVE THAT ABILITY" because people didn't coordinate for it..

What if 5man rez was replaced by invulnerability. If Mercys ult made her whole team (in LoS) invulnerable like she does when she rezzes them? Similar to Lucio. Similar to Zen.

Would people be upset then?
People are very narrow-minded when it comes to counterplay. They all think that everything should be preemptive. That you should be able to stop it BEFORE it happens. Which did work with 1.0 Mercy with killing her first. And you could also bait her rez, which wasn’t difficult to do.

But if Mercy did get a big rez off, you could definitely set up an ult or two to re-wipe the team. People don’t want to accept that as counterplay. I made the damage reduction suggestion over invincibility many times when vying for a revert because I consider being able to kill the Mercy before her rezzed team can react as counterplay. A damage reduction would allow this without returning Mercy to her suicide rez state. With Mercy dead, the enemy team is down a healer which puts the other team at an advantage. I don’t think many would consider that as counterplay, when it actually is. It’s reactive counterplay.

Lucio and Zen, Dva's DM, Genji’s reflect are all preemptive in terms of denying ults or deaths. Mercy’s is the opposite, but it doesn’t make it more powerful. I guess people are more used to being denied kills through them surviving instead of them coming back from the dead.
Please revert mercy shes worse now in this new 2.0, 1.0 more fun more skillfull more everything wtf is this>??? you murdered meercy
Mercy 1.0 but with a cast time on her Rez depending on how many players you want to Rez and how far they are from where you're attempting to Rez.

a [Radial Rez]

Mercy's Ult has been changed from a Channeling Ult (?) in 1.0 "Press Q to Rez" to a Transformation Ult "Q makes yu fly higher" in her Current iteration... you might as well use her current kit to facilitate it.

Keep REZ as an ability that you can use, but on a 30 second cooldown with a 1.8 second cast time, exactly as it is now.

[Q] activates Valkyrie, fine, but during her Valkyrie State she has her [E] Ressurection available, she can swoop down and pull off a single 0.8 second insta-Rez, and lose it for another 30 seconds, or cast a 0.8+1 second for each player she wants to rez within an expending area of effect that increases the longer you cast, also must be in LoS and if you hold down [Cast Rez] too long she will die.

There was another idea to bring heroes back to life with less health but that would be like bringing someone back just to die again., so scrap that idea
02/12/2018 01:42 AMPosted by Arandmoor
I love how anyone who says that Mercy is now in a good place, and not completely awful, gets downvoted and seemingly ignored.

This is supposed to be a place for discussion.

Also, face it mercy-fans. Everybody who was NOT you absolutely HATED Mercy. Not just since her rework, but since the rise of Hide & Seek. Her playstyle was toxic.

She is in a better place. Probably the best place she's been in since release.

Also, this does NOT mean there isn't possibly room for improvement. It just means that I don't hate playing the game because of this character.


I will respond with simply this repost. This also addresses the whole "old Mercy can't be balanced".

01/22/2018 06:30 AMPosted by Reverendpaqo
Hide and Rez existed because performance based SR gave significantly more SR than it should have for playing hide and rez. Mercys have been trying to get this fixed for almost a full year at this point (it still isn't fixed and you can literally go do it right now and it still works). This created the boosted Mercy mains. This created the Mercy players who were playing her in a way that was not intended. This created made Mercy the optimal choice for the players who wanted to abuse one tricking and abuse stat padding for SR manipulation. This was what led to all of the anger about Mercy and the state that she "needed" a rework. Don't get me wrong, old Rez still had its problems, just not 96% pick rate, entire meta defining, Mercy in every game type problems. While we were trying to prove that performance based SR was unfairly boosting unhelpful and toxic Mercy behavior and begging Blizzard to fix it, we got endless hate from non-Mercy players saying we just wanted to keep being able to play no skilled heros and be easily boosted... Which makes no sense, but what ever. Mercy is the community punching bag that everyone loves to hit over every single possible issue that they can come up with.

