How is hanzo coming along?

General Discussion
Prev 1 8 9 10 18 Next
Would love some dragon related quick event ability. Like a smaller dragon coming out quickly , a small roar sound and then CC enemies.
Not going to read 8 pages of posts, so forgive me if I've mentioned something that someone else has before.

Ideas for the Hanzo Change/Rework:
1: Homing arrow as shown in the Animated short. It'll allow not so great players to be able to play as Hanzo, however it'll have to be balanced. What I had in mind is it not dealing as much damage and/or being unable to headshot and not home in too much that you can easily knock Pharah and Mercy out of the sky. Pretty much an aim assisted arrow on a cooldown.
2: Hack/Silence style arrow to give him more utility like Sombra has? But perhaps just make abilities disabled for shorter than Sombra's hack while also making Torb turret have the same disabled duration.
3a: Add 1 or 2 bound to mentioned unused R key.
3b: Unbind the arrows from E and Shift and have them bound to numbers and use the scroll wheel to be able to select them too.
4a: Have Scatter deal less damage overall.
4b: Have Scatter always spread like you've hit a wall directly in front of you no matter the surface angle relative to you.
4c: Have Scatter split just as or soon after you fire it while still having the overall damage reduced, not being able to bounce and not being able to scatter if it hits a surface before hand.

Just my ideas.
It's really odd that they're talking about more DPS alternatives to Hanzo when what most people have been asking for is just his survivability.

There are other of utility ideas and I dont think blizzard is going that direction and just opting for a DPS alternative for Hanzo which as far as I know isn't the issue as to why he isn't being picked as much in comp. I'm not saying he doesn't need a dps alternative, removing scatter arrow for any utility, you would need to buff some other stuff to keep him viable as a DPS. But it just doesn't look like blizzard is going that direction.
If they're just looking for a DPS alternative. There's no point to changing scatter arrow then as none of what they tried beats scatter arrow in fun and dps.

If they want to give Hanzo a DPS alternative that may possibly also factor into his survivability. One idea might be an ability that gives him 3 or more arrows that can bounce as well as be rapid fire with full drawn damage. This can factor into his dps for obvious reasons (burst damage and increased chances of hits because of bounce) but also give Hanzo a chance on dealing with being harrassed by say a tracer or Genji. Unlike scatter arrow in which if you miss, you're screwed, this will give you greater chance of hitting anyone as you can always aim you next shot with little delay. This temporarily removes hanzos vunersbility when he's drawing his arrow and makes him a more terrifying Target to deal with close range (if he is a good aim atleast)
Bomb Arrow. Deals 125 damage on hit and explodes 2 or 3 seconds after for additional 175 AoE damage. It still can one-shot all heroes except tanks, but now gives enemies some time to react and find a way to save themselves like ask for some healing or protection from teammates. The trick is that explosion part is an AoE and it can hurt enemy healers trying to save bombed target if they get too close to it. Bomb arrow can also be placed on surfaces, creating 2 or 3 seconds of danger zone for area denial. Come on, Hanzo is a Defense hero after all.
1. Double Jump to improve Hanzo's mobility so he can defend himself better when getting focused.

2. Keep scatter but nerf damage to 300 max, and add a "alternate fire" so he can detonate the scatter arrow mid-air.
Solution:

1.) Give Hanzo double jump

2.) Replace scatter arrow with a knockback arrow that works through shields and deflect and Dva's matrix, but does no damage

Double jump would give Hanzo more utility and make him more viable in 1v1's, plus it would offer the opportunity to find angles over the top of shields. It would also be incredibly satisfying to release an arrow at the peak of a double jump and find a headshot with it. Fits the hero fantasy well.

A knockback arrow would offer tremendous utility. Hanzo would be able to ruin enemy pushes or dives. He would also have a chance to escape a diving Dva, Winston, or Genji because they would use their movement ability (dash, leap, etc.) and he would knock them back, creating a gap they couldn't bridge until their movement ability went up again. This knockback would also be very useful on attack because it could push back an entrenched defense.

Together, these changes would dramatically increases Hanzo's utility and viability without making him overpowered. In fact, these changes work in favor of skill, and not spam. Plus, they fit his role as a defense hero.

These changes would also make Hanzo more fun to watch, and to play. Perhaps even more fun to play against. As Hanzo, you would have a chance to escape diving tanks, and more opportunities to find headshots with your double jump. Yet, the opposing team wouldn't feel the frustration of getting scattered. Instead, if they got hit with a clutch headshot, they would acknowledge it was skillful in the same way a grapple-Widow headshot is.

