How would you make Valkyrie more fun?

General Discussion
02/08/2018 11:01 PMPosted by Shane
Is mercy boring or underpowered?
The community can't seem to decide.

02/08/2018 11:10 PMPosted by Shane
I like mercy's current state. She shouldn't be more powerful than the other healers. That Is why the game is in such a bad state. Its revolves around mercy being able to resurrect.

If you read properly most people arent talking about rez. They are talking about making the mercy ulti feel like an ulti
Reduce length to 10 seconds.
Make heal beam a single target beam with 180 hps.
Keep damage beam as a 30% damage increase chain beam, but all recipients also get 60 hps.
I think Valk needs to be shorten quite a bit. At its current length you can't really buff anything else on it without it becoming "OP".

A few brief ideas I have had:

Increase healing/damage boost to main target and keep the chains where they are now.

No res cast time, don't give it another charge, don't decrease its cooldown, simply no cast-time while in Valk, or a much shorter cast time while in Valk.

Combine the healing and the damage boost into one stream.

I think the increased tether in Valk should be removed as well, it allows mercy to hide away from the fight too easily in my opinion, and if her healing output was increased I think its only fair the large tether length to be removed to compensate.

Note I'm not saying add ALL of these for Valk, these are just a few different ideas
02/08/2018 11:07 PMPosted by Skald
I’d flip it’s positioning, shorten it’s timing and place it instead as her E ability. Leave it to Mercy on how to use it — panic button, offensive assist, defensive shoring up, etc.

Then I’d put REZ as a chargeup ultimate. She’d Still only Rez one person at a time but the cast time could be made instant and the cost to charge it adjusted to what feels fair.

That’s what I’d do.

I actually like this idea, although I don't know how over- or underpowered this might be in practice.
Basically, I'm just a fan of anything that makes me have to earn my resurrect (either an ultimate, mass, or single target or an e-ability that functions like Torb's scrap) instead of getting it every 30 seconds with no way to get it faster or slower, depending on how good of a job I'm doing.

I think a cast time even during this would be fair, but more along the lines of Sombra's hack and not almost 2 full seconds of standing still. I mean, it's still possible to rez with how it currently functions, it just feels absolutely awful for the player.

Edit: Other than that, this is an idea I also like.
02/08/2018 11:01 PMPosted by Xian396
Increase the output on the primary target then decrease on the chained targets, for starters. This way it'll highlight the players ability to juggle team hp and not do it for them. Other buffs/changes could be: a) pressing Q again removes the chain healing for like 3-5 seconds but increases the healing output on a single target, allows you to save a teammate when they're badly positioned/targetted by another person's ult; and b) increase the range of Rez and remove the slow debuff.
i think valk is fine.

the problem imo is rez.

i would remove rez and give mercy a short radius heal burst abililty.

that would rise her skill ceiling again, you could also use heal burst during valk, it would make valk also more exciting, since you would need to get close to teammates again.. and make a decision .. "do i wanna go for the healing burst or may i get killed". right now mercys dont have to do a lot of decisions regarding rez.

rez atm is in the bad state.. bronze mercys do the same amount of rezzes like grandmaster ones. its not a good thing.
Add an aoe burst heal upon activating valk.
I would put more emphasis onto GA and Resurrect. Lower GA's cooldown during Valkyrie by 0.5 seconds, increase GA's speed by a bit and restrict Resurrect to Valkyrie. On activation of Valkyrie, Mercy receives 3 instant Resurrect charges, but the skill itself has a 3 second cooldown in between uses. This would make Valkyrie more desirable to use because it has play-making potential again.
The issue with it is LACK OF NOTICEABLE IMPACT!

Mass Rez had HELLA feedback when it came to that. You'd have that epic Voiceline "MY SERVANTS NEVER DIE!" It'd blow up the kill feed, giant glowing would be on the screen. It also had a real noticeable effect to your team...THEY NOTICE WHEN YOU BRING EM BACK TO LIFE!