Many of us that play Mercy actively tried our butts off to convince Bliz to stop the Rez changes because we knew they were OP but we got hate from non-Mercy players saying we just didn't want anything nerfed.

Then comes the casting speed nerf and we again tried our butts off to try to convince Bliz to stop the changes because they not only didn't fix broken ability based Rezing, but also ruined her game flow and made her feel really slow, unengaged, and unfun for everyone who has been forced to play her because of the prior unwanted changes that made her meta. Non-Mercy players again slung hate at us saying we just don't want her nerfed even though the nerf didn't fix the problem and would just generate more anti-Mercy sentiment.

Now were at this point in time where the upcoming nerfs still will not fix her and we will keep seeing Blizzard pound Mercy farther and farther into the ground until she is totally dead and miserably unfun to play, an use that as a justification to remove Rez.

Honestly, I would have done 3 things if I were Blizzard. 1. Just fixed performance based SR by removing it. Its benefits are outweighed by the flaws and this can be seen by any example of one tricking and stat padding across the board. 2. Revert Mercy and leave old Rez exactly as it was before Valk came into the game with the exception that the person being revived have a visible health bar building up (kind of like a progress bar) and if the enemy lands enough damage on them while they are being revived it cancels the Rez. Adjust Rez directly as necessary to make that time long enough to provide a counterable window but also not be so easy it gets shutdown all the time. This would give a counter in the same spirit as shooting down Junk's tire. Oh, and this time actually take the feedback from PTR on if its wildly out of place. 3. Openly explain the reason for these changes. Basically because of the profound impact on the game when tweaked wildly, its better to leave Mercy as she was when she wasn't game defining and build a counter to Rez directly into the Rez ability and give a way for people to stop it from completing. Those 3 things would literally fix Mercy, but fat chance that will happen. We'll just see a bigger gradual mess until its justified to remove rez.
02/12/2018 02:21 AMPosted by cola
"Ok you can scatter but there's a chance they'll bounce off a wall and back into your head"


THIS ONE, I would like to see this one >:-3

Playing also Reinhardt (Mercy Main last few seasons, and I NEVER played "Hide and Rez") it was very annoying to round a corner and get Head-Shot by a scatter arrow when either shield was down or they snuck up behind me and shoot the ground. You want to talk OP, THAT is OP when you can take out a full health tank by shooting at his foot and getting 1 or more Head-shots out of it.Even worst, to try and outgun a Hanzo as a Mercy post Nerf and get him to 1HP and he pulls out "Scatter" killing me instantly... Since I was dead, I kind of mouthed off in Match Chat about how cowardly it was for a Hanzo to "Scatter" just to take out a Mercy that was outgunning him :-/
FUNNY thing was, even his teammates made fun of him for pulling that :-3
02/12/2018 03:42 AMPosted by Nicolas
02/12/2018 02:59 AMPosted by Arceus
Overbuff doesn't show statistics for all Overwatch players.


Speaking of which:

6.97% pickrate
49.83% winrate

On Fire still laughable.

It's rising. Which may mean, the time of shock is over. Because yes, we can adapt (even though it's annoying). Still it doesn't change the fact Valkyrie doesn't feel like an ultimate.

So... They discovered res is still there xd


@Arceus

Whilst it is true Overbuff isn't 100% accurate, it is the closest thing we have publicly to see. Also the monthly stats aren't that far a difference from what Blizzard provides.

Also I just wish people stopped using the Weekly range of data to justify their arguments. Like don't get me wrong... but the weekly data doesn't provide enough range... if anything... the pick rates are rising...

But if we look at the monthly data... which is what Blizzard use as well, given what they shown us in the past... Mercy has taken yet another .2% dip, going from 11.87% yesterday to 11.6%... which shows there is a 3.2~3.3% drop from her peak pick rate as the previous version of Mercy.

Whilst yes the stats aren't 100% accurate... there is enough data there, to get a good idea of how things are looking.

But we can safely say from this time last month to this now... Mercy is losing pick rates.

