huge flaw with reaper's design

General Discussion
i dunno maybe if his lifesteal are not so pathetic

like maybe try 30% lifesteal? so he can sustain better against tank
02/12/2018 12:14 PMPosted by Arx
02/12/2018 12:12 PMPosted by SlayerAdam
...No he doesn't. 1 hook and Reaper is dead.


Its a good think D.Va and Zarya can protect against 1-shots..... not to count the infinite amount of knockback skills that can disrupt his 1-shot mechanic...
I mean, if you are using tanks to counter another tank, you are doing it right, I can't blame you there.
But that doesn't make Reaper a Roadhog counter.
02/12/2018 12:14 PMPosted by SlayerAdam
02/12/2018 12:10 PMPosted by Arx
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Pharah doesn't tank bust...... Pharah lays down consistent damage untargetted. You whittle down the enemy over time in a battle of attrition. Where the enemy team CAN'T touch you because they're quad tank..... I mean having to explain this to plats and not understanding this simple strategy.... You have a nearly uncontested DPS.
Dva > Pharah.
Also I'm master.


Its a good thing that Pharah is usually a part of Pharmercy. I didn't think i'd have to explain that to you too. The only time a D.Va takes out Pharmercy is with a bomb. Thanks, goodnight.
As somewhat of a Reaper main, I can tell you one key to Reaper is to do "quick flanks". This consists of a sneaky teleport (many spots you have to learn on each map), picking off one or more enemies from behind -- especially healers and tanks (and distract the rest of them while your team pushes from the front), and then using wraith form to escape back into the cover of your team's shield tank. It's kind of similar to Sombra's playstyle, except that Reaper can be played more aggressively due to the self-heal and does way more damage quicker at close range than Sombra. Also, Reaper's shotguns are more consistent than Junkrat's grenade launcher.
Could just give him a grenade launcher like he had in the trailer.
I mean, you are probably better off doing that instead of killing Roadhog, since Soldier only has 200 hp and not 600+300.

The tanks are hard to miss targets so you will be getting selfhealed for most of your shots.
Reaper isn't a CQC specialist, he's an anti-tank specialist, and he's great at it. That said, he still can beat basically any DPS at close range.

My very last game I was playing DPS. Started Pharah, later swapped to Soldier. Was doing decent, but the enemy team started diving me so hard and focusing me. Consistently having 2 or 3 people on me every fight.

So I just swapped to Reaper near the end. Not only did I counter the Winston/D.Va, but the Genji who constantly wanted to dive me too? No longer a problem. They could no longer just dive-bomb me, and my team won. Easy.

***********************************

Reaper is a great example of an actually niche hero. He has clear cases where he is very strong and very weak. He's with Reinhardt and McCree has "heroes that don't need buffs".
02/12/2018 12:15 PMPosted by SlayerAdam
02/12/2018 12:14 PMPosted by Arx
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Its a good think D.Va and Zarya can protect against 1-shots..... not to count the infinite amount of knockback skills that can disrupt his 1-shot mechanic...
I mean, if you are using tanks to counter another tank, you are doing it right, I can't blame you there.
But that doesn't make Reaper a Roadhog counter.


Its a team game, its more about soft counters than hard counters. Reaper would be the hero to kill Roadhog the fastest if his aim is pretty good. I'm not saying Reaper couldn't use a small buff of sorts, however, this game would have like 0 hard counters outside of reaper/winston otherwise.

Reaps is a tankbuster but Mei is used to disrupt tanks as an anti-tank measure as well. Take tanks 1 or 2 at a time and they aren't a big deal.
They should speed up wraith form. It FEELS like it's too slow and is supposed to be faster.

At least that's my observation everytime I use Reaper.

And then lowering the CD on teleport would be good too. It's as situational ability as is so giving it a long CD just feels unnecessary. When you're trying to get somewhere I find I'm waiting on an arbitrary cooldown more than seems reasonable. It's not like anyone is using it to engage. They're using it to set up an ultimate or get to a flank route.
02/12/2018 11:57 AMPosted by Arx
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and reaper fails at this role because there are heroes who can tankbust better and with more mobility and sustain. tracer is a much better tankbuster as she can get close to tanks with ease and deal 240 DPS, just a little bit under Reaper's DPS.

there's a reason why Reaper isn't run to counter quad tank comps. you're better off with soldier, tracer or hog.


No, Tracer does nothing to tanks. An informed player would pick Reaper/Pharah.