Valkyrie had this effect for a bit...but it was too much and EVERYONE knows that! She essentially had both Mass Rez and Valkyrie at the start...Which was HUGE. I'm glad they toned it down but each time they did tone down made something very apparent: Literally all you do in Valkyrie is Heal and Damage boost with the ability to fly and have infinite ammo that you honestly don't really get to abuse because YOU'RE MERCY!

  • How would I fix Valkyrie?
  • You can't (At least, I don't think you can.) I think it was flawed from its very inception. You play Mercy to use Rez...That's her gimmick. Mobility is nice, there's about 15 other characters who can also move really well. Healing is also good...but we do have other people who can heal. Not as well granted...but they're funner to play so what do I care!? Most of us ain't pros. We play to have fun, Valkyrie isn't fun...hell, it's not even an ultimate really. It doesn't really change how you play enough like the other Transformation ultimates. Taking Rez off an ultimate made it too easy to get, burning people the hell out making the hate for it worse.

    Rez had to be charged and the best Mercy's did it the fastest. It's very much noticeable to everyone and it had a huge payoff if you were good. They can raise it's charge time and give it LOS...but I think Mass Rez should come back. And I'm not NOR HAVE I EVER BEEN a Mercy main! This idea that only Mercy Mains miss Mass Rez is stupid. It's even more stupid when people think they just wanna be boosted due to "this broken ability." THEY FIXED THE SR SYSTEM PEOPLE! YOU CAN'T GET BOOSTED OFF OF MASS REZ ANYMORE IF YOU WANTED TO!
    Give her a reason to damage boost or pistol.

    I think the first mistake was giving a long duration/low impact ult to a character that used to have a burst duration/high impact ult - it's as if Genji's Dragonblade was switched for a gigantic deflect that lasted 15 seconds (powerful in its own way but extremely boring, especially compared to the previous version). So my first suggestion would be making it so the impact is higher, and shorten the duration if it is necessary.

    The next thing I think is an issue is that Valkyrie is disengaging the player for a very long time. This isn't so much an issue with shorter ults like Transcendence, but with an ult that lasts 15 seconds that's a problem. It's one of the reasons many Mercy mains miss the resurrect charge/instant rez, because it gave us a reason to engage and swoop down into the battlefield. So if the duration is to remain they have to give us a reason to be alert and pay attention. I understand the two instant rezzes felt bad, but what if rez was instant during ult BUT she could only gain the second one (or first one depending on whether you just used the cooldown) by filling a meter? You could make it so it required quite a lot of it to fill, that way she wouldn't be able to get off two rezzes back-to-back.

    And thirdly, Valkyrie in many ways makes Mercy's lack of agency very clear. Sure, she can rez every 30 seconds, but only if someone helps her or the enemies are inattentive - it feels more like it's in the hands of others whether or not the rez will be successful. And then her healing is always 60 hp/second, no more and no less. And that's fine outside her ult, but shouldn't her ult make her feel like the ultimate healer? As of now the maximum healing output of Valkyrie is only half of Transcendence, and that's assuming Mercy is alive the full duration. Give Mercy agency by making her main beam and branching beams heal/boost different amounts, it will allow her to prioritize and make the player feel like they made a decision that saved someone. It's still not super engaging, but it would be a lot better than what we have now. For example, if the main beam healed 100 hp/second and the others 50 hp/second the total maximum output would still be the same as her current Valk.
    Guardian angel: speed increased 25%
    Pistol: 50dmg to the head, 25 to the body
    Resurrect: Instant for just that one resurrect
    Valkyrie flight: make it better to control and not be so inconsistent
    Valkyrie flight speed: increased to 10mps from 9mps(or 11 from the old Mercy 2.0)
    Valkyrie beams: 90hps/45%damage boost for main target
    Valkyrie walk: option to cancel flight and return to walking and an option to return to flight(by presssing Q again you return to walking and then press Q again to begin flight again)
    Resurrect: when you resurrect someone then Valkyrie her cooldown instantly drops to 15-20s or isn’t affected if it already was below those.

    Not all of these have to be implemented but these are ideas
    So let's say they remove the ever so problematic rez ability entirely. Mercy needs to be able to do some damage and stay alive. At the current state, using Valk is just an easy way to killed and basically doesn't feel fun at all.