But on a weekly basis... Last Monday to now... she is on a pick rate climb.
Put it this way devs, I hadn't played for MONTHS and now I'm back and enjoying the game again after this nerf.
i still watching a lot of hipocrisy from a lot of people celebrating the butchering of one the best supports in game, while mercy needed a tone down, the nerf was way too damn hard, yet i read a lot :

"Mercy undone my kill, ruining my fun" "no skill hero" "press E to win" etc. etc.. when the other team has a mercy.

But... they never say that when they have a mercy in their team, i never saw a:

"OMFG skilless hero, dont rezz me, my fellow DPS in the other team worked too hard to get this kill, why are you undoing his work?, leave me alone you filthy mercy main and let me spawn in room"

on the contrary, they are happy of being rezzed in the spot and continue to happy triggering.

simply i cant understand the mentality of those people who instead of wanting a balance tweak they wanted gutted a hero to the point to make him/her useless and later ing-game "i need healing" " i need a rezz".
02/12/2018 08:52 AMPosted by Hauven
People are better off keep opening new topics as it seems they never read the feedback here anyway. They didn't even have the decency to post their 'conclusion' in this thread but instead in a random Mercy thread which actually got a response.


I upvoted you, but one correction. The reply was in a post that originally had NOTHING to do with Mercy.
Title:
Devs-Where Are You
Posted on 1st page, halfway down if Jeff's reply:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20761616811

In it's entirety, for those that don't want to go back to page 160something in this thread to find where Mercy players started posting it in the correct thread:
02/07/2018 05:37 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
We have no plans to revert Mercy. We also feel like she's not in a horrible place or unplayable.

It's still to be determined if she is exactly where she should be because it has been too soon and the dust needs to settle. Her playtime in QP and Comp is still incredibly high. Her winrate is still above 50% but more in line with what we'd expect.

But I'd like to put the notion that Mercy is going to be reverted to rest.

Also, we don't agree with the statement that all supports are weak. Support heroes are extremely powerful and impactful in OW.


The simple fact that he put it in a thread, that HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH MERCY, should be taken as a slap in the face to every Mercy player. He apparently wanted that post to not be noticed and missed by everyone in this thread simply by NOT putting it here.
02/12/2018 11:28 AMPosted by MadSkull
"OMFG skilless hero, dont rezz me, my fellow DPS in the other team worked too hard to get this kill, why are you undoing his work?, leave me alone you filthy mercy main and let me spawn in room"


Ironically only time I tell her not to res me is when she obviously dying or when she spam res me just to die immediately after res.

02/12/2018 11:35 AMPosted by Roseblite
The simple fact that he put it in a thread, that HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH MERCY, should be taken as a slap in the face to every Mercy player. He apparently wanted that post to not be noticed and missed by everyone in this thread simply by NOT putting it here.


Bit late to the party... we already know about that post.
02/12/2018 08:19 AMPosted by BubbleWrap
You have 3 hours total on Mercy, so I doubt you really took the time to sit down, digest her kit and analyze your gameplay


Dude...compared to you the developers haven't played their own game.

Should we have to play the game like it's a full time job before we post about character balance?
02/12/2018 08:04 AMPosted by Fumbles
Valkyrie isn't a bad ultimate. You have a beam for each teammate. That's like giving your team 4 extra Mercy's, essentially making team fights 10v6 for 15 seconds.


This is the same ridiculous as saying that Symmetra is overpowered because her six turrets turns the fight into a 6vs12.

02/12/2018 11:10 AMPosted by PSNisProniq
Put it this way devs, I hadn't played for MONTHS and now I'm back and enjoying the game again after this nerf.


Glad that you are having fun. Now realise that there are a lot of Mercy mains who hadn't played or hadn't had fun for months and they still don't have fun because their character is completely ruined with this rework and nobody cares about it, people even think they like being op. Damn, I would pay for having my old Mercy back instead of this god awful unplayable design.

