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02/07/2018 05:33 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
Let's be clear here and not confuse policy:

One Tricking is not bannable and should not be reported (it even says so in the text)

Throwing is bannable and should be reported. We appreciate your help here.

False reporting is bannable. Don't misuse the report system.


Thanks for making this crystal clear, Jeff. We appreciate it.

If its not a big ask, can we try to look into why so many people feel they are being suspended for hero selection (particularly off-meta) despite not throwing and actively playing to win? i'm sure a few are justly suspended for other reasons but if hero selection is not bannable, its odd that so many players keep experiencing suspensions which seem to be for just that.
How do I report people that false report me? How do I even know who they are? I got banned recently for people not liking my hero selection and they refused to unban me and said that I deserved it. I've never thrown a game in my life so what gives?

Clearly one tricking or doing literally anything your teammates don't like automatically bannable.
02/07/2018 08:17 PMPosted by Izzy
How do I report people that false report me?


Fill that under harassment.

02/07/2018 08:17 PMPosted by Izzy
How do I even know who they are?


Most people who report you based solely on your hero pick usually try to argue so the rest of the players in the match also report you. If someone type or speak something like "report Izzy, he is not switching from <hero>", that is harassment, and thus, reportable.

If someone report you in silence, then you have no way to know who they are, but if you get banned for that, and your ban get reverted, probably Blizzard have some internal system to check the player that led to the false report. We can only have faith on that.
02/07/2018 05:47 PMPosted by Froilen
what about this then?

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20760728270?page=1
I too am curious about this case. What happens to all the people that were already banned due to false reporting related to their hero choices? Has their been any comment on whether or not the customer service representatives have been given more direction in this regard? Is there a reason no one ever followed up with kajak after he offered help ticket numbers, either to confirm he was lying or promise to do better in the future?
Why is one-tricking allowed, they play one hero forcing your whole team to play around them. Doesn't seem right in my opinion.
02/07/2018 07:48 PMPosted by Nibelung
False Emongg was not "pretending to play correctly" very well, since as was pointed, he had a ton of accounts, and many of them were already banned. He was not "avoiding being banned", he was literally brute forcing through ban evasions by just having more accounts than Blizz could keep him banned.

It took Blizzard almost a year to perm him and hundreds of ruined games. I'd say he did it pretty well.
02/07/2018 05:33 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
Let's be clear here and not confuse policy:

One Tricking is not bannable and should not be reported (it even says so in the text)

Throwing is bannable and should be reported. We appreciate your help here.

False reporting is bannable. Don't misuse the report system.


If the one trick is a hero that is easily countered, does it not make sense to switch?

Hero swapping was designed because it is seen as an important aspect of the game, not something to be ignored by those who don't want to be flexible. Being stubborn about swapping is actually being bad at a critical part of the game.

At what point does selfish game play cross the line from being a personal choice to affecting the team?
02/07/2018 05:35 PMPosted by LazyTitan
02/07/2018 05:33 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
Let's be clear here and not confuse policy:

One Tricking is not bannable and should not be reported (it even says so in the text)

Throwing is bannable and should be reported. We appreciate your help here.

False reporting is bannable. Don't misuse the report system.


Finally you have said it. Maybe this will stop the OTP wars on the forum.


Good luck with that.
02/07/2018 05:35 PMPosted by LazyTitan
02/07/2018 05:33 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
Let's be clear here and not confuse policy:

One Tricking is not bannable and should not be reported (it even says so in the text)

Throwing is bannable and should be reported. We appreciate your help here.

False reporting is bannable. Don't misuse the report system.


Finally you have said it. Maybe this will stop the OTP wars on the forum.


It wont, the anti-OTPS have an agenda and they arent going to back down just because theres been an official statement

theyre still going to argue that one tricking falls under "poor teamwork"
Poor Teamwork, simply needs to be removed from the report list. Its LITERALLY undefinable right now.

Comms? Dont care.
Swaps? Dont care.
One Trick? Dont care.

Tell me what Poor Teamwork is.
02/07/2018 05:33 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
Let's be clear here and not confuse policy:

One Tricking is not bannable and should not be reported (it even says so in the text)

Throwing is bannable and should be reported. We appreciate your help here.

False reporting is bannable. Don't misuse the report system.


That's still not being clear on the subject though. You say one tricking isn't a bannable offense, but then you turn around and contradict yourself by saying throwing is a bannable offense. 9 times out of 10, when you have a one trick Sym or Torb on your team, they're throwing because once the tactic doesn't work (like we'll see you're pushing on attack at Hanamura) and you're unable to get past the choke, that should be reportable. You can't report someone for just playing bad, but you can report them for deliberately playing bad.

