Why does everyone hate scatter arrow...

General Discussion
You know having a visual tell and cast time, might make scattershot more palatable to die to.
I honestly don't care what it gives Hanzo. I really don't. If Hanzo needs improvements, then give them to him. Scatter arrow, is bull crap. There are two things in Overwatch that immediately make me stop having fun, and those are scatter arrow and rocket punch. Immediately takes me out of the fun zone and makes me frustrated with playing the game. Indefensible.
01/28/2018 07:50 PMPosted by OliverBurke
Because it's the only thing that gives Hanzo a modicum of consistency.


You say that like you can do anything about his consistency. You can't without changing his concept - a projectile hero, an archer.
01/28/2018 07:52 PMPosted by DJGames
01/28/2018 07:49 PMPosted by Eragon
...when it's the only thing that gives Hanzo a modicum of consistency?


If you need a cheap ability that reliably kills an enemy then your primary fire, that's a problem
boy must suck to be hog, rat, bastion because turret is a move. Torb turret, genji dash. Many heroes kill with abilites. God forbid honzo (a char that the community !@#$s on for being weak) has a move that can kill someone with a WELL placed shot. I don't get why people want to nerf a low pick low tier hero.
I don't see why people are whining so intensely in terms of consistency.

It's aiming. I can kill someone faster with Soldier: 76 just firing a rocket and holding right trigger, or by charging Zenyatta's regular attack at people with a discord. Don't blame a hero's kit if you just so happen to meet people who suddenly can't get their hits in because they're deprived of automatic/repetitive firing and put into a role where aim is more important.

Scatter Arrow has the unique capacity to ricochet and punish people with poor positioning. I have no issues playing the character and can comfortably choose him over the usual hero picks, and I assure you that Scatter Arrow isn't the bulk of my eliminations.
01/28/2018 07:49 PMPosted by Eragon
...when it's the only thing that gives Hanzo a modicum of consistency?

You said it yourself...if a hero relies on 1 single skill that isn't healthy...
That is a major issue to his health.

Equivalent would be if poisoned by widows mine then all her shots at you become headshots. (It would be an unfair skill that makes her skill less important)
01/28/2018 08:46 PMPosted by Buttercult
I honestly don't care what it gives Hanzo. I really don't. If Hanzo needs improvements, then give them to him. Scatter arrow, is bull crap. There are two things in Overwatch that immediately make me stop having fun, and those are scatter arrow and rocket punch. Immediately takes me out of the fun zone and makes me frustrated with playing the game. Indefensible.


It's called "moving", especially when a guy with a bow aims at you or something that may ricochet and hit you. If he misses, his ability goes straight to waste and you've got a clear opportunity to start shooting back.

His kit isn't unbalanced; he's a character who isn't picked often and people can't seem to deal with competently as a result.
01/28/2018 08:45 PMPosted by Crypticarts
You know having a visual tell and cast time, might make scattershot more palatable to die to.


He's a sniper. It's like requesting snipers notify you before they try to deliver a killing shot. If a sniper's on the enemy team, people should be wary of their shots rather than requesting an easier time to deal with them.
It's a 20 second CD killing a tank in one shot. That's not good design from the start. If someone picks a tank, they expect that the person killing them in one shot, had to either trade an ult or do a really good job at timing and placement of an ability that can displace them. Then there is just how it looks, which makes it even worse. Really well placed shot on the crit box, nope, just shot you in the feet.

I don't know if getting rid of it will result in Hanzo getting the redesign he needs, but keeping it is going to make it very unlikely for Hanzo to get the adjustments he needs to be a viable character. A broken, non-ult ability that can one-shot a tank, just means every other ability will be kept in garbage tier for the sake of balance.
01/28/2018 07:49 PMPosted by Eragon
...when it's the only thing that gives Hanzo a modicum of consistency?


Because I for example got seleted by Hanzobyesterday as Roadhog with 350HP and I was about to heal myself because I saw it coming but scatter just deleted me. I was killing it. I literally just had hooked a Pharah out if the sky, gone. Perfect midrange head hit to mercy, gone, destroy Genji, hook moira, gone. Hanzo wallclimbs and randomly scatters, misses me by around 3-5m and kills me: enemy takes the point: in what world is such a mechanic fair? You do realise even roadhog couldn't delete 350hp when his hook was OP?
And surley not by missing by 3-5m.

I love Hanzo, but hiving him consistency with a broken mechanic is definitely NOT the right way.