Please devs (yes, I know they aren't looking, but let's try again), this rework has failed. Maybe your statistics about her pickrate and winrate don't show that, but look at her in flames rate and her average of rezzes in different ranks. The first one is the lowest with no point of comparison, that means she hasn't any real potential for make any real impact in the game. The second has only 1 rez of difference between the lowest and the highest rank. That means she hasn't any skill ceiling. Those are terrible design issues. That's why you must revert her or rework her asap. Also, look at the incredible number of complains you receive all the time (the first post in this thread has almost 1000 likes and it calls for a revert!). This design is not enjoyable, is not impactful, and it's less engaging than any other previous design. It's a shame even calling Mercy a "hero" actually with this kit. She was a hero, actually she isn't, because she can't do anything heroic.

Resurrect can't be an E ability because you need to punish a lot the Mercy when doing it for balancing it. It needs to be her ult again. Valkirie feels like an E ability actually, so turn it into that. Keep the bunny hop and go further with her SR fix if you want . If you don't want a revert, that's a good start point for a new fun and balanced Mercy with her identity (rez) and her focus (healing/mobility) restaured again.
The whole #revertmercy thing has really hurt the Overwatch community.

I hope it goes away soon now that Jeff confirmed that it is not happening.
02/12/2018 11:39 AMPosted by AkiraNasuki
Bit late to the party... we already know about that post.


Just putting it back up to remind people, especially DPS mains and the rest of the people posting here, that he pulled a screwie by not posting it in the correct thread. Where he apparently hoped people in THIS thread would not find it and it would be forgotten and he didn't have to deal with us. Fortunately someone found it and started posting it here, otherwise NO ONE WOULD KNOW ABOUT IT.

Seriously, how would ANYONE enjoy being herded into a Mega Thread, all other threads closed and rerouted there, about changes to their Hero being assured that they are listening to our discussion.

01/30/2018 01:21 PMPosted by Tom Powers
Hi everyone,

We've continued to see a heavy influx of conversations revolving around today's hero balance updates impacting Mercy.

In an effort to consolidate feedback and create a consistent location for users to share their impressions or opinions, please use this thread.
[url="https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/mercy/"]Mercy[/url]
  • Valkyrie
    • No longer makes Resurrect instant
    • No longer grants a bonus Resurrect charge
    • The speed bonus Guardian Angel receives when activating Valkyrie has been decreased by 50%
    • Duration reduced from 20 seconds to 15 seconds

Developer Comments: Mercy’s recent Resurrect changes have helped in allowing enemies to have more counter play in dealing with her, but she was able to use Resurrect through Valkyrie enough to largely mitigate the impact of the previous changes. Additionally, we’re toning back the amount of mobility Valkyrie provides through Guardian Angel and reducing its duration to overall reduce the power of this ability.

We appreciate your feedback, as it will assist us and provide insight on improving your Overwatch experience.

Thank you.


But getting the reply to all of our suggestions, insight, queries, etc. only to have it turn up IN THE WRONG THREAD.
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20761088072?page=1#detail

And THIS thread is only the latest Mega Thread on the Mercy problems, the other is MONTHS old and we NEVER got a reply to that one. Unless, once again, Jeff posted it in the wrong thread and no one found it at the time. very single Mercy thread that pops up, unless it is for something like a figurine or something like that, is immediately closed and rerouted here.
02/12/2018 12:06 PMPosted by Songstrider
02/12/2018 12:02 PMPosted by Coulumbo
The whole #revertmercy thing has really hurt the Overwatch community.

I hope it goes away soon now that Jeff confirmed that it is not happening.


Hurt the community? This is like blaming a *#!*#%!# victim because they got raped.


The people spamming for a Mercy revert are not victims. They are the offenders, trying to ruin everyone elses enjoyment of the game.

I hope that they find it within them to stop being so selfish and harmful.
Jeff no one cares what you feel like about mercy. She isnt fun to play and still more viable than ana and even moira if ur team is mobile.
She was just fine before you guys wrecked her with 1 super unbalanced rework then 4 nerfs in a row
Its aint just about not being in a bad place. Its also about being fun
I dont like spec cam. Give me my !@#$ing 5 man rez back and take ur 1 slow rez

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