Do you play to WIN?

Competitive Discussion
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How do you know what will win?

Your entire premise is based on the faulty assumption that YOU, or anyone else, know what hero change will win the game. This is extremely egotistical and usually wrong.

The amount of times people have screamed, pleaded, begged and sometimes politely asked for people on the team to switch to a "meta" hero, or a hitscan hero, or any other hero they think will turn the tide of battle, and this actually does indeed change the course of the game is very generously 50/50 at best.

Flexing does not equal winning. Switching to characters you are terrible at, does not equal winning. Having a specific comp does not equal winning.

I understand that in a vacuum certain characters, and comps are better, but we don't play in a vacuum, and there is WAY too much personal variance among players in ever single match to assume what comp, or characters will give you the best chance of winning in any given game.

You just sound like every other toxic, elitist fool in voice chat, that starts tilting, and then tilting the rest of the team, because people are not choosing what YOU think they should.
It honestly depends on what the team comp looks like at the start, if the team comp is so bad and has 0 synergies between heroes I've given up on trying to win and just play my best hero.

Team comp looks good at start then I do my best to win, team comp decides a lot of games in high plat/low diamond so if it's crap it's generally not even worth the effort to fill for in my experience.
02/03/2018 06:47 AMPosted by Dicdonya
How do you know what will win?

Your entire premise is based on the faulty assumption that YOU, or anyone else, know what hero change will win the game. This is extremely egotistical and usually wrong.

The amount of times people have screamed, pleaded, begged and sometimes politely asked for people on the team to switch to a "meta" hero, or a hitscan hero, or any other hero they think will turn the tide of battle, and this actually does indeed change the course of the game is very generously 50/50 at best.

Flexing does not equal winning. Switching to characters you are terrible at, does not equal winning. Having a specific comp does not equal winning.

I understand that in a vacuum certain characters, and comps are better, but we don't play in a vacuum, and there is WAY too much personal variance among players in ever single match to assume what comp, or characters will give you the best chance of winning in any given game.

You just sound like every other toxic, elitist fool in voice chat, that starts tilting, and then tilting the rest of the team, because people are not choosing what YOU think they should.
This game isn't quantum mechanics. Figuring out what hero is best for the win isn't that hard. If something isn't working now it won't start working later. Hard counters exist in this game. Sym isn't going to do much against a pharah. I understand not having to mindlessly follow your team. But why should you just ignore them and always assume your right in your pick. You can only improve your hero pool if you play something you are uncomfortable with.
02/03/2018 07:10 AMPosted by TurningDrop
This game isn't quantum mechanics. Figuring out what hero is best for the win isn't that hard. If something isn't working now it won't start working later. Hard counters exist in this game. Sym isn't going to do much against a pharah. I understand not having to mindlessly follow your team. But why should you just ignore them and always assume your right in your pick. You can only improve your hero pool if you play something you are uncomfortable with.


Sorry, the amount of variables going on in every single match is far closer to that of quantum mechanics, then that of rock paper scissors.

Sym sucks against Pharah sure, but that does not mean that a player switching off of Sym will give you a better chance to win.

Also there is ZERO hard counters in this game. Rock Paper Scissors can only be played one way, with exactly the same outcome for every interaction possible in the game. That is not the case in overwatch.

And finally, if you want to win, the only thing you can actually control in the game of overwatch, is yourself.
I’m all for changes and switching team comps if something don’t work, but I completely disagree with people who just flat out dismiss a character pick before the game even started. It’s all too often that when someone picks Sym or Torb on attack they immediately get flamed on, and that’s not fair.
Think about what Effect did. I mean he is in DallasFuel and he raged about the one trick symmetra mains because he could not play dps - cause he is "one of the best" dps mains so he should be granted dps...

All Im saying is if casual players have to flex pros should too. But we do not see that in competition do we? No! Because its not benefitial. You have a pre created team with certain player who play up to max two roles and they stick to it because it works.

So this game is basicly - you either lucky to have a group of people who have the exact roles you will need or you will put constantly into games where you suffer for the team :I

I would say competitive - everyone play it to win - maybe streamers only play it for views - but even they wont get more views if they keep losing. :D Because the rewarding feeling of playing comp is winning.
02/01/2018 02:47 PMPosted by iPrevail
02/01/2018 02:19 PMPosted by SiNNa
The fact that you have to ask "Do you play to Win?" on the competitive section of a so called "competitive" game goes to show you how awful this game truly is.


True that, i put 90% of the blame on the developers they should make it clear for the community what is competitive and what's expected of them.

One tricks should never be allowed if this was a real game competitive mode.
Throwing must be bannable (which is clearly not even in high ranks)
Many more issue and flaws which will remain unfixed in competitive until this game just slowly dies......

maybe someday blizzard will focus on the actual competitive mode instead of OWL.