I can't wait for his rework, not only because I hate scatter as a tank/support main and tracer player, but also because I would love to play Hanzo actually. But he's !@#$e. He's only played for recon and scatter... at least on console.

His arrows need a LOT more speed, his shot should also charge faster, to make it more fair, the hitbox should be reduced however, he should not be able to shoot someone behind a wall just because of the enormous hitbox that follows. Delete Scatter for another ability, with real consistency.

I like the idea of the freeze/explosive shot on the forums.

Scatter Arrow has the unique capacity to ricochet and punish people with poor positioning


Except it doesn't? I remember that argument being used by flanking Hogs, who hooked the healers from the back lines by being in the back lines.
Scatter arrow gets you while going back to your team from spawn, randomly when fired into your team when it has grouped up and from super far away. It's okay to put out damage, but killing someone with one shot cause he was trying to get back to his team doesn't sound like "bad positioning" to me
One shots tanks. One shots everyone else too. It ruins the game too if he takes out a support when he shouldn't have. It why most people save Scatter Arrow has no skill and it a 450 damage ability. The strongest ability in the game and all Hanzo mains shoot it at the feet. If you see Hanzo looking/Aiming at the ground. It's a Scatter Arrow coming which some characters can avoid if the time/bait it out. Then Hanzo becomes a free kill unless the player is a head shooter pro.

At least people like Widowmaker has skill.
01/28/2018 08:01 PMPosted by TophsMyGophs
like how we respect McCree, don't get to close or you will get flashbanged.
Scatter Arrow does not care about how close or far you are... it is equally insanely powered at ALL distances, and is broken as an ability.

And the fact that Hanzo's ENTIRE existence revolves around Scatter Arrow, it is proof enough that the hero is broken by design and needs a complete rework from the ground up. We could keep the scanner arrow, but everything in his kit, including his basic attack need to be reworked to reward skill and minimize luck-based kills.

He is categorized as a sniper, and as such, his kit should reflect that, as should his abilities.

Here are some ideas of mine on how to maybe change him for the better, especially since this is a hot topic for discussion with Jeff and the dev team:

  • Basic Attack
    - Remove infinite arrows and give him limited arrows and needing to recharge his quiver.
    - Tweak his basic damage per arrow to compensate; for a fully charged shot, give the arrow 200 damage upon head shot, 100 damage per body shot. Armor and shields will reduce the damage as required.
    - Break the damage output into 3 "buckets":
      1) A fully charged shot for 100 dmg (200 headshot) after charging for 2 seconds
      2) A partially charged shot for 80 dmg (160 headshot) after charging for 1 second
      3) A non-charged shot for 50 dmg (100 headshot) and no cooldown between successive shots, similar to how it works for "spamzo" atm.

  • Scatter Arrow Rework

    - Option 1 (Scatter Arrow 2.0) :

    Scatter Arrow only "scatters" when it hits the first surface, and is meant to do damage to multiple targets, rather than to hit a single one as it is currently designed.
    So, Hanzo shoots Scatter Arrow, it flies from his bow as a Single Arrow, no matter the distance to the target and does single target damage if it hits a hero's hitbox. Otherwise, any other surface it hits causes it to split into 3 arrows that will bounce of walls and floors or ceilings like the current one, but the damage is now split.

    Damage on single target hit will be a guaranteed 180 damage whether it is a body or headshot. When split, each of the 3 arrows that split off will deal 60 damage each, but have a chance to randomly hit a headshot for 120 damage.

    This design rewards accurate Hanzo's and it does not feel like complete unfairness on the receiving end of it.

    - Option 2 (Multishot):

    Scatter Arrow reworked into a different ability altogether and called "Multishot".

    As the name suggests, instead of the Arrow "scattering" like it does at the moment, the ability shoots 4 arrows that are pre-split upon leaving the bow and travel in a wider cone than the current Scatter Arrow design.

    Each arrow can do (maybe) 80 damage each (and the chance for 160 damage on headshot). The cone angle could such that at closest range, only 2 arrows can guarantee hits on a large enough target (like the large tanks), and that means 160 guaranteed damage on body shots (80 x 2), and 320 guaranteed damage on headshots if the 2 arrows connect with the headshot hitbox of the tank (like D. Va or Roadhog or Orisa).

    Again, this rewards Hanzos with accurate headshot aim, and still allows targets some leeway to escape damage with defensive abilities.

    This method ensures that damage drop-off is not an issue and it naturally means that closer targets can get damaged more easily, while further away shots need more precision, but give both sides a way to get a fair feeling out of it.

