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02/07/2018 05:33 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
Let's be clear here and not confuse policy:

One Tricking is not bannable and should not be reported (it even says so in the text)

Throwing is bannable and should be reported. We appreciate your help here.

False reporting is bannable. Don't misuse the report system.


BULL. I got banned for one tricking. TWICE. After I got banned the first time I made a point to myself to record ALL my games since then, got banned a second time. Tried contacting support/forums. But nada. The support system just put the ticket on "Resolved" without any discussions. Threads made on the forum are just deleted and the users forum banned...

Played a total of 321hours on Torb. Managed a %63 winrate on him... Still ban, ban and ban. BULL system.

ALL LIES.

At this point im thinking of just uninstalling this game. More rewarding playing CSGO anyways.
If all backseatgamers would redirect their overflowing energy from backseatgaming others towards themselves, they all would be higher in their rankings. A heropick is just one of many decisions a player has to make. Singling out this single decision as reason to commit to or forfeit a game, is just stupid, begging my pardon. Not taking into account personal traits, skills, experience and so on...
I bet whoever made this post was not expecting Jeff to answer as quikly as he did, or expect him to answer at all;)
02/07/2018 05:33 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
Let's be clear here and not confuse policy:

One Tricking is not bannable and should not be reported (it even says so in the text)

Throwing is bannable and should be reported. We appreciate your help here.

False reporting is bannable. Don't misuse the report system.


How about groups mass reporting anyone and everyone for little or no reason, resulting in automated bannings that get attributed to playing one character on a consistent basis?
Ah yes the good old "soft throw" excuse. It's really amazing to see people grasping at straws in an attempt to justify their own behaviour.

No one can prove "soft throwing" so why should you be allowed to get someone banned just because you maybe sort've think they are throwing. I can't wait for the next time you have a bad day and make mistakes in a match. I wonder how many people will report you just in case you are throwing.

Hey, it's better for 10 innocent people to get banned rather than let 1 guilty person go free, right?
02/07/2018 05:33 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
One Tricking is not bannable and should not be reported (it even says so in the text)

Throwing is bannable and should be reported. We appreciate your help here.


But... one-tricking is throwing. So therfor one-tricking is bannable. Refusing to play as a team, sticking to one hero that clearly isn't working (which is toxic behavior), on top of isolating your pool to a single hero in a competitive game where the primary FUNCTION of the game is the ability to switch characters?

Yeah totally not bannable, give me a break. You even said it yourself, this is a game about SWITCHING heroes. This is why heroes are not locked in at the start, or in queue. Going into competitive and pretending like you are locked in, is throwing.
02/07/2018 06:38 PMPosted by Winks
02/07/2018 05:33 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
One Tricking is not bannable and should not be reported (it even says so in the text)

Throwing is bannable and should be reported. We appreciate your help here.

There's a problem here though. You have people one tricking unpopular heros, like Symmetra, and then 'soft throwing' games when they get on teams with certain people, pretending to try, but ultimately just concealing their throw. Fake Emongg was a great example. There's at least one other I know of in GM that does it, but I haven't seen him in a bit maybe he was also fake Emongg? This guy ruined HUNDREDS of games, literally hundreds if not more. I'm sure his defense to avoid bans was that he's just playing sym and people are salty about it.

Have you developed a way to deal with these sorts of situations going forward?


Soft throwing doesnt exist. Either you throw, or you dont. Is someone intentionally trying to lose the game? Yes? Then its a thrower. No? Then its just a normal player. But he plays a suboptimal hero? Not a throw.
02/07/2018 06:49 PMPosted by par1ty
Ah yes the good old "soft throw" excuse. It's really amazing to see people grasping at straws in an attempt to justify their own behaviour.

No one can prove "soft throwing" so why should you be allowed to get someone banned just because you maybe sort've think they are throwing. I can't wait for the next time you have a bad day and make mistakes in a match. I wonder how many people will report you just in case you are throwing.

All soft throwing means is that you're making an effort to make it look like you're trying to win when you're actually trying to lose. Fake Emongg ruined hundreds and hundreds of games over multiple accounts by soft throwing when he got on teams with certain streamers or pro players. It's very difficult to ID it because you can't just gather it from game stats. That means when you figure out someone is doing that you have to come down hard on them because of how difficult it is to detect in the first place.
02/07/2018 06:52 PMPosted by Deykar
Soft throwing doesnt exist.

Call it whatever you want, but there are players out there making a bigger effort to pretend that they're playing the game while throwing than it would take to just play the game. A very high profile one just got permabanned. There are others out there that deserve the same fate.
02/07/2018 06:35 PMPosted by Nibelung
02/07/2018 06:21 PMPosted by iPatrick
...
It is true and can be working as well... in bronze to gold. In higher ranks teams with 6 dps against a good composition is pretty much screwed.


Chro is there to prove you wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyA7rnblERQ


- "Enemy Team is at the choke, soon they'll be on our Point"
- "Just focus their supports, the rest of them will die to our forces without any healing"
-"B-b-but they have no ...supports"
-"...Fine, focus their Tanks instead"
-"..... Mein Führer.... they have no tanks..."

*Takes off glasses*
02/07/2018 06:50 PMPosted by DuoVandal
But... one-tricking is throwing. So therfor one-tricking is bannable


https://youtu.be/_rMsgmaBV8g?t=1m21s

Pretty much the line of logic here.
02/07/2018 06:52 PMPosted by Deykar
02/07/2018 06:38 PMPosted by Winks
...
There's a problem here though. You have people one tricking unpopular heros, like Symmetra, and then 'soft throwing' games when they get on teams with certain people, pretending to try, but ultimately just concealing their throw. Fake Emongg was a great example. There's at least one other I know of in GM that does it, but I haven't seen him in a bit maybe he was also fake Emongg? This guy ruined HUNDREDS of games, literally hundreds if not more. I'm sure his defense to avoid bans was that he's just playing sym and people are salty about it.