That's the grey area which causes a lot of confusion. The thing is, most of the one tricks I meet are actually relatively nice people. They tend to tell you stuff like "I'll try my best" or "I was doing my best", but the thing is... If we need to change the comp, but you aren't willing to swap, that's not doing your best, imo. You KNOW it's not working, yet you're doing it anyway.

It's like trying to forcefully push a square peg into a circular hole and expecting it to fit properly. The worst part is when everyone else on your team is willing to swap and do everything they possibly can to fix the problem, yet the one trick still isn't swapping, so there's nothing more you can do to help ensure your win, so you're forced to take a loss. You can check my account, I'm sure, but every single one trick player I've reported, I did so because they were unwilling to cooperate with their team and be a team player.

They would ask for others to swap, yet they wouldn't give their team the same courtesy. If something went wrong, they would pass blame to others because OBVIOUSLY it's not the Sym or Torb's fault we're unable to push past the choke, right? It's just not a very fun experience, honestly. Long story short, one tricking is more or less a loophole in the system that many are exploiting right now and something absolutely has to be done about it at some point.

We have too many players insta-locking Sym or Torb, then thumbing their noses at their team saying "You can't report me! You can't report me! One tricking isn't bannable! Haha!", mocking us, because as you very well pointed out, it's not a reportable offense. So, what happens is, when we file a report regarding one tricks for throwing these matches, if we include in the report that they're a one trick, the report is probably dismissed on the grounds that one tricking isn't reportable, and the team completely disregards the fact that, one trick or not, this player was essentially throwing by refusing to cooperate with his team.

If you're playing a 1v1 game, I don't care if you one trick 24/7 all year around. That's not going to affect anyone but you. This is a team game though, so when you jump into competitive and you're insta-locking Sym or Torb every single match, that's not only impacting the 5 other players on your team, but also the 6 on the other team since they're not going to get much experience out of this match either. Trust me, as easy as you get SR in a 5v6 match because of a one trick player on the enemy team, it still doesn't feel very fun because you're not really learning much due to that player throwing, basically giving you the SR for free while screwing over his team.

Now, I can't speak on behalf of everyone here, but when I join competitive, I hope I can get a team that's as good as the opposing team so we can both enjoy ourselves without having any bad feelings after the match. You know, something that's just good wholesome fun. Nobody likes getting stomped and nobody likes stomping the other team either. It's just not a very enjoyable match that way.

This is why one tricking as a whole needs to be monitored. Maybe you can introduce a lockout system like how you lock out new characters from comp for a week. If a player picks a character X games in a row, then the character will finally be greyed out and they will have to play something else for X number of games before having access to it again. This will not only help alleviate the one tricking, but also give players an incentive to learn more than one character, which they should already be doing anyway.

Another bad thing about one tricking is that whenever this player sees their hero insta-locked by someone else on the team, they usually either:

A. Play incredibly poorly because they have to play one of the other 25 heroes they're unfamiliar with
or
B. Throw the match because "X took my main, so I'm throwing"

I encountered someone in a session tonight actually that was a Junkrat main and he threw as Sym because someone else went Junkrat. It's just ridiculous and should never happen, honestly. The fact that we even allowed ourselves to be painted into the corner like this is just kind of crazy to begin with. I understand not every hero is going to be viable, that's never going to happen, but we should at least be at a point where players should be wanting to play more than one hero instead of being not only rewarded for one tricking, but defended for doing it too, despite all of the downsides that come with it.

You said it yourself in a previous developer update, Jeff... Sometimes you need to swap otherwise your pick may not only cause harm to yourself, but to your team as well. That's true. You know one tricking is a problem. There's also the response you gave to Effect claiming how you understand his frustration and that one tricking is an issue that's being discussed internally on a daily basis, but the team isn't sure how to deal with it. There was also a video from late last year (or was it January?) where Blizzard stated that you want to maintain the freedom of choice and a player should be allowed to choose whatever hero they want to play out of the 26 currently in the game, but then that was immediately followed up with telling them to play as a team.

You can't tell someone "you can play whatever you want", then say "but I expect you to play as a team" since one tricking is the very definition of playing against your own team since it's an incredibly selfish mentality that destroys the foundation of teamwork because that player is only interested in their own wants and needs rather than what the team wants or needs. Anyway, I can talk about this until I'm blue in the face, like most of our members here, but I'd just be reiterating what I've already said, so I'll leave it at this.

Please look into this matter further, Jeff. I don't care if it's squashed by implementing a 'role queue', 'guild/clan system', or what, but please try and do something about it this year. Thank you.
02/07/2018 05:34 PMPosted by Veodok
Bookmarking for reference since the forum asks this question too many times


But if you one trick symmetra, and people report you for throwing, you're going to get banned regardless, because whether you are "throwing" or not is merely an opinion at that point.
02/07/2018 05:33 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
Let's be clear here and not confuse policy:

One Tricking is not bannable and should not be reported (it even says so in the text)

Throwing is bannable and should be reported. We appreciate your help here.