What do you guys think?
I see Hanzo as a similar role like junk, he spams in chokes dealing allot of dmg and he is good against flanks and flanking or bad position widow because of his kit to use sonic arrow as a vision ability combined with scatter arrow to shot arrows in that space without the enemy knowing. First of all i wouldn't change scatter as a base ability i would just modify it like i would increase the number of arrows, lower a bit the dmg and wouldnt one shot from below an enemy hero. With that in mind i would proc a message like detected like in the case of sombra whenever sonic arrow is used and you are "detected" by that arrow. In any case if scatter arrow should be changed i would recommend "Fan Arrow" as 6 piercing arrows that were shot horizontally in front of him for more consistent dmg and maybe a jump back that can connect sometimes with a wall cilmb, ability similar to HOTS. :D
Why not just give him a summersault ? When he does it he deals 100 damage to the enemy closest to him. This way he has a get of me tool and an escape mechanic.
Timed explosive arrow maybe, couple it with sonic you could fire it at a corner and itll blow up once tripped doing a certain amount of damage, be as visible as widows mine or something.

The animation cooldown one sounds horrid though, at least it does to me, whenever I see a Hanzo play he's not usually firing constantly thus him not shooting for 2-3 seconds wouldnt make much difference to the team but it would make a horrendous difference against whilst he constantly refreshes his abilities...
To balance hanzo's scatter arrow it could be another idea to create an explosive-arrow.

It sticks to a target and explodes after a second into smaller arrows. The pattern how the arrows will be emitted stays the same (like a firework rocket). So it is more reliable how the damage will be done and tanks shouldnt be immediatly dead :)
02/08/2018 06:01 PMPosted by Geoff Goodman
We're still working on him so it might be a bit early to talk about where we are right now.

What I can do is mention a few things we have tried that haven't worked so far, that might be interesting.

We tried replacing Scatter Arrow with Piercing Arrow, which was an arrow that had an extremely fast projectile speed and would pierce through enemies and barriers. This was pretty fun as a 'snipey' arrow that you could occasionally take a super long-ranged shot at an enemy widow, pharah, or just a support in their back lines. Ultimately though, it was pretty frustrating to be feeling safe behind a barrier and get headshot through it and die.

Another thing we played with was just changing Scatter significantly. The most successful version was one where it had a very fast projectile speed, could only ricochet one time, could no longer split off the floor, and had a much tighter spread. This version removed the floor scatter entirely but added some new options in either using it as a long-range sniper shot or using it more accurately off a single wall (or ceiling). This one was pretty fun but mostly just felt really hard to use consistently. There were some areas of maps where it felt useful and fun but a lot of the time there weren't any usable surfaces around to cause a split, and using your cooldown to merely increase the projectile speed of your shot didn't feel great as a common use-case.

Another crazy thing we playtested a few times was a new ability bound to his Reload key (which is currently unused). This ability would have a small animation delay (~2-3 seconds) after which your cooldowns would reset. This meant if you wanted to sacrifice some normal shots you could forcibly reset your special arrows. This was pretty interesting when paired with the Piercing Arrow idea, but felt pretty crazy with Sonic Arrow. This idea overall wasn't bad but I think its shelved for now.

We're still narrowing in on what broad direction to take him, and what would make you really glad to have him on your team etc.


The piercing arrow is something I'd been thinking might have been a good option for Hanzo. Honestly instead of simply as an a ability I was thinking that shield piercing should be an inherent ability of his arrow with something like damage being reduced by half if it goes through a shield to prevent one shots from behind a shield(And I'm saying this as a Rein main). It would give him a unique niche as the anti barrier sniper.

As for the scatter replacement, I can see where the difficulty in figuring out something new comes from. Something with an AOE seems best in my opinion so he can have some area denial and he doesn't always need to land a skillshot to damage.
02/08/2018 06:01 PMPosted by Geoff Goodman
We're still working on him so it might be a bit early to talk about where we are right now.

What I can do is mention a few things we have tried that haven't worked so far, that might be interesting.

We tried replacing Scatter Arrow with Piercing Arrow, which was an arrow that had an extremely fast projectile speed and would pierce through enemies and barriers. This was pretty fun as a 'snipey' arrow that you could occasionally take a super long-ranged shot at an enemy widow, pharah, or just a support in their back lines. Ultimately though, it was pretty frustrating to be feeling safe behind a barrier and get headshot through it and die.

Another thing we played with was just changing Scatter significantly. The most successful version was one where it had a very fast projectile speed, could only ricochet one time, could no longer split off the floor, and had a much tighter spread. This version removed the floor scatter entirely but added some new options in either using it as a long-range sniper shot or using it more accurately off a single wall (or ceiling). This one was pretty fun but mostly just felt really hard to use consistently. There were some areas of maps where it felt useful and fun but a lot of the time there weren't any usable surfaces around to cause a split, and using your cooldown to merely increase the projectile speed of your shot didn't feel great as a common use-case.

