[Feedback Thread] Mercy Updates - Jan 30, 2018

General Discussion
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02/12/2018 12:46 PMPosted by Coulumbo
02/12/2018 12:24 PMPosted by Lullabeii
...The only thing that has genuinely hurt the community about the rework is the devs failing the burden of proof.
They failed to provide concrete evidence that Mass Rez was beyond saving, thus failing to justify the need for a rework this extensive.
The backlash and requests for a revert they get is entirely their own fault for skipping out on proving there was no way to make it work.
Had they provided proof there would be no denying that as rough as the rework got it was ultimately going to be healthier than Mass Rez could've ever been. They didn't though. They dug this pit themselves.


The devs dont owe you proof of anything

If they dont want a playstyle in their game, they have every right to remove it

Then that's being a VERY shoddy developer. Devs are supposed to have good PR with their players. It's a recipe for a dying game by saying, "Shut up and enjoy what we put out for you because we know what's fun." Numerous games have died because of this mindset.

That's exactly what happened to Paragon because EPIC Games basically told their community to !@#$ off and relied on %^--kissers on the Paragon Subreddit to sustain their ego and revenue. Now, their game is announcing its closure this upcoming April. Only difference here is that Blizzard is ignoring a large portion of their playerbase instead of their entire playerbase.
02/12/2018 01:59 PMPosted by inplane
02/12/2018 12:46 PMPosted by Coulumbo
...

The devs dont owe you proof of anything

If they dont want a playstyle in their game, they have every right to remove it

Then that's being a VERY shoddy developer. Devs are supposed to have good PR with their players. It's a recipe for a dying game by saying, "Shut up and enjoy what we put out for you because we know what's fun." Numerous games have died because of this mindset.

That's exactly what happened to Paragon because EPIC Games basically told their community to !@#$ off and relied on %^--kissers on the Paragon Subreddit to sustain their ego and revenue. Now, their game is announcing its closure this upcoming April. Only difference here is that Blizzard is ignoring a large portion of their playerbase instead of their entire playerbase.


Hopefully they don't ruin fortnite, basically shut down paragon because their was no saving it. Instead they are putting a lot if not all of their focus on fortnite... fortnite is a lot of fun.
02/12/2018 01:25 PMPosted by BenjaminWolf
[I really don't understand the downvote... is it because I said the developers should listen to the community as a whole and not just the professional players, professional player opinions shouldn't be the only opinion that matter.]


I know who downvoted you and why, but I don't want to tell you because it would be probably some kind of toxicity. I'll say simply that there are people who don't want any type of dialogue, if they don't like what are you defending, they don't read, they downvote you and ignore your entire post. Sad, but true.

P.S.: Obviously, I didn't downvote you.
There are lots of other things they could have tried to split her kit in a way that makes sense and balances her

1.
E - small aoe heal
Ult- short valk with 2 rez charges/no aoe beams

2.
E- short valk no beams
Ult- 2 rez charges

3.
E- cast rez with the cooldown
Ult- shorter valk, heal beams, no self regen and 1 instant rez charge

4.
E- ???
Ult- shorter valk, heal beams, no self regen, 1 instant rez

Ana, Lucio, Moira, Zen all help with elims/damage and can somewhat defend themselves while still healing their team. (Mercy can fly away but that relies on your teammates to be in a good position. Mercy can use her pistol but it requires her to stop healing.)

That's why it's important for her rez to be useful. It makes up for what she can't contribute in the ways the other healers can.

Moira is way more op imo. Throw a heal orb on your team/yourself, kill the Tracer, Genji, heal your whole team with 2 seconds of hand click, throw another heal orb, kill Pharah and then teleport yourself to safety wherever you please.? End the game with gold elims, damage, healing and 0 deaths? What?

(I don't actually think she's OP... but compared to Mercy??)

We don't need to keep nerfing supports... Keep them all strong in their own ways.

It doesn't matter if Mercy has high healing numbers. I outheal every Mercy I've ever played with as Moira. The mercy is there and important so she can use her rezzes. If she has no rezzes then.. the other healers do everything she can but better.
02/12/2018 02:06 PMPosted by BenjaminWolf
02/12/2018 01:59 PMPosted by inplane
...
Then that's being a VERY shoddy developer. Devs are supposed to have good PR with their players. It's a recipe for a dying game by saying, "Shut up and enjoy what we put out for you because we know what's fun." Numerous games have died because of this mindset.

