Why Won't Blizzard Tell Us How MMR/SR Calculates?

Competitive Discussion
I suppose the title says it all, but I'm genuinely curious as to why they refuse to tell us why we gained what we gained or lost what we lost. All we literally know is "You lost a match, so you lose SR." and "You won a match, so you gain SR"

Why is it that at the end of a match I can't see myself compared to the other average players of that hero on that map, with a breakdown of everything I did compared to the average player.

I want to know what I'm doing wrong. Because apparently if I go on a losing streak, that's my fault. It's not the matchmakers fault, it's not the MMR, it's not the SR, it's because I didn't play well enough. So please, Blizzard, tell me why that is.

I want to see a breakdown of - Was my accuracy worse than the average player? Was my number of eliminations lower? Was my damage blocked too little? Was my healing not on par with the "norm"?

If you're going to use my INDIVIDUAL SR to put me in a group of teammates that the system considers "equal" yet I only gain or lose SR depending on if the TEAM wins or loses. Then please, tell me exactly what I did to cause that loss so that I can work on it. Or tell me what I did to cause that win, so that I can continue doing it.
Because they know the system is severely flawed and prone to abuse.

That said, I still agree with you, having the MMR hidden is a terrible idea and a source to many of the frustrations players have with competing in this game.
It's the same thing as asking to google to show their search engine code or Ferrero to give us theirs nutela receipt.
It's company secret. And for which reason they should give you the work they've done during several years (someone can copy it for free) ?
02/08/2018 01:48 AMPosted by Faoline
It's the same thing as asking to google to show their search engine code or Ferrero to give us theirs nutela receipt.
It's company secret. And for which reason they should give you the work they've done during several years (someone can copy it for free) ?


company secret? hahahahahhahaahhahahaha

SC2 has added the feature more than 2 years ago.
02/08/2018 01:48 AMPosted by Faoline
It's the same thing as asking to google to show their search engine code or Ferrero to give us theirs nutela receipt.
It's company secret. And for which reason they should give you the work they've done during several years (someone can copy it for free) ?


That's not what we're asking for /at all/. I don't want to see their code. I want to know why I'm being penalized or rewarded.

It's the equivalent of taking a test in school, getting your paper back and you've got an "F", and the only reason you're given for the "F" is that your class just didn't do well on the test.

There's no explanation of what questions you missed, why you missed them, or what you can do to improve your grade. It's just literally "Your class didn't pass."

I don't need to see the code Blizzard wrote for their algorithms, all I want to see are the things I've done/not done that is getting plugged into those algorithms to determine my rank.
02/08/2018 01:53 AMPosted by RabidSponge
02/08/2018 01:48 AMPosted by Faoline
It's the same thing as asking to google to show their search engine code or Ferrero to give us theirs nutela receipt.
It's company secret. And for which reason they should give you the work they've done during several years (someone can copy it for free) ?


That's not what we're asking for /at all/. I don't want to see their code. I want to know why I'm being penalized or rewarded.

It's the equivalent of taking a test in school, getting your paper back and you've got an "F", and the only reason you're given for the "F" is that your class just didn't do well on the test.

There's no explanation of what questions you missed, why you missed them, or what you can do to improve your grade. It's just literally "Your class didn't pass."

I don't need to see the code Blizzard wrote for their algorithms, all I want to see are the things I've done/not done that is getting plugged into those algorithms to determine my rank.


this!

we need match history with detailed statistics to be added. and the mmr scale.
that is it!
02/08/2018 01:52 AMPosted by adolfie
02/08/2018 01:48 AMPosted by Faoline
It's the same thing as asking to google to show their search engine code or Ferrero to give us theirs nutela receipt.
It's company secret. And for which reason they should give you the work they've done during several years (someone can copy it for free) ?


company secret? hahahahahhahaahhahahaha

SC2 has added the feature more than 2 years ago.


Can you explain yourself a bit more because i don't understand what is funny with company's secrets ?