I like how you said one tricks should never be allowed. I remember when Heroes of the Storm comp came out it had another requirement besides level. You had to own 10 heroes to be able to play it. I'm not saying that OW should introduce something like that but for HOTS it was good in a way because it incentivized you to learn how to play those heroes. Can't really think of a similar thing they could implement in OW, i kind of think they made a mistake there from the start. There was never any incentive for players to try and learn different heroes, and not even winning is incentive enough for them now.
02/03/2018 07:48 AMPosted by Judicator
I’m all for changes and switching team comps if something don’t work, but I completely disagree with people who just flat out dismiss a character pick before the game even started. It’s all too often that when someone picks Sym or Torb on attack they immediately get flamed on, and that’s not fair.


Sym and Torb are kind of circumstantial, it might work, it might not even on defense . Personally i'm always for letting people try but the fact is a lot of people refuse to switch even after they see they've been countered. I do also find it annoying when people ask you to switch off Pharah for example when there's an average Widow or any hitscan on the enemy team. I've played with a really good Pharah who can kill them 90% of the time and he still gets asked to switch in the first 10 seconds just because "hitscans counter Pharah"
02/03/2018 07:35 AMPosted by Dicdonya
Also there is ZERO hard counters in this game.


A hard counter is a combination of two heroes' strengths and weaknesses and their player's abilities. I play a lot of Winston, but I don't swap off immediately when I see a Reaper on the enemy team. I wait to see if he's good at killing Winston first.

You really don't know if your teammate is playing a poor choice until you see their name a few times in the kill feed. If you're giving up a point in the first minute and he's the only one getting picked, then yeah, it's time to encourage him to do something. But if you are looking at the team comps and pushing someone else to switch off based on your abilities with their hero, you're not being fair.
02/01/2018 06:23 AMPosted by iPrevail
02/01/2018 06:20 AMPosted by Berserker
Overwatch is a game, i'm not paid to play overwatch, if I am not in the mood of jumping on my main and want to unwind with torb or some other character I enjoy I shall. If I get politely asked to adjust I will consider, if I get flamed there isn't a single chance I will. Cheers.


That's why you are stuck in gold bro, im in 3.6k .. do you understand what you are doing wrong ?


You're a mercy main barely in diamond. What 3.6k?
02/03/2018 08:36 AMPosted by ShiroKabocha
A hard counter is a combination of two heroes' strengths and weaknesses and their player's abilities. I play a lot of Winston, but I don't swap off immediately when I see a Reaper on the enemy team. I wait to see if he's good at killing Winston first.

You really don't know if your teammate is playing a poor choice until you see their name a few times in the kill feed. If you're giving up a point in the first minute and he's the only one getting picked, then yeah, it's time to encourage him to do something. But if you are looking at the team comps and pushing someone else to switch off based on your abilities with their hero, you're not being fair.


I agree with you generally.

However hard counter implies that something CAN NOT beat something else. Thats why the hard is put in front of counter. This is also why people always errantly refer to the Rock-Paper-Scissors kid game when talking about Overwatch characters.

In that game Rock ALWAYS beat Scissors. There is no other outcome, thus rock is a hard counter to scissor.

That does not exist in overwatch. Yet there are numerous occasions that this mentality exists in a game, when there is no evidence of its validity. Ive personally been told Im being countered many times in this game, when I most certainly was not. This leads to tilt for no reason, and helps solidify a loss.

The same situation is even more often applied to "Meta" and "Off meta" heroes, and leads to losses just the same.

Very few people seem able to conceptualize the possibility, that the hero choices are not why you are losing. Almost always its caused by things like no teamwork, or just simply being worse than the other team.

I have won plenty of games with horrible comps. No healers, solo moira healer w/no tank, etc. If "meta" or hard counters were hard set rules of the game, this could not feasibly happen.
02/03/2018 09:43 AMPosted by Pixel
You're a mercy main barely in diamond. What 3.6k?


40% win rate on mercy to boot. Now I get why the OP seems so upset. He/She is picking the old "I win button" character, and not actually winning. Must mean no one else wants to...
02/03/2018 09:43 AMPosted by Pixel
02/01/2018 06:23 AMPosted by iPrevail
...

That's why you are stuck in gold bro, im in 3.6k .. do you understand what you are doing wrong ?


You're a mercy main barely in diamond. What 3.6k?


This is my alt account, my main account is "silenced" also named iPrevail 3.5k current SR main Tank
02/03/2018 07:55 AMPosted by Sas
Think about what Effect did. I mean he is in DallasFuel and he raged about the one trick symmetra mains because he could not play dps - cause he is "one of the best" dps mains so he should be granted dps...

All Im saying is if casual players have to flex pros should too. But we do not see that in competition do we? No! Because its not benefitial. You have a pre created team with certain player who play up to max two roles and they stick to it because it works.

