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02/07/2018 07:01 PMPosted by Nibelung
That is not "soft throwing". There is no thing as soft throwing because by definition, throwing is playing without the intention to win.

Arguing semantics gets us nowhere fast. You know what people say when they say someone is 'hard throwing' (jumping off the map/afking) vs 'soft throwing' (pretending to play, but really throwing) and it's way easier to just say that then having to explain what kind of throwing someone, like the fake Emongg, dude is doing.
02/07/2018 07:18 PMPosted by Ƙąmų
How do you determine what is throwing?


Intention.

Someone specifically said "f this game" then switch to someone they never played much before? That is throwing.

Someone picked Bastion without a tank to shield him? That is not throwing.

Someone is continuously jumping into a pit as soon as they leave spawn? That is throwing.

Someone picked Soldier 76 and never used his biotic field? That is not throwing.

Someone is running towards the enemy team and being shot without shooting back? That is throwing (and feeding).

Someone picked Symmetra or Torbjorn on attack? That is not throwing.
02/07/2018 07:18 PMPosted by Ƙąmų
You can try to be as clear as you can Jeff, but because of your games ruleset, it ends up being confusing and contradicting no matter what.

How do you determine what is throwing? Is playing an offense symmetra throwing? Because it certainly reduces the odds of your team winning by not switching heroes depending on maps/modes and circumstances. And how does OTPing encourage team play exactly? In a team game where you are meant to change heroes depending on situation and working together. One tricking goes against all that and is just selfish. If you want to go that route, why not just make hero switching not possible in the first place? And just make it a draft based game. I dont get it...

Its like you just hope for a miracle to happen and this issue to go away by itself, meanwhile many of us have to suffer from one tricks.

Extremely well written, couldn't agree more. Yes a lot of people has no competitive mindset but currently they can play anyhow they want in this dedicated game mode. The problem is that Blizzard wants to favor both casual and competitive players but they are afraid to admit that it is not possible.
02/07/2018 07:25 PMPosted by Winks
02/07/2018 07:01 PMPosted by Nibelung
That is not "soft throwing". There is no thing as soft throwing because by definition, throwing is playing without the intention to win.

Arguing semantics gets us nowhere fast. You know what people say when they say someone is 'hard throwing' (jumping off the map/afking) vs 'soft throwing' (pretending to play, but really throwing) and it's way easier to just say that then having to explain what kind of throwing someone, like the fake Emongg, dude is doing.


How do you differentiate "soft throwing" (by your own definition) from someone having a bad day and simply performing poorly in that particular match?
02/07/2018 07:31 PMPosted by Nibelung
02/07/2018 07:25 PMPosted by Winks
...
Arguing semantics gets us nowhere fast. You know what people say when they say someone is 'hard throwing' (jumping off the map/afking) vs 'soft throwing' (pretending to play, but really throwing) and it's way easier to just say that then having to explain what kind of throwing someone, like the fake Emongg, dude is doing.


How do you differentiate "soft throwing" (by your own definition) from someone having a bad day and simply performing poorly in that particular match?


You cant. To him it makes no difference.
What about One-Tricks who refuse to communicate (not saying voice because obviously no one should be forced to voice) and get off scott free for being one-tricks?

What does "Poor Performance" even mean?
So please, where do you draw the line between onetricking and "refusing to cooperate"?
02/07/2018 07:18 PMPosted by Ƙąmų
You can try to be as clear as you can Jeff, but because of your games ruleset, it ends up being confusing and contradicting no matter what.


Just imagine Overwatch as court case with case law. If both parties differ in opinion a consideration has to be made about which interests have to be guarded foremost. In that sense it has to be the individual player being pressured by strangers into something he or she does not want.
Personal freedom wheights higher than what others think about someone choices.

I don't find it contradicting at all, but I understand that it might be for others.