    - Option 3 (Explosive Arrow) :

    As the name suggests here, Scatter Arrow is removed and is replaced by "Explosive Arrow".

    This new ability basically gives Hanzo the ability to do splash damage in an area, and deal more damage to single and multiple targets alike.

    As the Explosive Arrow leaves the bow, it will split apart in a similar cone angle to the current Scatter Arrow and plant each of itself onto any surface it first meets, then detonate with mini explosions that do guaranteed damage in a small spherical area around the tip of the arrows.

    There is no drop off damage since arrow hits themselves don't do any damage (or maybe they could something minimal) and the explosions deal 100 damage each. if a target is close enough (say around midrange), 2 of the arrows could detonate close enough and deal 200 damage to it, and if it close, all 3 could stick on and deal 300 damage in that small area. if teammates are stuck close too to each other, multiple kills are possible.

    There is no headshot damage with this ability because the splash damage makes up for it, and while it can give more credence to "spamzo"s, it is still an ability whose cooldown can be tweaked around for a fairer balance.

    This option is a little more on the luck side, but still rewards careful aim, and gives time to targets to escape lethal damage. I am not too fond of this idea aside from the mechanics or notion of explosions on arrowheads, but it's something maybe worth exploring and changing around to be more effective, yet still much fairer than the current broken design.
  • Sonic Arrow 2.0:

    While Sonic Arrow is in a good place, I think we could still brainstorm some ideas on making it even better, or just be more fun.

    My proposition is to make Sonic Arrow a multidimensional tool for Hanzo in terms of scouting.

    When using Sonic Arrow, allow it to be "activated" by pressing the Sonic Arrow button again mid-flight before hitting any surface, but give it a shorter duration when that happens and bigger scanning radius. This gives Hanzo more intel on enemy positions, but less reaction time.

    On the enemy's side, whenever Sonic Arrow is "activated", they could see a visual indicator where the activation happened - it won't make a big difference for positioning, or getting out of its now bigger scan range, but it will at least forewarn for any incoming damage, but the caveat is that the enemy has to be looking in that direction to see the indicator.

    Auditory cues could be included as well, such as a sonar-like "ping".

    Sonic Arrow without pre-activation would still be the best stealth scout option, however.

    Again, this is just a more fun way to deepen Hanzo's kit, but it is absolutely not a necessity, imho.
  • Well, these were my own thoughts on Hanzo's kit and how we could change it for the better so that it is both fair for the people on the receiving end, and fun for the Hanzo players.

    Thanks for reading!
    He is a sniper, snipers shouldn't be consistent unless they are incredibly skilled.
    01/29/2018 01:26 AMPosted by Magypsy
    He is a sniper, snipers shouldn't be consistent unless they are incredibly skilled.


    This, Hanzo only has skill if he sniping and headshots land even with his sonic arrow. Body shots are also fine but a Hanzo he can one shot someone without even aiming at them (even if it was random) he can still kill 1 or two people instantly.
    01/28/2018 07:49 PMPosted by Eragon
    ...when it's the only thing that gives Hanzo a modicum of consistency?


    No one likes being one-shoted when playing hero which shouldnt be one-shoted...

    I hope you understand xd
    Wait, I thought scatter arrow wasn't consistent and the majority of them don't hit anything? What is it?
    01/28/2018 07:49 PMPosted by Eragon
    ...when it's the only thing that gives Hanzo a modicum of consistency?
    becausd it should not one shot a tank.

    Jeff is going to fix it with whatever he thinks is effective I think he should have strong abilities but not a one shot
    01/29/2018 02:42 AMPosted by CuddlyFlower
    Wait, I thought scatter arrow wasn't consistent and the majority of them don't hit anything? What is it?


    Simple, it's an awful experience for the same reason that ret was an awful experience in TBC PvP. Sure you could explode someone instantly if the stars aligned, but more often than not you were a free honor kill. That handful of times you did delete someone, didn't make the experience worthwhile, if anything it just made it worse because you got those through luck. It sucked for people on the receiving end because the gods of RNG decided it was their time to die to a lackluster spec in PvP, in a way that wasn't easy to counter.
    01/28/2018 07:51 PMPosted by AlBobo
    400-0 with a single ability iz not fun.


    Especially when that ability requires little skill to utilize, has no impacting wind up, no appreciable visible indicators, no audible indicators, an indefinite hold time, and really basically no other “check” against its power short of a requirement for LoS.

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