huge flaw with reaper's design

General Discussion
Reaper is a hero with no range but is supposed to be a powerhouse at CQC.

the problem here is that almost every DPS is good at close range. junkrat, tracer, genji, soldier, mccree, hanzo, sombra, doomfist, bastion, d.va, roadhog, etc. all these heroes are not only good at CQC but either have mobility or can do ranged damage on top of it. Reaper lacks either of these.

sure, you can say that Reaper is the best at close range. correct, but by how great a margin? and does it compensate for the fact that he has no range at all? in my opinion, it does not.

if you're going to design a character good at close quarters and nothing else, then he needs to be REALLY GOOD at CQC, or at least have mobility to get close to people. especially in a game where almost every other hero excels in CQC.

there are so many heroes who are both strong in both medium and close quarters engagements that can easily duel and even kill Reaper in close quarters, which is supposed to be the one thing he's good at

when I play soldier, I can't help but feel bad when reaper is 5 meters away unloading on me but I kill him with a small burst to the head and a helix. his hitbox is a joke. his extra 50 HP doesn't make him better suited for close ranged combat, all it does is compensate for his massive hitbox. he might as well be a 200 HP hero with a normal hitbox.

please give him either more mobility, more survivability or more damage.
CQC is only partially what Reaper specializes in. More specifically, he's designed to demolish tanks very quickly relative to the rest of the game's cast.
02/12/2018 11:38 AMPosted by Skyfoogle
when I play soldier, I can't help but feel bad when reaper is 5 meters away unloading on me but I kill him with a small burst to the head and a helix.
I think that's partly to do with how overtuned Soldier is, mainly the Helix rocket ending fights pretty cheaply. A fair comparison would be primaries only: Soldier should be winning more ranged fights by an accuracy advantage, Reaper should be winning more close-range fights by a pure DPS advantage.
02/12/2018 11:42 AMPosted by Synaptic
CQC is only partially what Reaper specializes in. More specifically, he's designed to demolish tanks very quickly relative to the rest of the game's cast.

and reaper fails at this role because there are heroes who can tankbust better and with more mobility and sustain. tracer is a much better tankbuster as she can get close to tanks with ease and deal 240 DPS, just a little bit under Reaper's DPS.

there's a reason why Reaper isn't run to counter quad tank comps. you're better off with soldier, tracer or hog.
The actual issue with Reaper is that his E is useless mid-fight, and that Roadhog oneshots him.
Like Roadhog is still better at reaping than Reaper.
Reaper still has an unused alt-fire button.
He's got shotguns.
Why not make his alt-fire shoot slugs instead of buckshot?
Balance out the rate of fire, ammo consumption, and damage so Reaper can occasionally be a serious threat to something 20+ meters away.
I can tell you one thing that would make him MUCH more viable that isn't even a crazy change. Make his teleport almost instant if not instant, and make him teleport QUIETLY...and not announce, "ENEMY TEAM, I'M UP HERE, AND MY ULTIMATE IS CLEARLY READY."
I wish he had Moira's Fade or at least something faster and more useful during a fight.
Isn't he supposed to be tank killer or something?
Why are you soloing a soldier with him?
02/12/2018 11:50 AMPosted by Skyfoogle
02/12/2018 11:42 AMPosted by Synaptic
CQC is only partially what Reaper specializes in. More specifically, he's designed to demolish tanks very quickly relative to the rest of the game's cast.

and reaper fails at this role because there are heroes who can tankbust better and with more mobility and sustain. tracer is a much better tankbuster as she can get close to tanks with ease and deal 240 DPS, just a little bit under Reaper's DPS.

there's a reason why Reaper isn't run to counter quad tank comps. you're better off with soldier, tracer or hog.


No, Tracer does nothing to tanks. An informed player would pick Reaper/Pharah.

The problem with Reaper against 4 tanks is that he needs just as much protection from his team as the tanks give eachother. Moira healing into a tank with a Zarya bubble/or take a breather, or moving in and out of a 900 hp shield means that his damage is going to be "mitigated". Your team should be pumping just as much support into reaper as the tanks are giving eachother. You should have A Rein shielding reaper. Bubbling Reaper/ not Rein. Bodyblocking Reaper when you can. Moira/zen healing reaper specifically. Lucio boosting Reaper.