That's exactly what happened to Paragon because EPIC Games basically told their community to !@#$ off and relied on %^--kissers on the Paragon Subreddit to sustain their ego and revenue. Now, their game is announcing its closure this upcoming April. Only difference here is that Blizzard is ignoring a large portion of their playerbase instead of their entire playerbase.


Hopefully they don't ruin fortnite, basically shut down paragon because their was no saving it. Instead they are putting a lot if not all of their focus on fortnite... fortnite is a lot of fun.

It irks me when people say EPIC "Can't save Paragon" because it was never dying to begin with prior to Monolith. The game itself was fine. It simply needed tweaking and buttloads of optimization for it to feel better to play. It was in Open Beta, after all. Instead, they completely threw the game out in an attempt to attract the LoL and Overwatch crowd, failing spectacularly.
A LoS restriction on mass rez would have given it the pre-emptive counterplay non-Mercy players wanted so badly: cc/kill the Mercy as she flies in to rez.

Mercy 1.0 wouldn't have needed to hide during team fights, if she had an E ability that let her participate in them.

Her gun would be a lot more user-friendly if it had its own aim sensitivity slider (like how Ana/Widow have sepereate sliders for their scope).

You could get mobility on par with Valkyrie (if you're really good with Mercy) by:

1) keeping the GA momentum buff
2) providing a hybrid option for "Guardian Angel prefers beam target on/off"
3) tweaking Angelic Decent from a featherfall into a true glide
02/12/2018 12:18 PMPosted by Coulumbo
02/12/2018 12:06 PMPosted by Songstrider
...

Hurt the community? This is like blaming a *#!*#%!# victim because they got raped.


The people spamming for a Mercy revert are not victims. They are the offenders, trying to ruin everyone elses enjoyment of the game.

I hope that they find it within them to stop being so selfish and harmful.


People like you are the problem with this community.

I was about to attempt to start a discussion about this, but realized that you are either intentionally trolling Mercy players, intentionally trying to incite rage, or intentionally ignorant and that makes your attitude just plain not worth it.
02/12/2018 01:24 PMPosted by Coulumbo
We think the direction she's moving in is better for everyone -- Mercy mains and non-Mercy players.


Right, better. Maybe for all Gengu/Tracer mains, who are so pleased and they would love to remove Mercy totally from the game.

EDIT: lovely drops, btw.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2OAePo3G8eY/WnsMRh1_UYI/AAAAAAAABhI/spJWFvNUOGE2j2lZTmijHLrvkNXPUCkWwCLcBGAs/s1600/losers.png
02/12/2018 12:18 PMPosted by Coulumbo
02/12/2018 12:06 PMPosted by Songstrider
...

Hurt the community? This is like blaming a *#!*#%!# victim because they got raped.


The people spamming for a Mercy revert are not victims. They are the offenders, trying to ruin everyone elses enjoyment of the game.

I hope that they find it within them to stop being so selfish and harmful.


I mean, you're the one going around this thread, constantly posting negative comments and pretty much wanting us to shut up for good.

WYD?
Also... Valk balance and revert suggestions aside...

That 30 second rez needs to go. Or give it to Symmetra.
02/12/2018 12:54 PMPosted by AkiraNasuki
02/12/2018 12:47 PMPosted by reincarN8ed
Just wanted to say thanks, Blizzard, for effectively killing Mercy! Now I don't get !@#$%ed at for playing literally any other healer. /s

All the changes since adding Valk have been a downward spiral for this character. I know Jeff told us about the "balance triangle" or whatever, but it's apparent that they value their own opinions over community feedback and telemetry data. Hundreds if not thousands of pages of feedback on this forum alone, not to mention Reddit, most of it unread or unheeded.

To sum up the new Mercy changes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-xSyyeYcyI


This video is better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3ZA0CEip4k


I laughed really hard on this one, but I have to say it feels pretty accurate
Jeff here is my reason for a shorter Resurrect cooldown.