Every company in the world have advantage of something they try to hide in order to keep their advantage.
02/08/2018 01:53 AMPosted by RabidSponge
That's not what we're asking for /at all/. I don't want to see their code. I want to know why I'm being penalized or rewarded.


I will play the dumb guy but "I'm being penalized or rewarded" egual to win or loss, no ?

More seriously, i understand what you means but it's a personal matter to analyse your own game. In my case, I record every comp game and after a take a look at all my loose to see the reason of the loss. Sometime it's my fault sometime its just thrower and sometime it's just bad luck.

02/08/2018 01:55 AMPosted by adolfie
we need match history with detailed statistics to be added. and the mmr scale.


I'd love to have it too. I'm using OverTrack to have something equivalent but there is a lot of bug for me.
Because the same reason they don't post on the competitive forums anymore. They have nothing valuable to say, because they created a flawed mode.
02/08/2018 01:24 AMPosted by RabidSponge
I suppose the title says it all, but I'm genuinely curious as to why they refuse to tell us why we gained what we gained or lost what we lost. All we literally know is "You lost a match, so you lose SR." and "You won a match, so you gain SR"

Why is it that at the end of a match I can't see myself compared to the other average players of that hero on that map, with a breakdown of everything I did compared to the average player.

I want to know what I'm doing wrong. Because apparently if I go on a losing streak, that's my fault. It's not the matchmakers fault, it's not the MMR, it's not the SR, it's because I didn't play well enough. So please, Blizzard, tell me why that is.

I want to see a breakdown of - Was my accuracy worse than the average player? Was my number of eliminations lower? Was my damage blocked too little? Was my healing not on par with the "norm"?

If you're going to use my INDIVIDUAL SR to put me in a group of teammates that the system considers "equal" yet I only gain or lose SR depending on if the TEAM wins or loses. Then please, tell me exactly what I did to cause that loss so that I can work on it. Or tell me what I did to cause that win, so that I can continue doing it.


We're playing a competitive game but we don't know the rules based on which we are scored and those on which the matches are made. It doesn't make any sense!

Like playing pro chess or go, but not telling the players the rules on which you rank them and match them.
because its a sham and they know it.

They say its a team game however its actually still based on performance.
02/08/2018 01:24 AMPosted by RabidSponge
I suppose the title says it all, but I'm genuinely curious as to why they refuse to tell us why we gained what we gained or lost what we lost. All we literally know is "You lost a match, so you lose SR." and "You won a match, so you gain SR"

Why is it that at the end of a match I can't see myself compared to the other average players of that hero on that map, with a breakdown of everything I did compared to the average player.

I want to know what I'm doing wrong. Because apparently if I go on a losing streak, that's my fault. It's not the matchmakers fault, it's not the MMR, it's not the SR, it's because I didn't play well enough. So please, Blizzard, tell me why that is.

I want to see a breakdown of - Was my accuracy worse than the average player? Was my number of eliminations lower? Was my damage blocked too little? Was my healing not on par with the "norm"?

If you're going to use my INDIVIDUAL SR to put me in a group of teammates that the system considers "equal" yet I only gain or lose SR depending on if the TEAM wins or loses. Then please, tell me exactly what I did to cause that loss so that I can work on it. Or tell me what I did to cause that win, so that I can continue doing it.


they systems to easy to exploit as is. like we don't even know the correct algorithm, we just have theory crafted an idea of it based on info we have been given, yet its still super exploitable in multiple ways. I can exploit it to help me climb I can exploit it to de rank or I can exploit it to maintain rank. its really not hard at all. granted its not a precise system but gernerally its not hard to do any of these things based of the basic knowledge weve already been given, if we knew the algorithm we would be able to exploit it much easyier.
Transparency would be nice, it is true.
I would suggest first fixing the !@#$%^- career profile stats.
02/08/2018 07:25 AMPosted by ZomaWon
02/08/2018 01:24 AMPosted by RabidSponge
I suppose the title says it all, but I'm genuinely curious as to why they refuse to tell us why we gained what we gained or lost what we lost. All we literally know is "You lost a match, so you lose SR." and "You won a match, so you gain SR"

Why is it that at the end of a match I can't see myself compared to the other average players of that hero on that map, with a breakdown of everything I did compared to the average player.

