Prove Genji is OP.

General Discussion
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02/13/2018 12:43 AMPosted by M3T4
02/13/2018 12:41 AMPosted by pkthebird
Good gosh, Genji's deflect hitbox is broken and overpowered.


A misleading visual doesn't make a hero OP.

If it did then Junkrat's trap and D.Va's DM would be OP because they're larger than the visual.


Lying or being in denial doesn't refute the video evidence that Genji's deflect skill is broken or bugged. Why is Genji able to deflect projectiles through a wall, able to kill/damage someone. Why do you think his sword should be able cut through a wall, let alone block? Would you be okay if DVA or Junkrat can shot through walls too for kills, then insist it's "visuals?" No that would be unfair just as Genji's Bugged Deflection Hitbox.

Why is Genji able to deflect Bastion Sentry Bullets when the gun is not pointing at him and yet still deflect for a free kill. That's broken and exploitive. Nothing to do with visuals.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759150839?page=1
02/13/2018 11:42 AMPosted by pkthebird
02/13/2018 12:43 AMPosted by M3T4
...

A misleading visual doesn't make a hero OP.

If it did then Junkrat's trap and D.Va's DM would be OP because they're larger than the visual.


Lying or being in denial doesn't refute the video evidence that Genji's deflect skill is broken or bugged. Why is Genji able to deflect projectiles through a wall, able to kill/damage someone. Why do you think his sword should be able cut through a wall, let alone block? Would you be okay if DVA or Junkrat can shot through walls too for kills, then insist it's "visuals?" No that would be unfair just as Genji's Bugged Deflection Hitbox.

Why is Genji able to deflect Bastion Sentry Bullets when the gun is not pointing at him and yet still deflect for a free kill. That's broken and exploitive. Nothing to do with visuals.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759150839?page=1
If you care enough about deflect being used through walls ,you should've known it was already fixed : https://news.blizzard.com/en-gb/overwatch/21275367/overwatch-ptr-now-available-december-7-2017
and FYI the thread you linked even says that it was fixed

Maybe look at what you send instead of calling people liars ?

As for the "bastion not even shooting at his deflect , he definitely was shooting at his deflect hitbox , It's just that the visuals don't match it, so yes ,it is visuals.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Lying or being in denial doesn't refute the video evidence that Genji's deflect skill is broken or bugged. Why is Genji able to deflect projectiles through a wall, able to kill/damage someone. Why do you think his sword should be able cut through a wall, let alone block? Would you be okay if DVA or Junkrat can shot through walls too for kills, then insist it's "visuals?" No that would be unfair just as Genji's Bugged Deflection Hitbox.

Why is Genji able to deflect Bastion Sentry Bullets when the gun is not pointing at him and yet still deflect for a free kill. That's broken and exploitive. Nothing to do with visuals.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759150839?page=1
If you care enough about deflect being used through walls ,you should've known it was already fixed : https://news.blizzard.com/en-gb/overwatch/21275367/overwatch-ptr-now-available-december-7-2017
and FYI the thread you linked even says that it was fixed

Maybe look at what you send instead of calling people liars ?

As for the "bastion not even shooting at his deflect , he definitely was shooting at his deflect hitbox , It's just that the visuals don't match it, so yes ,it is visuals.


@alhaitham

OP wanted samples of "Prove Genji is OP." Maybe read what they asked before white knighting.

People posted clear example why people previously consider him OP as well as current time. You still don't think deflecting through walls during the time WASN'T OP? Pretending it's not is deceptive and a lie where there is clear proof. The mental gymnastics that's oh it's just genji's "visuals." Yea visuals that can still kill other players to win in an exploitative OP fashion.

Even today if you take Bastion shots way off the side, between genji leg, feet, or below him. Genji still can deflect the damage back. That deflect hitbox is still known to be broken and OP.
Deflect, hitboxes, cancels.
How about you convince us he's NOT op?
02/13/2018 04:44 PMPosted by MisterB
How about you convince us he's NOT op?

As someone who's spent years studying criminal justice this just made me sick to my stomach a little
What about how Blizz said they didn't want wraith form to be cancelable, because they thought it was more balanced to have abilities that are "all in," with potential drawbacks. Then they make Genji's most powerful defensive ability cancellable.
02/12/2018 02:56 PMPosted by Grevier
Congratulations on bringing your main more hate, that will surely help all main Genjis image.

You're acting as if he did anything bad by simply saying he thinks Genji is balanced, and it's justified hating him for his mild opinion.
02/13/2018 05:10 PMPosted by Traaaaaaacer
What about how Blizz said they didn't want wraith form to be cancelable, because they thought it was more balanced to have abilities that are "all in," with potential drawbacks. Then they make Genji's most powerful defensive ability cancellable.


The difference is Wraith Form gave full immunity, cancelling would allow to Reaper to oneshot you before you can do ANYTHING in a duel due to latency, you'd be dead before the server even renders him vulnerable after the cancel.

Cancelling Deflect with Dash not only uses both of his cooldowns but still leaves him vulnerable inbetween the cancel and him attacking you.
The only thing frustrating with Genji is his deflect. It feels so cheap to die to. You try to predict but even after you shot first on your screen, his deflect gets the priority. So when you're already half dead from your own shot, Genji can dash through you and right click and kill you before even having time to react. That is what feels so OP about him.
02/13/2018 05:27 PMPosted by Maffis
The only thing frustrating with Genji is his deflect. It feels so cheap to die to. You try to predict but even after you shot first on your screen, his deflect gets the priority. So when you're already half dead from your own shot, Genji can dash through you and right click and kill you before even having time to react. That is what feels so OP about him.


If you're playing a hitscan hero and shoot deflect, he deflected before you shot.

Widowmaker can headshot you before you have time to react, Hanzo can Scatter you before you have time to react, Tracer can kill you in under half a second with her primary fire while blinking around, good luck reacting to that.
02/13/2018 05:25 PMPosted by M3T4
Cancelling Deflect with Dash not only uses both of his cooldowns but still leaves him vulnerable in between the cancel and him attacking you.
Dash damage appears to be applied at the start of the action, not at the end, or during.

For example, you can visually kill him at ranged, and have the Dash damage applied to you, and die. The kill cam can even show he died before reaching you.

There's also no animation clues he's cancelled the Deflect. Between this and the auto damage, latency doesn't affect Genji the same way it may of affected Reaper in a similar scenario.

As to using both cooldowns... Genji isn't as bound to his cooldowns as Tracer is. Tracer without cooldowns is an easy target. Genji without cooldowns is still difficult to track. I believe this is why Blizzard is experimenting with Sombra being able to hack him further than just his abilities; to truly negate his mobility and make him as easy a target as Tracer is.

02/13/2018 05:34 PMPosted by M3T4
If you're playing a hitscan hero and shoot deflect, he deflected before you shot.
Actually, the code logic suggests otherwise. OW (and WoW, for that matter), has a tendency to have a sweet spot where both actions can occur at the same time. Apparently, this also includes hitscan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrTHonqijRg&feature=youtu.be&t=1m41s
(Older video, but as far as I'm aware, Blizzard hasn't changed anything regarding favor the shooter, networking, or the like)

The sweet spot can also explain why sometimes it feels like even with a hitscan, Genji appears to deflect afterwards, visually. Latency in animations, even 20ms can be enough to make it feel like it happened afterwards, but really... they happened at the same time at the server.
Dash damage appears to be applied at the start of the action, not at the end, or during.


It doesn't.

For example, you can visually kill him at ranged, and have the Dash damage applied to you, and die. The kill cam can even show he died before reaching you.


This happens when the dash completes on Genji's end but he dies first on YOUR end, once the server catches up it registers the dash as completed and applies the damage despite him being dead.

02/13/2018 05:58 PMPosted by Midi
Actually, the code logic suggests otherwise. OW (and WoW, for that matter), has a tendency to have a sweet spot where both actions can occur at the same time. Apparently, this also includes hitscan:


If they occur at the exact same time without latency I'd assume it's random which one goes first.
02/13/2018 06:04 PMPosted by M3T4
It doesn't.

02/13/2018 06:04 PMPosted by M3T4
This happens when the dash completes on Genji's end but he dies first on YOUR end, once the server catches up it registers the dash as completed and applies the damage despite him being dead.

https://giant.gfycat.com/GrayGeneralKillifish.webm

That's a good visual representation of it, and most reddit threads I've found seem to imply this is normal for Dash.

You're suggesting the sweet spot in the code logic, but for the above to happen, that sweet spot would have to be huge, or the latency would have massive for it to happen (assuming favour the shooter allows such a duration).

02/13/2018 06:04 PMPosted by M3T4
If they occur at the exact same time without latency I'd assume it's random which one goes first.
Then the video I posted wouldn't be possible, ever. The sweet spot isn't exactly a new thing in Blizzard games.
Genji has 5 letters, the 5th letter of the alphabet is e. E is the second letter in Genji's name. 2 is the number of letters in OP. Genji is OP confirmed.
That's a good visual representation of it, and most reddit threads I've found seem to imply this is normal for Dash.


I explained what happened, the dash completed on Genji's end but he died before it completed serverside.

02/13/2018 06:53 PMPosted by Cheat2Win
Genji has 5 letters, the 5th letter of the alphabet is e. E is the second letter in Genji's name. 2 is the number of letters in OP. Genji is OP confirmed.


2 Is the number of letters in UP too
Can spam double jump to immediately become multiple times harder to kill, which also obscures his headshot hitbox. Has no damage drop off, but is somehow a close range flanker. Exaggerated over forgiving hitboxes on every aspect of his kit. Fast charging ultimate that has a massive easy to use hitbox, and usually ends with a team kill.
02/13/2018 07:09 PMPosted by LilD
Can spam double jump to immediately become multiple times harder to kill,


Baby D.Va can spam crouch + AD, should we nerf her too because people can't aim?

02/13/2018 07:09 PMPosted by LilD
Has no damage drop off, but is somehow a close range flanker.


He's designed to poke at range to build ultimate

02/13/2018 07:09 PMPosted by LilD
Exaggerated over forgiving hitboxes on every aspect of his kit.


Dragonblade hitbox is exactly 5m, same as Reinhardt hammer without the corners, so it's smaller.

Dash is in-line with hero-model to hitbox size with all the other damaging movement abilities

Deflect is the only issue, which isn't the hitbox but rather the visual.

02/13/2018 07:09 PMPosted by LilD
Fast charging ultimate that has a massive easy to use hitbox,


Smaller than Reinhardt's hammer, it's charge rate is directly correlated to how well Genji is playing.

02/13/2018 07:09 PMPosted by LilD
and usually ends with a team kill.


Has many counters, if you can't counter it then you deserve to get wiped.
02/13/2018 06:56 PMPosted by M3T4
I explained what happened, the dash completed on Genji's end but he died before it completed serverside.
Wait, but that implies that the client is authoritative, which goes against what we know of how OW handles the client interactions.

It also flies in the face of the hit registration issue, where the server ignores what the client thinks. As far as I can tell, server-side is authoritative and is happy to ignore actions on the client.

If client side is authoritative, then what you say makes sense, because the action completed. But if the server is, the damage shouldn't of applied because he died before the Dash completed server side. In theory, that means Junkrat shouldn't of died because the damage no longer exists (Genji is dead).

But he still takes damage. Either the sweet spot is huge, or Dash applies damage at the start.

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