Mercy is a character that focuses on Healing and Damage Boosting her teammates in order to protect them. She sacrifices her DPS output for consistent healing. Whereas her support counterparts can DPS and Heal equally. In doing so she sacrifices her potential for kills, it's rare that Mercy will ever pull out her pistol because her healing output is much more viable then her DPS output. Mostly the pistol is used for small battles against flankers to help defend yourself. That is Mercy's "ability" for self defence, her other support counter parts have some sort of CC ability and damage, whereas Mercy only has damage, and a situational escape if you have teammates around.

So in other words Mercy doesn't contribute to killing like the rest of her support counterparts do. So she was given an ability "Resurrect" in order to contribute a revive to one of her teammates. Thinking of it this way it goes hand in hand with killing. Mercy revives a teammate whereas a DPS hero can kill an enemy.

This is how I think Mercy should work.

So enemies are able to do other things while still holding M1 correct? Mercy should be able to do the same. Enemies are able to move shoot use abilities crouch etc. etc. So Mercy should be able to heal/damage boost use GA like the rest of the Overwatch characters.

Theoretically it can take, 2-10 seconds to kill an enemy hero depending on the HP of the hero, what DPS you are playing and how well your aim is.

I agree with the cast time. That does make sense. However I dont agree with the locked animation, and the slow, and the long cooldown and how close you need to be to the dead ally.

So here is my proposal.

Mercy's Resurrect E ability
- Mercy's Resurrect gets changed to 10 seconds Cooldown.
- Mercy needs to get to a 5M range of the hero in order to start the Resurrection Channel
- There will be a glowing circle indicator around the target so Mercy can see the range she needs to stay in.
- The distance of the circle will grow to 10M-15M in size (DPS range)
- There is no height restriction as long as you are in the 10M-15M range. So you can still use GA effectively. Resurrect can only charge if the target is in Line of Sight (blockable by terrain)
- Mercy isn't locked into her Resurrect animation
- Healing/Damage Boosting speeds up the channel of Resurrect
- All you have to do then is adjust the damage boosted and healing done to other teammates that Mercy does during the cast time and correspond it with how many seconds it will take off the cast time on the target she is Resurrecting. ie. 100 health healed = 1 second taken off the cast time. etc.
- The Resurrection as soon as it reaches 100% completed will show the Resurrection animation and revive your teammate.
- It is shown as percent complete just like her Valkyrie/Old Mass Resurrect. It is shown above the E ability that will build up completion over time. It will also be shown to the player being Resurrected so they can also call out to protect Mercy during her Resurrect.
- It will take 2 seconds for a 200 HP hero, 4 seconds for a 400 HP hero and 6 seconds for a 600 HP hero, and I guess 2.5 seconds for a 250HP hero, 5 seconds for a 500HP hero.
- Moving out of the circle or out of LOS will halt the Resurrection, being cc'd will pause the Resurrection and being killed will end it.
- If the target revives before the cast time is finished the target will be able to leave spawn and walk back to the objective, if Mercy finishes the cast time after they have respawned the ally will be teleported to where they died bringing them back to the fight faster.
- Mercy has 10 seconds to complete the cast time, before it is refreshed again.

Valkyrie on the other hand is in a weird spot.
- It is a very weird ultimate and I think it would need to be changed in order to work with the above changes proposed for the Resurrect change.
- I think making it 10 seconds. But buffing the Healing and Damage boosting output to compensate for the decrease in her ultimate would be beneficial for the character. I would say double the healing power, and 45% damage boost. It will get rid of the Tempo Burst Resurrect problem she had before the nerf. But it will also become a strong ultimate to use offensively and defensively.
- It will also have an impact against other ultimates as well to help defend your team against attacks.
- It would also benefit the Resurrect because it will speed up the cast time due to the amount of extra healing you get from the ultimate.

