[Feedback Thread] Mercy Updates - Jan 30, 2018

General Discussion
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As a person who mains Mercy, I agree that during her ult, she was unbalanced compared to other healers; however, the ult had the ability to change the tide of the game. I would like if they could at least consider reworking it because as it is now, the ult has very little affect imo.
02/12/2018 03:02 AMPosted by Cleopatra
02/12/2018 02:56 AMPosted by Arceus
...

I'm downvoting you because the only reasons you have that suggest that the mercy rework was a success is her playstyle. Mercy is not the only hero that hides and gets rewarded for it. The only difference is that she is a support hero so that's considered weird and unfair. And please elaborate on her playstyle being "toxic".


Think it's "die on point, my ult is ready", which translated into normal language as "stay on point while you fight, so I can give you all a second chance if fight goes poor for us."

It's "toxic" as it requires to use your brain for once, instead of pure reflexes, to determine who saves their ultimates in case of mass resurrect. Hide & seek began, when it became clear that not a single player wants to save their ultimate, so only choice left is to kill Mercy, which also won't hide just behind next corner, when enemies are searching for her.

On topic of "hiding is not something supports should do": all supports hide if they can't heal all incoming damage.


Other supports wouldn’t need to hide as they have weapons that can do damage when necessary. On the other hand mercy’s weapon does next to no damage therefore she would need to hide more. Also what you said does not make her play style “toxic”. Search up the meaning of toxic. It has nothing to do with what you just said.
02/12/2018 01:00 PMPosted by SaidTheBear
res is bad for the game. remove it entirely, and give mercy other interesting utility.


So is the lack of physics for rip-tire, Junkrat main.
02/12/2018 01:24 PMPosted by Coulumbo
02/12/2018 01:15 PMPosted by Lullabeii
...Then they can radically change anything with no reason to validate it?
That's not a good design approach, just saying.


They provided several reasons in the developer update regarding the Mercy rework.

Jeff also made a post shortly after:

We think the direction she's moving in is better for everyone -- Mercy mains and non-Mercy players. Having a primary healer who was hiding under a bridge telling people to "die on the point" was not our idea of optimal. We think Valkyrie is a very engaging and dynamic ultimate and Mercy's role as a primary healer is very clear now. But resurrect is too powerful and needs to be toned down. We're not going to throw the baby out with the bath water on this one. We're iterating until she's in a good place. We appreciate your patience with us while we do that.

Whether or not you disagree with the OW teams reasons is up to you, but its not fair to say that they did the rework "with no reason".


The problem is her recent nerfs go against the main reasons for her rework.
02/12/2018 11:41 AMPosted by Arandmoor
02/12/2018 08:19 AMPosted by BubbleWrap
You have 3 hours total on Mercy, so I doubt you really took the time to sit down, digest her kit and analyze your gameplay


Dude...compared to you the developers haven't played their own game.

Should we have to play the game like it's a full time job before we post about character balance?


OBVIOUSLY. WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU DISCUSS CHARACTER BALANCE IF YOU HAVEN’T PLAYED THE GAME THOROUGHLY? My brain cells are receding atm.
02/12/2018 07:07 AMPosted by Thorizzle
Mercy mains salty

Your a mercy main rat.
02/11/2018 07:59 AMPosted by brownman6661
02/11/2018 07:29 AMPosted by xavvypls

It's time to bring Mercy back to her grassroots. It's time for her to be balanced again. True and fair balance. Move her E move back where it belongs, as an Ultimate, and work on balancing her from there.

It's time to revert. #RevertMercy


Rez should just be removed from the game. Buff valkrie to increase the healing/dps boost and she's exactly where she should be.

A low skill hero with uninterrupted healing and an on demand escape ability is already bad enough without giving her the ability to negate skillful play.


Skillful play in silver?
02/12/2018 05:28 PMPosted by Arceus
02/12/2018 01:24 PMPosted by Coulumbo
...

They provided several reasons in the developer update regarding the Mercy rework.