So this game is basicly - you either lucky to have a group of people who have the exact roles you will need or you will put constantly into games where you suffer for the team :I

I would say competitive - everyone play it to win - maybe streamers only play it for views - but even they wont get more views if they keep losing. :D Because the rewarding feeling of playing comp is winning.
Effect plays dps in matchmaking because he is one of the best dps in the world. Also because he wanted to practice for the league. Since he plays dps for league. That's all matchmaking is basically is just aim practice.
02/03/2018 07:35 AMPosted by Dicdonya
Sorry, the amount of variables going on in every single match is far closer to that of quantum mechanics, then that of rock paper scissors.

Sym sucks against Pharah sure, but that does not mean that a player switching off of Sym will give you a better chance to win.

Also there is ZERO hard counters in this game. Rock Paper Scissors can only be played one way, with exactly the same outcome for every interaction possible in the game. That is not the case in overwatch.

And finally, if you want to win, the only thing you can actually control in the game of overwatch, is yourself.
You can only control yourself. But why should you just mindlessly not switch heroes when someone asks. If you aren't winning the match then someone needs to change. If someone tells you to switch then you should consider it. Then you just have the same mindset as someone who tells you to switch and doesn't want to switch themselves. There are also plenty of people who will ask you to switch because they know what to do and can see that you switching will help you win.
02/01/2018 06:38 AMPosted by TǍURUS
DVa does, I play to improve.

Anyway I got a solution, that many won't like but there you go.
We don't need a 2-2-2 everytime, but I have never won with 6 dps. In this game you need at least one healer and a tank, right? Now imagine those two support or tank players being actual tank or support mains and not flex toxic players. Mmh, feels good right? There is no use of 2 toxic and bad support slot fillers, they don't amount to a single dedicated and good support main.
Considering 2/3 Overwatch players want to play dps, we can simply have one support and one tank forced picks. We can still have crazy comps, we can still have 2-2-2 comps if someone wants to tank or support, but we won't have toxic matches anymore. Heck even the game itself knows that you need at least a support and a tank to win, what's wrong with this soft version of role select and why no one ever thought about this before.


I've won several games without any supports. I was on roadhog and the rest of my team was 5 dps in the most recent example I have of it. I've also used sombra in a game with 5 other dps players to heal everyone with health packs. But I am in a lower elo so it's probably stuff I couldn't get away with in higher ones.
SO here's the thing. In games like this you play with other human beings who have different reasons. I personally play comp because i like the chance to play both attack and defense in one game. If quick play wasn't broken up between attack and defense I would probably play qp more often than comp as comp is toxic as hell. also no such things as counters, just characters that do well against others but you can play say, Dva or McCree and do poorly against tracers because the enemy tracer is just better than you are. I often find when say a junkrat or a mei is willing to swap to McCree or 76 to counter a pharah they will often struggle to handle the pharah because it's a role they're not use too. I would rather have them playing characters they like and are familiar with because that's how they'll enjoy the game and want to play more.
02/03/2018 06:47 AMPosted by Dicdonya
How do you know what will win?

Your entire premise is based on the faulty assumption that YOU, or anyone else, know what hero change will win the game. This is extremely egotistical and usually wrong.

The amount of times people have screamed, pleaded, begged and sometimes politely asked for people on the team to switch to a "meta" hero, or a hitscan hero, or any other hero they think will turn the tide of battle, and this actually does indeed change the course of the game is very generously 50/50 at best.

Flexing does not equal winning. Switching to characters you are terrible at, does not equal winning. Having a specific comp does not equal winning.

I understand that in a vacuum certain characters, and comps are better, but we don't play in a vacuum, and there is WAY too much personal variance among players in ever single match to assume what comp, or characters will give you the best chance of winning in any given game.

You just sound like every other toxic, elitist fool in voice chat, that starts tilting, and then tilting the rest of the team, because people are not choosing what YOU think they should.


you are right. Lets just play the same heroes all game, never switching for 4 minutes in a row til eventually the timer runs out and we have 0% progress on the point. Why swap? Lets just get the loss over quicker :D I mean thats what your post is implying right?
02/01/2018 08:56 PMPosted by MisAdventure
"Should" is your opinion... It is not FACT.. Fact is that people can and will play their character of choice and the rules allow it.

You all need to put your big boy pants on and deal with reality, you will not change people or control them, focus on yourself.


You shouldn't be clicking on ranked play then, stick to QP. That's what it's there for. Overwatch is a team based so if you're doing something that obviously isn't helpful then you're essentially throwing.
02/03/2018 12:19 PMPosted by PHNTM
02/01/2018 08:56 PMPosted by MisAdventure
"Should" is your opinion... It is not FACT.. Fact is that people can and will play their character of choice and the rules allow it.

You all need to put your big boy pants on and deal with reality, you will not change people or control them, focus on yourself.


You shouldn't be clicking on ranked play then, stick to QP. That's what it's there for. Overwatch is a team based so if you're doing something that obviously isn't helpful then you're essentially throwing.


People think Blizzard have to babysit them and teach them every single thing on how to play competitive, its basic logic, the developers doesn't have to put rules on every single thing, damn kids.

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