The problem with Reaper against 4 tanks is that he needs just as much protection from his team as the tanks give eachother. Moira healing into a tank with a Zarya bubble/or take a breather, or moving in and out of a 900 hp shield means that his damage is going to be "mitigated". Your team should be pumping just as much support into reaper as the tanks are giving eachother. You should have A Rein shielding reaper. Bubbling Reaper/ not Rein. Bodyblocking Reaper when you can. Moira/zen healing reaper specifically. Lucio boosting Reaper.

In online games, its rare for teams to work that well together and know what needs to be done. Whether you go Reaper or Pharah into quad tank, its going to be a battle of Attrition. You should be ready to fight a longer than average battle, and keep ur squishies protected. Otherwise, why and how on earth do you expect reaper to shutdown 2000+ worth of HP and armor from enemy tanks.

EDIT - There's a reason why last year in triple tank meta Tracer wasn't a good pick.... It wasn't just Ana shutting Tracer down. If you pick any DPS into quad tank, you're probably going to feel like you're not contributing anything. I don't know why you wouldn't expect to need to pocket your reaper/pharah HARD into quad tank.
As a tank main, given the choice between dealing with Reaper and Tracer, I would definitely fight Reaper. At least with Reaper you have some level of counter play. "Favor the defender" with Tracer makes it impossible to hit her, her burst damage is greater, and even if you do manage to deal some damage to her she replenishes it with Recall. At least Reaper has to reliably hit you to gain health back and isn't retardedly difficult to hit.
I use Reaper a lot. Teleport? Yep, is clumsy, but is extremely good for repositioning before an ambush. My problem (not a big problem), is with Wraith Form. Speed doesn't make such difference, you cannot cancel it and well, I keep thinking that it should work like in the Recall Short, allowing him to move both horizontally AND vertically, so he can chase snipers or other priority target.
If this is too much, give him a 0.25 second wraith-form blink (as an ALT FIRE) on a 8-10 seconds cooldown, it would be awesome to go behind the tank/genji/tracer and bring the pain :3

I mean, I still think he is extremely balanced (some hard counter, a lot of soft one), but I also think that right now, being balanced, is a huge malus in this game.
...

No, Tracer does nothing to tanks. An informed player would pick Reaper/Pharah.

The problem with Reaper against 4 tanks is that he needs just as much protection from his team as the tanks give eachother. Moira healing into a tank with a Zarya bubble/or take a breather, or moving in and out of a 900 hp shield means that his damage is going to be "mitigated". Your team should be pumping just as much support into reaper as the tanks are giving eachother. You should have A Rein shielding reaper. Bubbling Reaper/ not Rein. Bodyblocking Reaper when you can. Moira/zen healing reaper specifically. Lucio boosting Reaper.

In online games, its rare for teams to work that well together and know what needs to be done. Whether you go Reaper or Pharah into quad tank, its going to be a battle of Attrition. You should be ready to fight a longer than average battle, and keep ur squishies protected. Otherwise, why and how on earth do you expect reaper to shutdown 2000+ worth of HP and armor from enemy tanks.

EDIT - There's a reason why last year in triple tank meta Tracer wasn't a good pick.... It wasn't just Ana shutting Tracer down. If you pick any DPS into quad tank, you're probably going to feel like you're not contributing anything. I don't know why you wouldn't expect to need to pocket your reaper/pharah HARD into quad tank.
As a tank main, given the choice between dealing with Reaper and Tracer, I would definitely fight Reaper. At least with Reaper you have some level of counter play. "Favor the defender" with Tracer makes it impossible to hit her, her burst damage is greater, and even if you do manage to deal some damage to her she replenishes it with Recall. At least Reaper has to reliably hit you to gain health back and isn't retardedly difficult to hit.


She may be hard to kill as a tank, but she shouldn't be killing you either. Tracer isn't a tank killer. she is there to harass supports not tanks.
02/12/2018 12:24 PMPosted by Arx
02/12/2018 12:15 PMPosted by SlayerAdam
...I mean, if you are using tanks to counter another tank, you are doing it right, I can't blame you there.
But that doesn't make Reaper a Roadhog counter.


Its a team game, its more about soft counters than hard counters. Reaper would be the hero to kill Roadhog the fastest if his aim is pretty good. I'm not saying Reaper couldn't use a small buff of sorts, however, this game would have like 0 hard counters outside of reaper/winston otherwise.

Reaps is a tankbuster but Mei is used to disrupt tanks as an anti-tank measure as well. Take tanks 1 or 2 at a time and they aren't a big deal.
That's doing to work in a meta revolving around tanks grouping up for insane aoe heals.
Especially when you lose 1 on 1 to begin with.
Here are some Reaper ideas I have that might be interesting. For consideration, ideas, wishful thinking.