Jeff also made a post shortly after:

We think the direction she's moving in is better for everyone -- Mercy mains and non-Mercy players. Having a primary healer who was hiding under a bridge telling people to "die on the point" was not our idea of optimal. We think Valkyrie is a very engaging and dynamic ultimate and Mercy's role as a primary healer is very clear now. But resurrect is too powerful and needs to be toned down. We're not going to throw the baby out with the bath water on this one. We're iterating until she's in a good place. We appreciate your patience with us while we do that.

Whether or not you disagree with the OW teams reasons is up to you, but its not fair to say that they did the rework "with no reason".


The problem is her recent nerfs go against the main reasons for her rework.

That and Jeff hasn't really given any solid arguments as to why Team Resurrect was bad. "It's too powerful." How? When? Why did you decide that after the game has been released for a year? It hardly adds up.
02/12/2018 05:43 PMPosted by inplane

That and Jeff hasn't really given any solid arguments as to why Team Resurrect was bad. "It's too powerful." How? When? Why did you decide that after the game has been released for a year? It hardly adds up.

Rez through walls was pretty bad.

The counterplay was constantly being vigilant for an enemy you can't even see.
02/12/2018 11:41 AMPosted by Arandmoor
02/12/2018 08:19 AMPosted by BubbleWrap
You have 3 hours total on Mercy, so I doubt you really took the time to sit down, digest her kit and analyze your gameplay


Dude...compared to you the developers haven't played their own game.

Should we have to play the game like it's a full time job before we post about character balance?
I don't think you understand how much the developers play over how many accounts, literally every day

It's almost as if there are people who do it for a full time job...
her ults garbage, i think most mercy mains can agree on it now.
shouldn't it say something to @BLIZZARD that you ruined mercy so bad that lots of us began to wish you would just take away rez and stop destroying her. at this point we would literally rather you took away a key part of her kit, that's how frustrated we are :(
02/12/2018 01:24 PMPosted by Coulumbo
They provided several reasons in the developer update regarding the Mercy rework.

Jeff also made a post shortly after:

We think the direction she's moving in is better for everyone -- Mercy mains and non-Mercy players. Having a primary healer who was hiding under a bridge telling people to "die on the point" was not our idea of optimal. We think Valkyrie is a very engaging and dynamic ultimate and Mercy's role as a primary healer is very clear now. But resurrect is too powerful and needs to be toned down. We're not going to throw the baby out with the bath water on this one. We're iterating until she's in a good place. We appreciate your patience with us while we do that.
The reasons be put forward were flawed, and "die on the point" wasn't an effective strategy. It was used to abuse SR gain. Seriously, why does EVERYBODY think that Mercy would tell her team to die on the point, essentially wasting her Ultimate (does a team fight 5v6 with one team having a healer and the other not sound fair)? Mercy having Rez allowed her team to be aggressive, not stupid.
02/12/2018 06:23 PMPosted by BubbleWrap
02/12/2018 01:24 PMPosted by Coulumbo
They provided several reasons in the developer update regarding the Mercy rework.

Jeff also made a post shortly after:

We think the direction she's moving in is better for everyone -- Mercy mains and non-Mercy players. Having a primary healer who was hiding under a bridge telling people to "die on the point" was not our idea of optimal. We think Valkyrie is a very engaging and dynamic ultimate and Mercy's role as a primary healer is very clear now. But resurrect is too powerful and needs to be toned down. We're not going to throw the baby out with the bath water on this one. We're iterating until she's in a good place. We appreciate your patience with us while we do that.
The reasons be put forward were flawed, and "die on the point" wasn't an effective strategy. It was used to abuse SR gain. Seriously, why does EVERYBODY think that Mercy would tell her team to die on the point, essentially wasting her Ultimate (does a team fight 5v6 with one team having a healer and the other not sound fair)? Mercy having Rez allowed her team to be aggressive, not stupid.
If I told my team to die on point, it was IF they were to die, do so on the point so I can get the maximum benefit out of my rez, and get more people back in the fight. It also encouraged my teammates to take risks to hold the point just a bit longer even if it meant they’d die because I was coming in with my rez. Honestly, (before the nerfs) I did this with Valkyrie too. Letting my team know it was up so we could hold it just a bit more or to not give up. It definitely worked.
02/12/2018 07:05 PMPosted by WildElements
If I told my team to die on point, it was IF they were to die, do so on the point so I can get the maximum benefit out of my rez, and get more people back in the fight. It also encouraged my teammates to take risks to hold the point just a bit longer even if it meant they’d die because I was coming in with my rez. Honestly, (before the nerfs) I did this with Valkyrie too. Letting my team know it was up so we could hold it just a bit more or to not give up. It definitely worked.
Yes! The point being, it wasn't "hey, die on point.", it was "Hey, I have Resurrect, so be aggressive / make your stand. It'll be okay."
02/12/2018 07:08 PMPosted by BubbleWrap
02/12/2018 07:05 PMPosted by WildElements
If I told my team to die on point, it was IF they were to die, do so on the point so I can get the maximum benefit out of my rez, and get more people back in the fight. It also encouraged my teammates to take risks to hold the point just a bit longer even if it meant they’d die because I was coming in with my rez. Honestly, (before the nerfs) I did this with Valkyrie too. Letting my team know it was up so we could hold it just a bit more or to not give up. It definitely worked.
Yes! The point being, it wasn't "hey, die on point.", it was "Hey, I have Resurrect, so be aggressive / make your stand. It'll be okay."
I don’t understand how that was ever misconstrued because no one I ever played with was vocal about hating it. And I knew what it meant when the Mercy on my team said it in chat or spammed their ult indicator.
02/12/2018 02:07 PMPosted by Lithy
02/12/2018 01:25 PMPosted by BenjaminWolf
[I really don't understand the downvote... is it because I said the developers should listen to the community as a whole and not just the professional players, professional player opinions shouldn't be the only opinion that matter.]


I know who downvoted you and why, but I don't want to tell you because it would be probably some kind of toxicity. I'll say simply that there are people who don't want any type of dialogue, if they don't like what are you defending, they don't read, they downvote you and ignore your entire post. Sad, but true.

P.S.: Obviously, I didn't downvote you.


Well I appreciate the comment, the video basically states that the pros should have an opinion, but it shouldn't be the only opinion that matters to the developers. It has to be fun across the board for everybody. If they want to add variety to the e-sport scene add a ban system, each team can choose certain characters to ban. The developers have to think about the ninety nine percent of the player base, they can't just cater to the one percent.
02/12/2018 07:15 PMPosted by BenjaminWolf
The developers have to think about the ninety nine percent of the player base, they can't just cater to the one percent.


They listen to the community, their own instincts, and statistics.
02/11/2018 03:42 PMPosted by Roseblite
EXACTLY, we USED to be able to do it. Rez using "E" because it was instant, not almost 2 seconds of sniper bait. Every DPS main or Tank main complained about "Hide and Rez", which MOST of us did not do in the first place. With the HARD Nerf, the only time you CAN Rez someone is IF you "Hide and Rez". Difference now is you rez 1 person AWAY from the fight where 1.0 you Rezed max of 5 or even original Rework you could Rez on the point/payload and get 1 to 2 people and get away. You missed the point entirely.


Yeah no, this is how I feel it should be used. If its instant there's no way for a sniper or anyone else to punish the Mercy for trying to rez at a bad time. In your eyes the Mercy being able to instant rez is ok because you want the old Rez's capabilities. News flash, being able to instant Rez is too powerful of an ability in this game. There's a reason why any other game with a rez mechanic has the Rezzer sit still next to the Rezzee for several seconds, since getting a +1 for your cause is super powerful. This is probably why Rez wasn't instant back in beta, since after over a year of data and outcry, they finally realized that bandaid fix for Mercy wasn't a good idea. I think you're also missing a point and that's killing someone to prevent their usefulness is only one layer of countering. Most people in this game have another 2 layers over that to prevent their full usefulness. Instant Rez only has kill the Mercy to prevent it, and that's not enough for how powerful the move is.