I want to know what I'm doing wrong. Because apparently if I go on a losing streak, that's my fault. It's not the matchmakers fault, it's not the MMR, it's not the SR, it's because I didn't play well enough. So please, Blizzard, tell me why that is.

I want to see a breakdown of - Was my accuracy worse than the average player? Was my number of eliminations lower? Was my damage blocked too little? Was my healing not on par with the "norm"?

If you're going to use my INDIVIDUAL SR to put me in a group of teammates that the system considers "equal" yet I only gain or lose SR depending on if the TEAM wins or loses. Then please, tell me exactly what I did to cause that loss so that I can work on it. Or tell me what I did to cause that win, so that I can continue doing it.


they systems to easy to exploit as is. like we don't even know the correct algorithm, we just have theory crafted an idea of it based on info we have been given, yet its still super exploitable in multiple ways. I can exploit it to help me climb I can exploit it to de rank or I can exploit it to maintain rank. its really not hard at all. granted its not a precise system but gernerally its not hard to do any of these things based of the basic knowledge weve already been given, if we knew the algorithm we would be able to exploit it much easyier.


I've heard that "It's too easy to exploit" argument before, but honestly I've never seen an argument/proof of /how/ to exploit it. Outside of one-tricking to boost your performance based SR (which was recently removed), how exactly can you exploit the system to climb? And if it's that easily exploitable, why aren't there more videos/threads about it explaining how to do it?
The game looks at stat averages compared to yours.
The game looks at the enemy team SR/MMR compared to yours.
The game looks at how many times you died or how many kills you got or how much value out of your abilities you had compared to the enemy team.

So there you go. If you're better than them and better than the average player you're good.
Your performance is directly affected by the performance of your team and enemy. Here are a few scenarios:

- Your Mercy is amazing in general. Your team is destroying the other team to the point of spawn camping. You have little to no opportunity to heal. The system thinks you had a bad game. MMR hit.

- Your Widow is mediocre at best. Your tanks are dominating the other team, controlling their positioning and mobility. You feel no pressure and can just stand there getting picks. You have a great game because of your team, MMR boost.

- You are tanking and doing the right thing by going for the point and creating openings for your team. Your healer decides to go into DPS mode and leave you running for health packs. The system sees this as a lack of contribution on your part and you take an MMR hit.

This is a team game with objectives. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, SR is a reward/penalty. You want to gain. It feels ok losing if you had a good game, and I get that the devs are intending to make matches 50/50, but the way they hit 50/50 is not OK. Teaming a high MMR with low MMR together intentionally frustrates everyone and keeps them around the same SR.

If you are at my SR, then theoretically, you are my equal. Not sure why we have to have a behind the scenes number dictating probability. Use SR and only SR. Pick the first 12 people queued in the SR range and we'd all have 5 second queues and get to the right SR.
02/08/2018 07:47 AMPosted by LizardKing
The game looks at stat averages compared to yours.
The game looks at the enemy team SR/MMR compared to yours.
The game looks at how many times you died or how many kills you got or how much value out of your abilities you had compared to the enemy team.

So there you go. If you're better than them and better than the average player you're good.


I don't think anyone is arguing that those things factor into the calculations, but what exactly is "the average player"?
they have given some info. i mean you can feel free to watch videos, but in the end most systems are bad. no its not so much their property rights, its because they know people will exploit it more then it already is. trust me who would want to steal such a crap system. it has had issues since the start and was supposed to evolve to get better. but literally has not really gotten that much better. Honestly i would care less if they just fixed most of the issues they created by taking away avoid this player. i have complained since they took it out and watched as the entire community got more toxic. people had a way to at least never see the same cheater, troll,thrower, griefer ever again in their games, gave them hope for the comp nature of the game, sure that game was a waste, but every game after that one they know they will not have to deal with that person.

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