But the rules are not confusing in the slightest, because everyone can easily understand whats allowed now, despite disagreeing about it.
Just because he says it shouldn't, people will still report it and on rare moments you do get banned for it. Accident or not.
02/07/2018 07:36 PMPosted by Felryn
What about One-Tricks who refuse to communicate (not saying voice because obviously no one should be forced to voice) and get off scott free for being one-tricks?

What does "Poor Performance" even mean?


Neither is a reportable offense.
02/07/2018 05:33 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
Let's be clear here and not confuse policy:

One Tricking is not bannable and should not be reported (it even says so in the text)

Throwing is bannable and should be reported. We appreciate your help here.

False reporting is bannable. Don't misuse the report system.


Thank you for making a clear statement on this. It will clear up alot of issues.
02/07/2018 07:31 PMPosted by Nibelung
How do you differentiate "soft throwing" (by your own definition) from someone having a bad day and simply performing poorly in that particular match?

This is literally the point of my posts. It's super hard to figure out and not something you can just easily pull from pure gameplay stats. Fake Emongg ruined hundreds and hundreds of games before being permabanned, and I say that without exaggeration. It was actually that many games. There was recorded evidence, people complaining at Blizzard on twitter, etc. And it wasn't until they really dug in deep into this guy's accounts that they discovered he's one of the worst trolls they've ever seen. Hence the question if Blizzard is developing a way to deal with this problem.
False reporting is 99% of overwatch lol
02/07/2018 07:34 PMPosted by DirkMaximus
02/07/2018 07:18 PMPosted by Ƙąmų
You can try to be as clear as you can Jeff, but because of your games ruleset, it ends up being confusing and contradicting no matter what.

How do you determine what is throwing? Is playing an offense symmetra throwing?


02/07/2018 05:33 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
One Tricking is not bannable and should not be reported (it even says so in the text)


I don't get iiiiiiiit


Playing a non optimal hero in a situation where you should clearly switch, is pretty much the same as that person continuously jumping off the map(it could actually be even better for the person to jump off the map, since at least that way he aint feeding ult charge to the enemy). It still ends up being 5v6 in the end, because that offense niche symmetra might not get anything done anyway if shes countered or just playing at wrong map/mode. Call it soft throwing or just throwing, but Its still throwing. The means of how its done is just different.
02/07/2018 07:36 PMPosted by Ice
So please, where do you draw the line between onetricking and "refusing to cooperate"?


Personal heropicks are not part of the ruleset, so the line is nowhere near there. And cooperation is something the parties involved have to agree upon. If there is no agreement, how would you determine who is more entitled to his opinion and should lash out punishment in conclusion?

@Felryn

Poor teamwork in terms of the ruleset ist to not take part in the game.

@Kamu

The difference is apparent. A person on a offmeta-hero wants to play the game. IN contrast a person jumping off cliffs does not want to play the game. It is no offense to want to play the game in different ways from what strangers might prefer.
02/07/2018 07:34 PMPosted by Deykar
02/07/2018 07:31 PMPosted by Nibelung
...

How do you differentiate "soft throwing" (by your own definition) from someone having a bad day and simply performing poorly in that particular match?


You cant. To him it makes no difference.


I agree. Thank you. I prefer to minimize the false positives when you have a community this big.

False Emongg was not "pretending to play correctly" very well, since as was pointed, he had a ton of accounts, and many of them were already banned. He was not "avoiding being banned", he was literally brute forcing through ban evasions by just having more accounts than Blizz could keep him banned.
02/07/2018 07:36 PMPosted by Felryn
What does "Poor Performance" even mean?


Not acting like a lifeless AI bot built to receive and execute commands issued by a player who themselves are a bit crap at playing Overwatch but think they're all that and a portion of kimchi?
02/07/2018 05:33 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
Let's be clear here and not confuse policy:

One Tricking is not bannable and should not be reported (it even says so in the text)

Throwing is bannable and should be reported. We appreciate your help here.

False reporting is bannable. Don't misuse the report system.
f

You should be bannable.
Jeff made Sauerkraut sauer.

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