In online games, its rare for teams to work that well together and know what needs to be done. Whether you go Reaper or Pharah into quad tank, its going to be a battle of Attrition. You should be ready to fight a longer than average battle, and keep ur squishies protected. Otherwise, why and how on earth do you expect reaper to shutdown 2000+ worth of HP and armor from enemy tanks.

EDIT - There's a reason why last year in triple tank meta Tracer wasn't a good pick.... It wasn't just Ana shutting Tracer down. If you pick any DPS into quad tank, you're probably going to feel like you're not contributing anything. I don't know why you wouldn't expect to need to pocket your reaper/pharah HARD into quad tank.
If reaper had any form of reliable mobility he would be insane, he would also be a sidegrade tracer 2.0 with shotguns.

He's really niche, but generally fine. I find him boring to play, and agree that almost anything I'm doing could or would be done better by someone else. But it is a unique playstyles of finding those openings, getting in for murder and getting out alive.

Was on him other day and thought that a survivability passive might be a good direction. Something like less bullet dmg cause he's a ghost boi, and explosives/blatant magic/energy weapons are the same. Just spitballing.
His gap closer and escape share a cooldown and his escape relies on his opponent not just following him.

Shadowstep. That is all.

He's expected to be a tank buster, but a Tracer or Soldier who can reliably land head shots can do comparable damage with better mobility, range, and survivability. He is a niche hero who's niche is overtaken by generalists.

His guns look devestating on paper, but require your opponent to let you to get close enough to deal that damage. As for his gap closer, refer to first point.

He's a poor flanker as his foot steps and all of his abilities are loud, slow, and flashy. His health is relatively low for how big his hit box is, and his new passive can't really make up for it as it requires him to land all of his bullets (which have insane spread) to get much good out of it.

His ult only gets easier to counter as you climb ladder.

All this adds up to a character that sounds amazingly powerful on paper, but ends up being extremely underwhelming as he is very predictable and does not excel in any area that someone else cannot fill. He is a character who relies on his opponents being inexperienced, meaning he can only get worse as his opponents get better, and there is little the player can do to counteract this.
02/12/2018 11:54 AMPosted by HANA
Isn't he supposed to be tank killer or something?
Why are you soloing a soldier with him?
I mean, you are probably better off doing that instead of killing Roadhog, since Soldier only has 200 hp and not 600+300.

02/12/2018 11:57 AMPosted by Arx
02/12/2018 11:50 AMPosted by Skyfoogle
...
and reaper fails at this role because there are heroes who can tankbust better and with more mobility and sustain. tracer is a much better tankbuster as she can get close to tanks with ease and deal 240 DPS, just a little bit under Reaper's DPS.

there's a reason why Reaper isn't run to counter quad tank comps. you're better off with soldier, tracer or hog.


No, Tracer does nothing to tanks. An informed player would pick Reaper/Pharah.

The problem with Reaper against 4 tanks is that he needs just as much protection from his team as the tanks give eachother. Moira healing into a tank with a Zarya bubble/or take a breather, or moving in and out of a 900 hp shield means that his damage is going to be "mitigated". Your team should be pumping just as much support into reaper as the tanks are giving eachother. You should have A Rein shielding reaper. Bubbling Reaper/ not Rein. Bodyblocking Reaper when you can. Moira/zen healing reaper specifically. Lucio boosting Reaper.

In online games, its rare for teams to work that well together and know what needs to be done. Whether you go Reaper or Pharah into quad tank, its going to be a battle of Attrition. You should be ready to fight a longer than average battle, and keep ur squishies protected. Otherwise, why and how on earth do you expect reaper to shutdown 2000+ worth of HP and armor from enemy tanks.
Tracer has a very high dps actually once the armor is gone. (Which is an issue for Reaper too...)
Pharah? I mean, Reinhardt can't hit her, but that's about it. Pharah is a character whose strength is killing squishies in 2 shots, not tank busting.
02/12/2018 11:42 AMPosted by Synaptic
More specifically, he's designed to demolish tanks

how? he cant stop tank meta.
02/12/2018 11:42 AMPosted by Synaptic
CQC is only partially what Reaper specializes in. More specifically, he's designed to demolish tanks very quickly relative to the rest of the game's cast.


This right here. Not only can he obliterate most heroes with one well-placed shot, he can tear through the biggest health pools much faster than any other CQC hero, and sustain himself while doing it. Furthermore, he has little competition for this role with Roadhog being the only other comparable hero, who Reaper counters.
02/12/2018 11:38 AMPosted by Skyfoogle
you can say that Reaper is the best at close range.