False reporting is bannable. Don't misuse the report system.


wall of text.


just because its not the outcome you wanted doesnt mean they need to look into it further. Hes been quite clear. one tricking is NOT reportable.

Also when people refer to throwing they mean INTENTIONAL throwing, as in their INTENT is to throw the game. One tricking is not inherently malicious like this. If the vague term of "throwing" was reportable you could report anybody who steps off the point in overtime, or accidentally wastes an ult/ability and doesnt have it in a key moment

INTENT matters. One tricks do not go into games planning to throw, they go in planning to win

if anything the people who throw games are the people who tilt as soon as they see a one trick
02/07/2018 09:07 PMPosted by Shenanigans

If the one trick is a hero that is easily countered, does it not make sense to switch?


Maybe, but not necessarily.

This post is not about what makes sense. Jeff likes and encourages switching too, but this post is about banning persons from the game.

And apparently you want to ban people, when they do something you do not like.

Opponents could counter a player no matter what he does. Heroswitches get overrated. However, do you really want a OTP to switch to something he never played before, threatening him with a report? That would be throwing on your part in my opinion, besides harassing.
Jeff "One-hit-kill" is on a killing spree recently. O.o
still gonna report one-tricks who don't work w/ team, idc.
02/07/2018 10:00 PMPosted by Fenrir
02/07/2018 05:33 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
Let's be clear here and not confuse policy:

One Tricking is not bannable and should not be reported (it even says so in the text)

Throwing is bannable and should be reported. We appreciate your help here.

False reporting is bannable. Don't misuse the report system.


That's still not being clear on the subject though. You say one tricking isn't a bannable offense, but then you turn around and contradict yourself by saying throwing is a bannable offense. 9 times out of 10, when you have a one trick Sym or Torb on your team, they're throwing because once the tactic doesn't work (like we'll see you're pushing on attack at Hanamura) and you're unable to get past the choke, that should be reportable. You can't report someone for just playing bad, but you can report them for deliberately playing bad.

That's the grey area which causes a lot of confusion. The thing is, most of the one tricks I meet are actually relatively nice people. They tend to tell you stuff like "I'll try my best" or "I was doing my best", but the thing is... If we need to change the comp, but you aren't willing to swap, that's not doing your best, imo. You KNOW it's not working, yet you're doing it anyway.

It's like trying to forcefully push a square peg into a circular hole and expecting it to fit properly. The worst part is when everyone else on your team is willing to swap and do everything they possibly can to fix the problem, yet the one trick still isn't swapping, so there's nothing more you can do to help ensure your win, so you're forced to take a loss. You can check my account, I'm sure, but every single one trick player I've reported, I did so because they were unwilling to cooperate with their team and be a team player.

They would ask for others to swap, yet they wouldn't give their team the same courtesy. If something went wrong, they would pass blame to others because OBVIOUSLY it's not the Sym or Torb's fault we're unable to push past the choke, right? It's just not a very fun experience, honestly. Long story short, one tricking is more or less a loophole in the system that many are exploiting right now and something absolutely has to be done about it at some point.

We have too many players insta-locking Sym or Torb, then thumbing their noses at their team saying "You can't report me! You can't report me! One tricking isn't bannable! Haha!", mocking us, because as you very well pointed out, it's not a reportable offense. So, what happens is, when we file a report regarding one tricks for throwing these matches, if we include in the report that they're a one trick, the report is probably dismissed on the grounds that one tricking isn't reportable, and the team completely disregards the fact that, one trick or not, this player was essentially throwing by refusing to cooperate with his team.

If you're playing a 1v1 game, I don't care if you one trick 24/7 all year around. That's not going to affect anyone but you. This is a team game though, so when you jump into competitive and you're insta-locking Sym or Torb every single match, that's not only impacting the 5 other players on your team, but also the 6 on the other team since they're not going to get much experience out of this match either. Trust me, as easy as you get SR in a 5v6 match because of a one trick player on the enemy team, it still doesn't feel very fun because you're not really learning much due to that player throwing, basically giving you the SR for free while screwing over his team.

Now, I can't speak on behalf of everyone here, but when I join competitive, I hope I can get a team that's as good as the opposing team so we can both enjoy ourselves without having any bad feelings after the match. You know, something that's just good wholesome fun. Nobody likes getting stomped and nobody likes stomping the other team either. It's just not a very enjoyable match that way.