    Rez was so important to Mercy-mains because it felt like you were actually doing something to help the team. When you were able to swoop in and completely change the flow of the game, yes it was powerful but the same could be said of Symmetra's teleporter.

    Valkyrie prior to the nerf felt ok, I mean there was rarely a reason to pull out your pistol (as Mercy, whenever DO you have time to pull out your pistol? Plus most would complain if you dared to do dmg instead of healing). Now, it's just basically a frustrating "How long until I'm shot down or get out of this?" feeling.

    So there is a few options if you want to rework her abilities and remove the resurrect ability entirely..

    Shield/Health Buff after a certain amount of healing is done - This rewards Mercy players for sticking by and healing her team. She can have a boost of her health pool or some kind of shield to help protect her - if she stays consistent on her healing/boosting. If she starts to fall off that, she loses the extra health boost/shield.

    Increases Healing Rate of TeamMates - Another ability based on how well Mercy is preforming- kind of a build-up ability like an ultimate. This would have a duration and cool-down too but she'd be able to help teammates and other healers by making their health-pool go up faster.

    Speed Increase - Simply make her faster or zippier like Lucio, smaller hit-box or something. Not the best option but an option none the less.

    Back Off/Defensive - Similar to Ana's sleep dart, Lucio's boop - she has something she can defend herself against other players. Instead of just zipping to the nearest dps and hoping they will take care of it.

    Increase Damage via Pistol or Beams - Make her staff actually do some kind of damage or projectile or make her hold her gun at the same time. Make her attribute to the team beyond just being the bare-bones healer. Every other support can do damage easily - not insane amount but they can help pick off other players. This will make Mercy feel more relevant to the team and give Mercy player's more to "do".
    1. During Valk, make the current target get healed/damage boosted for 90HPS/45% damage boost. The chained allies around the one you're healing/damage boosting gets the regular 60HPS/30% damage boost. This would make Mercy, as someone said earlier,
    02/08/2018 11:04 PMPosted by Fate
    actively have to observe and prioritize healing on low targets or key players
    2. Keeping the current Rez mechanic of having a cast time but reducing it, like make it halved or something.
    3. Increase GA speed in Valk cuz that was actually fun going ZOOM ZOOM!
    02/08/2018 11:01 PMPosted by Shane
    Is mercy boring or underpowered?
    The community can't seem to decide.

    Both. She's both.
    Easiest solution I see is just start over.
    The chain beams need serious tweaks or removal as right now they do Mercy's job of juggling health for her, the flight is rather redundant with the enhanced GA with bunnyhop and only adds to hitscan weakness, and the duration needs to take a nosedive so it can be a short extreme burst of power like ultimates generally are.
    Right now I don't see Valk ever working for all sides without basically being 100% reformed.
    Also get rez off E. Worst idea of the change.
    Giver her a set of javelin while in ult that she throws at peoples face. I mean it's not going to happen but it surely is more fun than looking at a gold beam from 10m in the air instead of on the ground.
    Aside from compressing Valkyrie, which is increased HPS/boost but shorter, I think the more reasonable way to do it is introducing super beam. Similar to Soldier 76, his job is to do reliable damage, and his ult gives him highly reliable damage; Mercy's job is single target support, which her ult should give her strong pocketing power(ironically it is what current exactly not doing).

    Based on that, I would like to see Valkyrie with a single-targeted beam that looks and is very strong, while reducing the duration to match others. It might look something like this :
    Healing : 150/s
    Damage Boost : +50%
    Range : 20m(instead of the current 30m)
    Duration : 8s
    02/08/2018 10:30 PMPosted by AdunSaveMe
    I think the biggest problem with it at the moment is that the ultimate doesn't feel very impactful, especially since it doesn't boost healing, and you're still just holding a mouse button the entire time.

    How would you make it more fun to use?

    inb4 revert

    They don't have to revert. All they have to do is add 1 instant rez to Valk...nothing else. It's simple and that takes care of the issue.

    Join the Conversation

    Return to Forum