[Wraith Form]

Right now wraith form has two weaknesses:
It isn't a very great escape unless you are close to your allies because it has a very set timing and very obvious tells
It's not a great engage ability and using it to engage leaves reaper vulnerable

-greatly increase speed and reduce duration to make it a more viable escape in exchange for sacrificing some defensive potential against ultimates with duration
-allow it to be toggled off with a short and obvious wind-down sound and delay to allow reaper to have more say in when he can re-engage
-keep it the same except the wraith form drains health from enemies reaper touches allowing it to be used as another sustain ability and make enemies less prone to chasting reaper to finish him the moment his invulnerability drops. This will also make it into a viable engage.
-allow reaper to travel through the air while using this ability to allow for more interesting engages and disengages and mobility options
-make reaper dead silent except for activation and deactivation sounds

[Shadow Step]

It's loud, janky to aim, and too slow to be an escape or engage, Reaper's gothy escalator is a move that seems very at odds with his kit as it leaves him extremely vulnerable. It allow him to gain verticality provided there's a ledge and it has a minor pro in the stealth department that unlike tracer or genji Shadow Step doesn't instantly mark the space between position A and B making it difficult to spot where he ends up if he starts outside line of sight.

-Making it quieter would go a long way to making this ability more useful. Perhaps limit its audio tell to enemies within 5 meters of the destination?
-Instead of using a marker to sight a destination perhaps reaper can instead create flying or wall-climbing fast-moving short-lived invisible controlled spotter projectile like junk's tire that would allow reaper to move around corners. The duration, speed and no option to abort would make Reaper's teleports unsafe and the casting times would be kept the same with the same tells. This would allow the ability to provide much more flexible mobility.
-A simple 50% damage reduction during the casting animations like Hog's heal or possibly 1 second of wraith form just after coming out of the teleport.
-Instead of a loud, obvious, high-risk and clumsy flanking ability Shadow Step could allow reaper to instead transport himself to an ally within range, giving him the option to rejoin the frey after a bout of flanking. This would not require line of sight and have a casting interface similar to Ana's nanoboost.
-Instead of a mobility power it can be a debuff he casts on an enemy similar to Zenyatta's orb of discord. Reaper targets an enemy, hits E and steps on their shadow. This ability needs an unbroken line of ground to work, just like earthshatter and its visual effect would be an extended black line of shadow between reaper and the target. While this is active the opponent is slowed and unable to jump or use movement abilities. Reaper can follow the shadow trail to track the enemy hero around corners but breaking line of sight for longer than two seconds breaks the ability. Breaking line of ground by either party getting launched, teleported, blocked by Mei walls or dropping off a ledge breaks the effect instantly. This would give Reaper an effective engagement ability that singles out a target to slow, chase, track and brutalize.
-Shadow Step could be an ability that makes Reaper swap places with a target. Needs line of sight for the duration of the casting, enemy sees a visual effect when they're targeted, doesn't work through barriers. This would be fun, though abusable and deadly with coordination.

[Hellfire Shotguns]

Reaper can potentially do great damage but the falloff and lack of engage make it difficult for him to be threatening outside of corners and hallways.

-A right-click ability that allows him to fire slugs carrying less punch but significantly lower drop-off and spread. They would not have pinpoint accuracy so Reaper would not suddenly become a part-time McCree but it would give him a better option at mid-far range.
-An alternate fire ability that shoots a smoke grenade. Reaper wears grenades, he uses them in the first animation, his guns clearly have grenade launcher barrels installed under the main ones. I don't want to give him helix rockets but an explosive projectile with a similar cooldown that does some damage on impact and a little damage in a small area of effect followed by leaving a persistent cloud that debuffs targets (halves healing, slows?) would give him both a ranged option and an ability that can be used to engage and chase.

[The Reaping]

Reaper's passive sustain is useful but I often feel it leaves something to be desired since it heals him for very little unless he's actively gun-punching a tank to death.

-Perhaps on a kill he gets a small, short bonus like a 1.5 second 15% speed buff or a refill of 2 ammo (one shell for each gun per soul taken) to give him more momentum in a brawl.
-Perhaps if Reaper takes out a target without taking damage he leaves behind a soul orb visible and usable by his team. How very altruistic of him.

[Death Blossom]
-Doesn't really and didn't really need any changes.

[Quality of Life & Misc]
-Perhaps Torbjorn should be able to pick up Reaper's last set of cast-off shotguns for very little (+1?) scrap if they have not despawned. Fella abhors waste.

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