This is why one tricking as a whole needs to be monitored. Maybe you can introduce a lockout system like how you lock out new characters from comp for a week. If a player picks a character X games in a row, then the character will finally be greyed out and they will have to play something else for X number of games before having access to it again. This will not only help alleviate the one tricking, but also give players an incentive to learn more than one character, which they should already be doing anyway.

Another bad thing about one tricking is that whenever this player sees their hero insta-locked by someone else on the team, they usually either:

A. Play incredibly poorly because they have to play one of the other 25 heroes they're unfamiliar with
or
B. Throw the match because "X took my main, so I'm throwing"

I encountered someone in a session tonight actually that was a Junkrat main and he threw as Sym because someone else went Junkrat. It's just ridiculous and should never happen, honestly. The fact that we even allowed ourselves to be painted into the corner like this is just kind of crazy to begin with. I understand not every hero is going to be viable, that's never going to happen, but we should at least be at a point where players should be wanting to play more than one hero instead of being not only rewarded for one tricking, but defended for doing it too, despite all of the downsides that come with it.

You said it yourself in a previous developer update, Jeff... Sometimes you need to swap otherwise your pick may not only cause harm to yourself, but to your team as well. That's true. You know one tricking is a problem. There's also the response you gave to Effect claiming how you understand his frustration and that one tricking is an issue that's being discussed internally on a daily basis, but the team isn't sure how to deal with it. There was also a video from late last year (or was it January?) where Blizzard stated that you want to maintain the freedom of choice and a player should be allowed to choose whatever hero they want to play out of the 26 currently in the game, but then that was immediately followed up with telling them to play as a team.

You can't tell someone "you can play whatever you want", then say "but I expect you to play as a team" since one tricking is the very definition of playing against your own team since it's an incredibly selfish mentality that destroys the foundation of teamwork because that player is only interested in their own wants and needs rather than what the team wants or needs. Anyway, I can talk about this until I'm blue in the face, like most of our members here, but I'd just be reiterating what I've already said, so I'll leave it at this.

Please look into this matter further, Jeff. I don't care if it's squashed by implementing a 'role queue', 'guild/clan system', or what, but please try and do something about it this year. Thank you.


Throwing is defined as feeding with the intention of giving the enemy ult charge, throwing yourself off a cliff, placing a teleporter of a cliff so that your teammates fall of the map, afk/inactivity and using game mechanics like Mei's wall to block your teammates.

Your definition of throwing isn't what Jeff means by "Throwing is bannable and should be reported".
If you 1-trick, you are causing your entire team to suffer the consequences of your selfish decisions. You are sabotaging the ranked experience and neglecting the needs of your team.

Playing to win the game, and playing to win the game with a specific hero, are very different things. Please play quickplay if you want to see how well you can do with a certain hero, because you are by definition not truly playing to win when you are playing a hero that is bad in the current situation, even if you try to win with that hero.

Your team is playing to win in ranked, and if you are 1 tricking, then you are NOT playing to win, you are playing to win with a bad hero. Overwatch is a cooperative game where your poor behavior causes your entire team to lose. This is NOT OK, no matter what daddy jeff tells you. The only reason blizz doesn't want to make 1 tricking an offense, is because they don't want to stop people from experimenting with different comps and strategies.

If blizz won't convince you to be a decent human being, please consider the experiences and feelings of your teammates. Take responsibility and play to win. Do not play to win with hero X. Playing to win with hero X has substantially lower chances of winning than playing a hero that matches the team's needs.
02/07/2018 05:33 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
Let's be clear here and not confuse policy:

One Tricking is not bannable and should not be reported (it even says so in the text)

Throwing is bannable and should be reported. We appreciate your help here.

False reporting is bannable. Don't misuse the report system.


The problem people are having isn't the rule Jeff, it's that we've seen evidence that your GM staff is either not actually reviewing tickets properly or apparantly ignoring the rules you've laid out. There's been too many examples of people getting banned with absurd GM responses telling them they deserved it for picking non meta heroes.

It doesnt happen much in my games as in mid gold everything is somewhat viable, even if far from optimal, but I'll report anyone encouraging others to report someone just for their hero pick. They're usually lying saying they're throwing when they're not and just being abusive to the non meta player. I'd expect if the rules were being applied then I'd get a notice eventually that one of them got actioned, but not as of yet. I avoid ever picking my fav Mei at the start of a match because I figure I'll tilt people. I stick with doing it later to try to save games we're going to otherwise lose. I figure I don't get reports because I either do save it or don't, but everyone already figured we'd lose so doesn't care. My problem is I'm never playing the game the way I'd like to because of the report system & the people running it.
Someone playing a hero and being hard counter and won't switch is asked nicely? To me that is feeding and will be reported as such.

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