Even that's debatable. Tracer or Junkrat are just as deadly in close range as Reaper.

02/12/2018 11:38 AMPosted by Skyfoogle
please give him either more mobility, more survivability or more damage.


Regardless, they need to fix Shadow Step. Right now, it's an awfully-designed ability that should have never made it out of Alpha.

This right here. Not only can he obliterate most heroes with one well-placed shot, he can tear through the biggest health pools much faster than any other CQC hero, and sustain himself while doing it. Furthermore, he has little competition for this role with Roadhog being the only other comparable hero, who Reaper counters.


If he's so strong, then explain his very low pickrate in tournaments and his position as a hero in F tier.
02/12/2018 12:07 PMPosted by SlayerAdam
02/12/2018 11:54 AMPosted by HANA
Isn't he supposed to be tank killer or something?
Why are you soloing a soldier with him?
I mean, you are probably better off doing that instead of killing Roadhog, since Soldier only has 200 hp and not 600+300.

02/12/2018 11:57 AMPosted by Arx
...

No, Tracer does nothing to tanks. An informed player would pick Reaper/Pharah.

The problem with Reaper against 4 tanks is that he needs just as much protection from his team as the tanks give eachother. Moira healing into a tank with a Zarya bubble/or take a breather, or moving in and out of a 900 hp shield means that his damage is going to be "mitigated". Your team should be pumping just as much support into reaper as the tanks are giving eachother. You should have A Rein shielding reaper. Bubbling Reaper/ not Rein. Bodyblocking Reaper when you can. Moira/zen healing reaper specifically. Lucio boosting Reaper.

In online games, its rare for teams to work that well together and know what needs to be done. Whether you go Reaper or Pharah into quad tank, its going to be a battle of Attrition. You should be ready to fight a longer than average battle, and keep ur squishies protected. Otherwise, why and how on earth do you expect reaper to shutdown 2000+ worth of HP and armor from enemy tanks.
Tracer has a very high dps actually once the armor is gone. (Which is an issue for Reaper too...)
Pharah? I mean, Reinhardt can't hit her, but that's about it. Pharah is a character whose strength is killing squishies in 2 shots, not tank busting.


Pharah doesn't tank bust...... Pharah lays down consistent damage untargetted. You whittle down the enemy over time in a battle of attrition. Where the enemy team CAN'T touch you because they're quad tank..... I mean having to explain this to plats and not understanding this simple strategy.... You have a nearly uncontested DPS.
02/12/2018 12:08 PMPosted by Krikenemp
02/12/2018 11:42 AMPosted by Synaptic
CQC is only partially what Reaper specializes in. More specifically, he's designed to demolish tanks very quickly relative to the rest of the game's cast.


This right here. Not only can he obliterate most heroes with one well-placed shot, he can tear through the biggest health pools much faster than any other CQC hero, and sustain himself while doing it. Furthermore, he has little competition for this role with Roadhog being the only other comparable hero, who Reaper counters.
No he doesn't. 1 hook and Reaper is dead.
02/12/2018 12:10 PMPosted by Arx
02/12/2018 12:07 PMPosted by SlayerAdam
...I mean, you are probably better off doing that instead of killing Roadhog, since Soldier only has 200 hp and not 600+300.

...Tracer has a very high dps actually once the armor is gone. (Which is an issue for Reaper too...)
Pharah? I mean, Reinhardt can't hit her, but that's about it. Pharah is a character whose strength is killing squishies in 2 shots, not tank busting.


Pharah doesn't tank bust...... Pharah lays down consistent damage untargetted. You whittle down the enemy over time in a battle of attrition. Where the enemy team CAN'T touch you because they're quad tank..... I mean having to explain this to plats and not understanding this simple strategy.... You have a nearly uncontested DPS.
Dva > Pharah.
Also I'm master.
02/12/2018 12:12 PMPosted by SlayerAdam
02/12/2018 12:08 PMPosted by Krikenemp
...

This right here. Not only can he obliterate most heroes with one well-placed shot, he can tear through the biggest health pools much faster than any other CQC hero, and sustain himself while doing it. Furthermore, he has little competition for this role with Roadhog being the only other comparable hero, who Reaper counters.
No he doesn't. 1 hook and Reaper is dead.


Its a good think D.Va and Zarya can protect against 1-shots..... not to count the infinite amount of knockback skills that can disrupt his 1-shot mechanic...

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