Is Tracer Too Strong Or Her Counters Too Weak?

General Discussion
Counters to inconsistent. Even Genji has more consistent counters to his play style than Tracer. A decent Winston, Zarya, Symmetra (maybe not Symmetra), Moira, and Mei (provide they have good tracking) can shut him down. Tracer counter's have to know where she is and predict where she's going and deal 150 damage faster than she can recall or be able to deal with a 250 HP hero.

It's why I really REALLY hope Hero 27 has an airburst weapon so he can deal with Tracer with consistency. Someone that can pressure her to constantly retreat before doing anything major.
02/05/2018 02:01 PMPosted by Bergtau
Tracer isn't necessarily OP, she's just frustrating to play against. She's like a bug. Everybody hates bugs flying around them, but a bug that that can also mess you up is particularly hated. She is also very high skill cap. Not only do you need good aiming/tracking, you need very good movement skills. This allows skilled players to use their higher skill to overcome counters very well and it seems OP, but what it really is most of the time is that the Tracer is better than you.


I agree with your post and it's a very nice analogy.
The problem is that there isn't a reliable fly swatter in OverWatch. We need to improve current fly swatters to do their job better.
02/05/2018 01:40 PMPosted by Chaseface
Discuss.

I think her counters are too weak. She of herself seems fair.


For the most part? Neither. I think the only counter that could be argued as too weak is Sombra and that's just because of overall design flaws rather than specifically her capabilities against Tracer.

Tracer's perfectly fine because her kit offers virtually nothing as far as anything that could be considered OP, she moves in a straight line and goes back to 3 seconds ago, not particularly crazy. The only reason Tracer is good is because that high mobility facilitates a faster paced, quicker reaction playstyle.

People think Tracer's counters are too weak because you still need skill to counter her, and that's not what people want when they think counter. They want a Reaper V Winston where it's virtually impossible to lose without being ganged up on.

The problem with countering Tracer is her raw simplicity, anything you put in to counter her either already exists in the way of Sombra and Mei and Junkrat being able to take away that mobility factor, or would simply dominate everything else just because of how easy it would be by comparison.

Until a character is designed SPECIFICALLY to counter Tracer, like preys on her usage of blink and recall, there will never be the Tracer counter that that community wants. But they refuse to accept that, so instead they claim that Tracer is OP or that all other character's are UP and need a buff.
She has no hard counters. Tracer can easily outplay McCree and Mei, while Moira can only hold her own and Zarya can only truly deal with her using Graviton. Winston is basically Tracer food, since all the shield juking in the world doesn't change the fact that she can just blink out of range or juke him in turn.

Junkrat's trap I don't count; if you know what to look for where it's super easy to counter.
02/05/2018 02:06 PMPosted by Skyfoogle
02/05/2018 01:43 PMPosted by Xaron
Tracer is balanced, no one denies it. She just doesn't have a solid counter.

If no hero in the entire 26-hero roster is a solid counter to her, would that not make her unbalanced?

Or maybe the roster itself that's actually not balanced well? Tracer is imo very balanced atm. She's really strong when the player does not !@#$ up a single step, but miss that single step and she'll fall over real hard.

I'm an unranked player who only plays QP and Arcade, and it's common to see Tracer players either being seemingly omnipotence with omniscience awareness or just straight up acting like a headless chicken, randomly panic-blinking or simply getting so panicked that they forget to blink or recall when a Mei freezes their %^-.

She's balanced, it's just that some of the heroes that should be able to counter her well are just kinda(or REALLY) underpowered right now, and i don't think i'm over my head when i say that's a fact.
After all this time she doesn't need an ability timing change. Hanzo doesn't even have to aim at her and he can kill her. There's your counter. Hog and D'va can one shot her still. McCree...
A perfect flanking well timed hack from sombra can end a tracer quickly, but that's if the tracer is unaware, which probably won't happen.
So we need a affective, hard to use, in meta counter. Genji?
Buff Flashbang. It's 5 meters range for 0.7 sec stun on a 10 secs cooldown.
Increase the range to 10 meters and the stun duration to 0.9 sec. It would give her a real counter.
02/05/2018 01:43 PMPosted by Xaron
Tracer is balanced, no one denies it. She just doesn't have a solid counter. Closest is McCree, but she can out play his flashbang if she knows what she's doing.

A Tracer who doesn't make a mistake will not die. She needs a counter that can kill her despite that.

Go into high elo, Tracer is better than genji at his job
the only reason high elo players play genji is because of his ult
Tracer is one character.

Her counters are many.

If tracer is beating her counters then doesn't that mean Tracer is too Strong, rather than her Counters being too weak?

Don't we always say it's better to Nerf the nail that stands out than buff an entire bunch of heroes?
Sombra can hack Tracer while she's reloading, then again, Tracer can just blink away..
02/05/2018 04:27 PMPosted by Mochan
Tracer is one character.

Her counters are many.

If tracer is beating her counters then doesn't that mean Tracer is too Strong, rather than her Counters being too weak?

Don't we always say it's better to Nerf the nail that stands out than buff an entire bunch of heroes?

But how about buffing her counters so that rather than them being more powerful in general, they get some buff that specifically makes them counter Tracer or any hyper mobility character better?

Some people on the forum have suggested a few sensible "buffs", like make it so Sombra's hack will hack her instantly if she tries to blink away, give Mei's primary an ability to specifically gives debuff to mobility skills so Tracer can't just bully her at melee range, and give Sym a similar effect but adjust it so the debuff/damage won't be too much but just enough so that Tracer or Genji will think twice before entering areas that are ideal for Sym's turrets like that one two-stories saloon in Holywood for example.
Tracer is too strong. Her kit allows her to avoid every form of damage in this game, if you think that's balanced you're stupid.
the thing is with Tracer is that her counters are difficult to buff to a point where they don't become OP. Case in point: Junkrat, McCree.
A little of both.
Her damage is slightly to high and het counters have no reliable way to counter her.
I think Moira is a reliable anti-flank. No she won't outright murder Tracer, but she can harass her off her target or annoy her enough for a while.
Counters to Tracer's pulse bomb or significantly reduce it's effectiveness.

Zarya Bubble (Anyone), D.VA Defense Matrix (Anyone), Wraith Form, Fade, Transcendence (Zen only), Sound Barrier if time extremely well (anyone in range), Primal Rage, Bastion's Tank Configuration, Roadhog's self heal, Orisa fortify, Sombra's translocate, Tracer's recall, Mei's ice block, Torb's ult, Doomfist's ult. Am I missing any?

Pretty sure Zarya can do her thing even after Tracer's stuck a target. No preemptive actions needed.

Things that can one shot Tracer.

Everything that can one shot 200 hp heroes. (D.VA bomb, scatter arrow, ect.)

Everything that can one shot only Tracer (Or.... Pilot D.va.. I guess). Mei's head shot, damage boosted Widowmaker/Hanzo body shots, damage boosted McCree headshots (no flashbang required!), damage boosted direct Junkrat grenades or mines, damage boosted direct Pharah rockets (make sure to dive down on her from above for maximum effectiveness and reduce projectile travel time!), Damage boosted Soldier: 76's direct helix rockets. Torb's alt fire (must land all pellets so get in close), Damage Boosted Torb primary headshots. Half charged Doomfist Rocket punch (Must have wall impact as well). Reaper landing 11 (one more than half the total amount) pellets as headshots or 16 pellets as body damage and 3 as headshots (that's right he still doesn't need to land all his pellets!), Roadhog landing all his pellets as body damage, or half as headshots. Damage boosted dragon blade. Remember no amount or mobility or Recalls will save you from getting one-shotted!

I'm sure there's tons more via combining damage boosting, discord and nano boost in various ways. Such as Reinhardt's melee (needs all three), or Fire Strike (just damage boost and discord.)

Nail in the coffin is a successful Sombra hack can take away her defenses to avoid all of this.

Biggest thing I can say is Overwatch is a team game. Not 1v1 death match in a vacuum Fox only, no items, final destination. Tracer's mobility DOES NOT make her immune to damage at all or even abilities as I have been hooked and flash banged mid blink countless times. People like to argue that she can just blink and avoid damage acting like it somehow makes her immune to everything and that's all they need to argue. That's way too simplistic. That's not how it works in real game play, trust me.

Hope this helps.
Wow. A lot more comments on here than I expected.

I hope for a point of clarification that all of you know I am not here to bash on Tracer or anything like that. I am glad to get other's perceptions on her.

I've always felt that she was the epitome of balance, but I do see her as being problematic in spite of that.
02/05/2018 01:40 PMPosted by Chaseface
Discuss.

I think her counters are too weak. She of herself seems fair.


players playing against her are too weak

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