If SR really indicates skill, then why is MMR a thing?

Competitive Discussion
Thoughts?
Sr is the assigned number that is a seasonal representation of your mmr.

Mmr exists so silvers don't go against masters ECT.
Bliz have stated that MMR changes quickly - I think they said within 15 games a GM smurf account has the same MMR as their main. Hence MMR doesn't really show you anything other than how your last few games have gone.

That said I am really not a fan of MMR, eliminating performance based gains and losses across the board is the best choice IMO.
MMR is a little hidden thing that helps the system to understand where you belong. It starts from quickplay and could easily track sudden changes in skill (such as smurfing, boosting, alt. accounts etc).
SR is a formal number that is used in matchmaking. One could say, SR represents your current ability to climb the ladder.

As far as my theory goes, MMR was implemented to complement (lul) SR system and make it more effective. For instance:
1. It helps people to get to their "true" SR faster (boosting SR gains for players who clearly outperform and vice versa);
2. It "corrects" luck factor to a certain degree. Players who underperform have trouble getting to higher SR even with positive winrate, players who got unlucky can climb back way faster.
3. It helps new players to be placed closer to their "true" rating, thus making entire ladder more stable.
4. and such, bla bla bla.

The downsides are that MR can be manipulated (mercy and some other OTP incidents before SR changes), and no matter how its justified, i dont think that players with positive winrate should ever lose SR, and those with negative - win it. It breaks the core principle of competetive.
02/07/2018 01:16 AMPosted by BOO
It starts from quickplay


Competitive MMR and quickplay MMR are two completely separate things calculated based on two completely separate game modes.

You can literally buy a new account and play quickplay until level 25 with an XBOX controller losing every game getting 0 kills as Soldier 76 and do your placements in competitive playing like a God and getting placed in mid-masters.
02/07/2018 01:35 AMPosted by Magnus
02/07/2018 01:16 AMPosted by BOO
It starts from quickplay


Competitive MMR and quickplay MMR are two completely separate things calculated based on two completely separate game modes.

You can literally buy a new account and play quickplay until level 25 with an XBOX controller losing every game getting 0 kills as Soldier 76 and do your placements in competitive playing like a God and getting placed in mid-masters.


i know, i've tried experiments with smurfs, but it does exist in QP too. Although clear interaction between QP and comp SR is still a mystery to me (there seems to be some).
02/07/2018 01:02 AMPosted by Solitara
Sr is the assigned number that is a seasonal representation of your mmr.

Mmr exists so silvers don't go against masters ECT.


mmr is there for blizzard to keep control on the percentage distribution across ranks. gold has the highest number of players and it will always be like that. even if some of them deserve to go up according to their skill, blizzard will not allow it.
MMR exists so you don't get boosted or play tricks with the SR system, basically.
MMR is a thing because they don't want a system that is based purely on wins/losses. I've easily carried teams before. Do you really think that if I get 4 golds as DPS, and my other DPS player gets 0 medals, we are on equal footing? We should both get the same amount for a win?

It's just a more accurate way to determine a players skill.
02/07/2018 02:51 AMPosted by Applesoup
MMR is a thing because they don't want a system that is based purely on wins/losses. I've easily carried teams before. Do you really think that if I get 4 golds as DPS, and my other DPS player gets 0 medals, we are on equal footing? We should both get the same amount for a win?

It's just a more accurate way to determine a players skill.


then why am I losing the same number of SR points as the other team members when I am having 3-4 gold medals?
02/07/2018 03:07 AMPosted by adolfie
02/07/2018 02:51 AMPosted by Applesoup
MMR is a thing because they don't want a system that is based purely on wins/losses. I've easily carried teams before. Do you really think that if I get 4 golds as DPS, and my other DPS player gets 0 medals, we are on equal footing? We should both get the same amount for a win?

It's just a more accurate way to determine a players skill.


then why am I losing the same number of SR points as the other team members when I am having 3-4 gold medals?
That was just an example to point out that if I'm largely outperforming my teammate, my teammate should not receive the same amount of gain, since I'm obviously better. (this was an example between 2 dps players).

And do you not know how the system works? Medals don't matter. Your SR from personal performance is adjusted based on how other players play your character, at your rank, on the map that you're playing.

For instance, if the average gold soldier 76 gets 20k damage on volskaya, and you get 10k damage, you'll get less SR.

Of course, the exact statistics that they use haven't been released.
Sr determines your rank...MMR is what actually measures your skill.
MMR is not adjusted for decay from Diamond+ ranks, SR is adjusted.

So whilst the person is decayed down, when they come back to playing they're not actually playing diamonds (as that would be unfair), they're playing the same rank that they were before decay.

This is one of the primary reasons for MMR and hence why matchmaking is based on MMR and not SR.

MMR is a little "more stable" than SR, from what i can gather from the bits of information given by Blizzard, I imagine MMR is likely a type of rolling average of your SR or similar.

People seem to think that MMR looks back at every single game you've ever played, so the more you play, the more you're "stuck in elo hell", this is utter garbage.

My main account is in masters, when i lose SR I see the other players in my next games are also lower SR, when I win I also see there SR go up.

This means MMR and SR must be VERY closely coupled, as a global average across all games played would not be impacted greatly by any one single win or loss.

This is just my theory, but I suspect it's probably a rolling average of SR from the last 10-20 games or so.

The main issue we have, we do not have enough information from Blizzard and this leave it open to people coming up with all sorts of wild assumptions, thinking MMR is some evil bad thing forcing you on losses etc.

Lots of games have an internal and external scoring (SR/MMR), I believe even CSGO follows similar approach.
02/07/2018 12:56 AMPosted by Raven
Thoughts?


Your subject line says it all. Here's a bit more on the topic of handicapping/MMR:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20760857618
02/07/2018 12:56 AMPosted by Raven
Thoughts?


Your subject line says it all. Short answer is that it exists to make Overwatch a better cash cow for Blizzard. These two systems are diametrically opposed to competitive players' interests.

Here's a bit more on the topic of handicapping/MMR:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20760857618
02/07/2018 01:05 AMPosted by Gibberish
Bliz have stated that MMR changes quickly - I think they said within 15 games a GM smurf account has the same MMR as their main.


That was for a brand new account, not a smurf account (which is an account intentionally placed low). Not surprisingly, brand new accounts have their MMR move much faster than normal.

SR, despite the name, is not a direct representation of your skill. Blizzard doesn't pretend otherwise, either. Look at decay, do you think a GM who doesn't play for a few weeks is now a 3000 player? Why would all high ranks who take a break end up right at 3000 SR?

SR is your rank, which is closely tied to your skill (MMR), but not identical to it. Blizzard can change that rank for various reasons that don't involve you getting better or worse, and thus shouldn't impact your MMR. Like decay, punishing players who leave games, when they changed the distribution of ranks, etc.

Outside of special circumstances, your SR just converges to your MMR anyway, so for practical purposes it doesn't matter.
your mmr and sr USUALLY are a direct representation of eachother, unless said player is smurfing.

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