02/11/2018 04:36 PMPosted by Roseblite
Here's an idea, IMAGINE if we took your favorite Hero (DPS, Tanks, Support {including Symmetra}) and Nerfed them as hard as Mercy has been Nerfed. Would anyone want to play any of those heroes?
Nope, not fun, I don't do any damage, everyone is killing me before I can do anything, etc. etc. etc.


Also yeah, I'm playing a bunch of doomfist now even though his kit is bugged to heck and back, so take that!

02/11/2018 04:59 PMPosted by inplane
The problem is there isn't a single basic ability that punishes its user for using it out in the open. And for a good reason. The closest ability that fit that description would be Reaper's Shadow Step, but even that can be useful for escapes sometimes. Basic abilities are supposed to be at your disposal and usable in almost every situation with little issues. Resurrect having to be reduced to a sluggish mess shows how it should be a situational ultimate with a bigger impact for a bigger cost.


Swiftstriking into a Reincharge! JumpJeting into a self-destruct, or a Deadeye's Los! Mercy flying to a teammate being chased by 3 enemies! Charging a Rocket Punch out in the open without cover! Throwing a translocator into the direct line of sight of the enemy and then teleporting to it a second later! Using literally any projectile based damage ability in front of a genji deflecting, near or medium range! Deflecting in front of a Winston, Zarya, Moira, or Symmetra without swift strike available. Reinhardt doing anything but holding his shield up when engaging with the enemy team. Symmetra putting down turrets in the open! Torbjorn building a turret out in the open! Recalling into danger as tracer! Wraith Booping someone into safety! Mccree, Soldier, Junkrat, Pharah, or Reaper using their ult without cover or surprise positioning!

Heck I'm sure there are some that I'm missing, but yes, people can be punished for using even abilities at the wrong time.
02/11/2018 05:29 PMPosted by Lithy

Your post is a bit hard to understand. Undoing Rez with an ultimate is a very brute force method, and keeping it from happening doesn't solve the problem for long enough with how much of an impact it can have. If there was a way to stop her as she was in the cast time, then yeah I wouldn't be having this arguement.


It was the best way to counter it and there are videos on youtube that prove it. Resurrect was an ultimate that countered ultimates and it had effect after that ultimates has had its own effects. However, you could undo the Resurrect as well with another ultimate, countering it, just the same mechanic. That's why old rez encouraged smart play (not talking about hide and rez exploit, I'm talking about engaging Mercy, the average one), if you were able to bait the rez and economize your ultimates, you could counter it. The point is that Resurrect hadn't a specific counter like Symmetra, who is destroyed by Winston, or Zen's ult, which can be denied by Ana's grenade. In this case, the counter relied on your own skill and game sense, it wasn't so obvious as others, you had to create it with your skill.


02/11/2018 02:22 PMPosted by Alexaction
https://youtu.be/oq_SLeMWWEA?t=156

Seriously tho, this is a lot of coordination to deal with just a 2 man rez.


My case still stands, its too much coordination to deal with just a duo rez, No other support ult preemptively got that much ult usage to occur back then. Also Mercy's isn't exempt from being countered in the ways that Zen and Sym and every other hero in the game can be countered. If she was nothing without instant Rez than she should've never had instant Rez.
02/12/2018 07:22 PMPosted by Alexaction
02/12/2018 07:15 PMPosted by BenjaminWolf
The developers have to think about the ninety nine percent of the player base, they can't just cater to the one percent.


They listen to the community, their own instincts, and statistics.


I believe that stats show she has a low pick rate and a low win rate.

Her Ult has to be worst in game now? Orisa damage Ult higher %, and Orisa still active in the fight with her now very good gatling gun.

She's been massively over nerfed due to owl. 5 nerfs was a bit much. Maybe 3 of the 5 would have been enough?

Fly speed, duration, rez speed, rez numbers, no rez recharge.

Will she get picked at all in OWL? Maybe.

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