Have you developed a way to deal with these sorts of situations going forward?


Soft throwing doesnt exist. Either you throw, or you dont. Is someone intentionally trying to lose the game? Yes? Then its a thrower. No? Then its just a normal player. But he plays a suboptimal hero? Not a throw.

Answer me to one question: What do you think, why literally no one picks Symmetra in OWL? It's a competitive league, why don't we see Symmetras? Let me answer it first: because of the word you just said: 'suboptimal'. She is currently super weak and needs buffs, but until than, why would a competitive team in a competitive mode pick a suboptimal hero to lower their chances to win? In a competitive mode teams want to higher their chances not lower it. Similar example is Mercy on the other hand. She was super strong so every team was picking her all the time. A lot of them don't even like the hero but she has to be picked in order to higher their chances to win. This is a serious difference between quickplay and competitive.
02/07/2018 06:38 PMPosted by Winks
There's a problem here though. You have people one tricking unpopular heros, like Symmetra, and then 'soft throwing' games when they get on teams with certain people, pretending to try, but ultimately just concealing their throw.


That is not "soft throwing". There is no thing as soft throwing because by definition, throwing is playing without the intention to win.

If you are playing with the intention to win, you can't be throwing. You can be performing badly, and that is not bannable, according to the explanation in the griefing report screen.
02/07/2018 05:46 PMPosted by dafinsrock
02/07/2018 05:33 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
Let's be clear here and not confuse policy:

One Tricking is not bannable and should not be reported (it even says so in the text)

Throwing is bannable and should be reported. We appreciate your help here.

False reporting is bannable. Don't misuse the report system.


One tricking sym and playing her on attack is throwing


Not according to the big boss Jeff. So why don't you cut the crap and just try to win instead of playing the blame game?

You impress me Mr. Kaplan, I did not think you would officially put the foot down about this. I truly appreciate your honesty here.
02/07/2018 05:33 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
Let's be clear here and not confuse policy:

One Tricking is not bannable and should not be reported (it even says so in the text)

Throwing is bannable and should be reported. We appreciate your help here.

False reporting is bannable. Don't misuse the report system.


So if a Sym is feeding the enemy team, I can report them for throwing/trolling and not their hero pick?
02/07/2018 06:59 PMPosted by iPatrick
02/07/2018 06:52 PMPosted by Deykar
...

Soft throwing doesnt exist. Either you throw, or you dont. Is someone intentionally trying to lose the game? Yes? Then its a thrower. No? Then its just a normal player. But he plays a suboptimal hero? Not a throw.

Answer me to one question: What do you think, why literally no one picks Symmetra in OWL? It's a competitive league, why don't we see Symmetras? Let me answer it first: because of the word you just said: 'suboptimal'. She is currently super weak and needs buffs, but until than, why would a competitive team in a competitive mode pick a suboptimal hero to lower their chances to win? In a competitive mode teams want to higher their chances not lower it. Similar example is Mercy on the other hand. She was super strong so every team was picking her all the time. A lot of them don't even like the hero but she has to be picked in order to higher their chances to win. This is a serious difference between quickplay and competitive.


Because there will always be a meta comp and everything diverting from meta will be considered suboptimal. Do you want everyone trying something different declared a thrower? Pros dont want to risk anything, because they get payed for this. We common folks can afford to try different strats, because we dont have the team coordination and skill to make the most out of every hero, so meta doesnt really matter to us anyway.
02/07/2018 05:33 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
Let's be clear here and not confuse policy:

One Tricking is not bannable and should not be reported (it even says so in the text)

Throwing is bannable and should be reported. We appreciate your help here.

False reporting is bannable. Don't misuse the report system.


Better send this to your customer support, cause people report different feedback from them
02/07/2018 06:59 PMPosted by iPatrick
Answer me to one question: What do you think, why literally no one picks Symmetra in OWL?


As a Symmetra player, that is very easy to answer.

Symmetra do not perform well in a high-speed setting against a coordinated team. It just happens that the pro-scene is the epitome of those two things.

The more chaotic the ambient, more relevant Symmetra becames. And in competitive ladder, most often than not, the teams are not used to play with each other, and are not working together in synchrony. That's why she is perfectly fine to be played in ladder.
Noone in a game has the exact same commitment as the others. Most people who play Overwatch are not even sportsman or sportswomen in its real meaning.

So where do you draw the line between “trying to win“ and degrees of “soft throwing“? Most people might just be discouraged easily, because they are not cut out to clutch it out. Are those throwing or are those just weaker mentally?

Not accounting for the sheer impossibility to proof anything of that.

Overwatch is an inclusive game. Therefore the rules are as it stands.
You can try to be as clear as you can Jeff, but because of your games ruleset, it ends up being confusing and contradicting no matter what.

How do you determine what is throwing? Is playing an offense symmetra throwing? Because it certainly reduces the odds of your team winning by not switching heroes depending on maps/modes and circumstances. And how does OTPing encourage team play exactly? In a team game where you are meant to change heroes depending on situation and working together. One tricking goes against all that and is just selfish. If you want to go that route, why not just make hero switching not possible in the first place? And just make it a draft based game. I dont get it...

Its like you just hope for a miracle to happen and this issue to go away by itself, meanwhile many of us have to suffer from one tricks.

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