These changes would help to make Mercy's gameplay more engaging and fun. It will take effort to pull a Resurrect off, just like how it takes effort to pull a kill off. I think that's why DPS dispise the ability because to them it feels effortless. Mercy players hate this itteration of Resurrect because it takes effort but it's very punishing to use. It will reward Mercy players for actively helping out during a fight and in return for supporting the team it will speed up the cast time of Resurrect, just like DPS will move around to better position themselves to do more damage on targets. It wont be a punishing ability to use, but it will take effort to use which is what everyone wants to see this ability to be. Not pulling off a Resurrect won't be as punishing if Mercy could do other things during the cast time, that's why her kit feels very disconnected and unfun. Having Resurrect work this way will put a higher skill ceiling to the character while still making the Resurrect counterable. It will go hand in hand with killing vs. Resurrecting, It will take time to Resurrect a higher health hero, and it will be faster to Resurrect a lower health hero just like it is when it comes to DPS, it's faster to kill a low health hero and it takes some time to kill a higher health hero.
02/12/2018 12:06 PMPosted by Songstrider
02/12/2018 12:02 PMPosted by Coulumbo
The whole #revertmercy thing has really hurt the Overwatch community.

I hope it goes away soon now that Jeff confirmed that it is not happening.
Hurt the community? This is like blaming a *#!*#%!# victim because they got raped.
You're comparing yourself and others to victims of such an extreme crime? And people upvoted your post about it? What the hell is wrong with you and those who agreed with your post? You're screwed up to actually believe you're comparable to such victims.
At this point, I'd prefer they just remove rez entirely and give mercy a new ult than leave her in the state she's in now. Part of the community thinks rez is balanced while another part thinks rezzing a player is overpowered, and if you try to give in to one side, the other side will say it's unfair. I loved playing mercy 1.0, and I'd honestly be happy if they gave us that back even without being invulnerable during rez, but it's clear that a good portion of the community thinks that is op. If they gave her a new ultimate and removed rez, they could at least give her a useful ult.
02/12/2018 07:07 AMPosted by Thorizzle
Mercy mains salty


You're right. How dare they be angry that their beloved Hero was nerfed into the ground. How dare they be sad she was changed so drastically because of the actions of a few people who abused her SR gain. And how dare they be tired of having to relearn a Hero over and over just because a few people -coughDPScough- couldn't be bothered to hunt her down at the start of a team push to make sure she didn't "undo" their precious "hard work", aka: Q PRESS.

You're right. Mercy mains salty af /s
A Genji main just admitted to me he wants a revert, unprompted I was just saying I refuse to play comp until they fix mercy and he said be wanted a revert. but only mercy players want that huh? lol
02/12/2018 03:27 PMPosted by Doodlebob
At this point, I'd prefer they just remove rez entirely and give mercy a new ult than leave her in the state she's in now. Part of the community thinks rez is balanced while another part thinks rezzing a player is overpowered, and if you try to give in to one side, the other side will say it's unfair. I loved playing mercy 1.0, and I'd honestly be happy if they gave us that back even without being invulnerable during rez, but it's clear that a good portion of the community thinks that is op. If they gave her a new ultimate and removed rez, they could at least give her a useful ult.


Honestly, then I wouldn't consider that character Mercy anymore. Resurrect is what makes Mercy unique, and removing it would destroy her as a character. If they remove Valkirie, I couldn't care less, but Resurrect shouldn't have been turned into an E ability. As an ultimate it worked, and statistics show that she wasn't op until her rework. That's where it should be. I know this current iteration is terrible, but there are things I wouldn't sacrifice, because then it wouldn't be the same character. In a nutshell. Resurrect as an ability? No, thanks. Remove it? No way. Resurrect as an ultimate? That's its place. Tweak it from there? Let's see.

About people saying that resurrecting people is overpowered... As an ability of course, despite actually it's awful to use. As an ultimate, I said it, check the statistics, she wasn't op at all. It felt powerful for everyone, but that's not the same thing, it didn't make her op.
➕[Mercy] Limited Valkyrie on cooldown, MultiRez as Ultimate
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20761717466
Mercy is probably going up get reworked again at some point. Where she's at right now is just a "placeholder".

Here's a merging of what a lot of Mercy mains said they wanted, and while balancing things so she doesn't have "two ultimates".

E: Limited Valkyrie: Only fast freeflight and fast Guardian Angel, on a 30 second cooldown

Q: Instant Rez: Possibly multi-rez, with line-of-sight required, and no invulnerability.
I love when b!tch@ss mods leave messages/ question before locking a thread. Really makes you think...
As a person who mains Mercy, I agree that during her ult, she was unbalanced compared to other healers; however, the ult had the ability to change the tide of the game. I would like if they could at least consider reworking it because as it is now, the ult has very little affect imo.

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