Another crazy thing we playtested a few times was a new ability bound to his Reload key (which is currently unused). This ability would have a small animation delay (~2-3 seconds) after which your cooldowns would reset. This meant if you wanted to sacrifice some normal shots you could forcibly reset your special arrows. This was pretty interesting when paired with the Piercing Arrow idea, but felt pretty crazy with Sonic Arrow. This idea overall wasn't bad but I think its shelved for now.

We're still narrowing in on what broad direction to take him, and what would make you really glad to have him on your team etc.


Geoff how about a wall pin arrow that would work kinda like a long range doomfist punch but sticks someone on the wall for a period of time instead of damage. A secondary use for this arrow could be that allies can jump on the arrow when it is in the wall so you could use it to give team mates high ground. Maybe even combine it with the ability reload mechanic to allow a ladder of arrows
I have two suggestions:

- Change to Scatter: Instead of the shards splitting immediately after hitting something, let the player decide when to detonate it, as a mine. If you hit someone, the arrow would be stuck in the enemy's body and you can detonate it any time. Or maybe detonate mid-air.

- New movement ability: a small dash forward (kind of like McCree), but if you hit someone with the dash, you jump over him and your next arrow if fully charged. If you use the ability while wall climbing, you'll do a backflip similiar to his highlight intro.
02/08/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Sorteagan
this whole thing has me nervous. it's nice seeing what's been done and hasnt worked so far but I cant help but fear what will come with the official change. whatever that may be. especially since it feels like these changes are just to give the forums and their constant anti-scatter spam what they want.
and surprise, surprise, downvoted for voicing my concern.

I agree. Scatter or at least something similar is needed for protection if you main Hanzo. Those that actually play Hanzo instead of complain about him understand how squishy he is. Long range scatters are inconsistent and given his lack of respect in pub games your unlikely to get any heals or shielding unless you seek it yourself. Sure, scatter can take down someone with one shot...if they're not jumping a lot but it's not like he's the only character who can kill with one well timed attack! I'm glad they understand that something is needed to replace scatter if removed but I worry that they'll ruin an already underappreciated character.
02/08/2018 06:06 PMPosted by Coulumbo
02/08/2018 06:03 PMPosted by Crusher55
...Use this post to rate Jeff's.


Am I the only one who thinks its really lame when people do this?


Yes, cringe.
02/08/2018 06:01 PMPosted by Geoff Goodman

We're still narrowing in on what broad direction to take him, and what would make you really glad to have him on your team etc.


Please don't make him overpowered like 30% Ironclad Bastion or original 2-mines Junkrat with flying silent Riptire.
02/08/2018 06:01 PMPosted by Geoff Goodman
What I can do is mention a few things we have tried that haven't worked so far, that might be interesting.


The fantasy of scatter is problematic, scattering is nigh impossible in real life. For scatter to hit successfully, you, your scatter point and your target need to be in the same plane (simple geometry right). In a game as fast paced as Overwatch the only reliable plane you can find is the vertical plane where you scatter the plane perpendicular to it, the floor/ceiling.[/quote]

I think that even if there was a guide track to see how your scatter would bounce it be hard to find angles to hit targets, you just end up scattering into ground or the sky most of the time trying to use walls or angled surfaces.

You could program scatter to always scatter on a virtual horizontal and vertical plane, regardless of the angle of surface it hits. This would be nothing like real physics but might work in game. Basically it simulates hitting a vertical wall and a horizontal wall, the arrow would always scatter back at the the same angles relative to the virtual and horizontal plane as it came in. The in-game surface just acts for collision detection.

02/08/2018 06:01 PMPosted by Geoff Goodman
We're still narrowing in on what broad direction to take him, and what would make you really glad to have him on your team etc.


A flanking sniper, which he already is, too many people don't know how to use his mobility. Hanzo's biggest challenge are shields, shooting through shields is not an option. You tried that. Mechanically Hanzo doesnt really have any other problems, maybe 450 burst but that can easily be fixed with a damage cap per target. His main problem is his popularity, people don't like being one-shot, people don't like inconsistent heroes on their team. At the same time Hanzo is one of the few heroes who in a good game can carry a team. Fixing one popularity issue most likely makes the other worse, unless you basically replace Hanzo for some hero that isnt an archer.

If you cant find a good alternative to scatter then just dmg cap it. Just please, don't change something for the sake of changing it, unless it actually makes things better, don't do it.
Time for a sillier suggestion. How about a tether arrow?

The arrow Hanzo fires is attached to a rope. Once it hits a target, Hanzo drives a stake into the ground. The target takes the arrow damage and then is also unable to move beyond the bounds set by the tether. The stake itself could be an object with hp like Orisa's supercharger if the target wants to release themselves before the tether naturally expires.
Scatter arrow could fire just a single shot and bounce off a single surface (floor or otherwise). That, I feel, would play nice with sonic arrow, and actually require some skill to use. ex: You sonic arrow, find someone around the corner, and then you actually have to line up a scatter arrow to hit them.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum