Moira is balanced, stop post

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02/11/2018 09:40 PMPosted by Nullabutton
But doesn't Genji almost always have the initiative in vs Moira fights? i.e.; his kits offer him the luxury of choosing when and how to engage Moira? Isn't that good enough of an advantage?
moira's fade ability allows her to chase after genji if he attempts to use his kit to run away, it's almost as bad as reaper's wraith form
02/11/2018 09:05 AMPosted by BEERKNIGHT
genji taking the most skill in the game to play properly.

[/quote]

Genji is the EASIEST character in the entire game. What makes the game hard is how easily your character can be punished by mistakes. Genji has more abilities that forgive him for poor play than nearly any other character. If he gets into a poor engagement he can dash away, reflect damage to even the odds or buy time, wall climb away, double jump away. His game play is insanely forgiving on you for poor play.
02/11/2018 09:05 AMPosted by BEERKNIGHT
moira and genji fall on opposite sides of the skill spectrum, moira taking next to no skill while genji taking the most skill in the game to play properly.

if a new player picks moira they're at the very lowest end of the skill spectrum and they can still just destroy the best genji mains in the world because of how broken of a hero she is.

it's not low iq stuff, moira needs to be reworked to actually have a learning curve and if there should be a genji counter(which there shouldn't) it should require some skill to play


wah, someone counters my main. A character can stand up to your overpowered main. Get over it.
02/11/2018 09:05 AMPosted by BEERKNIGHT
moira and genji fall on opposite sides of the skill spectrum, moira taking next to no skill while genji taking the most skill in the game to play properly.

if a new player picks moira they're at the very lowest end of the skill spectrum and they can still just destroy the best genji mains in the world because of how broken of a hero she is.

it's not low iq stuff, moira needs to be reworked to actually have a learning curve and if there should be a genji counter(which there shouldn't) it should require some skill to play


Moira is not no skill, and Widow easily outclasses Genji when it comes to skill requirement

Also, there should be counters to every hero, especially the ones with overloaded kits and ease of use (cough Genji/Tracer)
There is a learning curve to Moira which is balancing dps and heals. Something a genji main doesn't need to know about.
02/12/2018 06:30 AMPosted by Krodgerdat
There is a learning curve to Moira which is balancing dps and heals. Something a genji main doesn't need to know about.


do you really mean to tell me that after having to manage dash as not to put yourself out of position and knowing when to use and not to use deflect, that a genji player would really struggle to play a hero with auto aim and manage their resources adequately?

do you know how stupid that sounds
Just my opinion but if you're an experienced player up against a new player who's still learning controls...wouldn't you have the upper hand automatically?

Besides, Moira's aim does require some precision. If her reticle is not on the enemy then she isn't doing damage. And with her only doing 50dps per second it takes a while to drain any enemy. Really she's great at finishing off low health enemies trying to retreat.

Her kit takes skill to use efficiently without putting yourself and your team in a bad spot. Balancing between healing and dps to replenish your healing can be a challenge if you get lost in the heat of the game and forget that hey, you should be healing instead of seeking out that kill. Knowing when to use the correct orb in the moment can be the difference in your team continuing the fight or your team having to fall back. And if you make a bad move with fade and you're in the midst of the enemy, all that focus fire should kill her. If no one on the enemy team realizes there's a Moira doing slow damage behind them then it's just bad communication and awareness.

And honestly, Genji can deflect most attacks in the game including ultimates so why is having a fourth character with a beam-type attack so bad for countering? Winston does well against Genji and so does Symmetra. Zarya and Moira have to have good tracking to take a Genji down.
02/12/2018 06:07 AMPosted by aba1
Genji is the EASIEST character in the entire game. What makes the game hard is how easily your character can be punished by mistakes. Genji has more abilities that forgive him for poor play than nearly any other character. If he gets into a poor engagement he can dash away, reflect damage to even the odds or buy time, wall climb away, double jump away. His game play is insanely forgiving on you for poor play.
sorry but no, he's the hardest hero in the game to get value out of end of story + moira herself is actually better at running away than genji because of her annoying fade ability
02/11/2018 09:05 AMPosted by BEERKNIGHT
if a new player picks moira they're at the very lowest end of the skill spectrum and they can still just destroy the best genji mains in the world


That's not true at all. Moira takes a decent amount of skill to play in competitive. Many Moira's either focus too much on damage and their team ends up dying, or focus too much on healing and then get starved of heals. She also needs a decent amount of tracking, especially with her ult.

A good Genji can still outplay a Moira, and an extremely good Genji player would destroy a new player on Moira. Genji can still win the fight if he gets in her face and lands headshots with his RMB. Assuming the new player would be standing still or moving in straight, predictable patterns, that wouldn't be all that hard.
02/12/2018 06:07 AMPosted by aba1
Genji is the EASIEST character in the entire game. What makes the game hard is how easily your character can be punished by mistakes. Genji has more abilities that forgive him for poor play than nearly any other character. If he gets into a poor engagement he can dash away, reflect damage to even the odds or buy time, wall climb away, double jump away. His game play is insanely forgiving on you for poor play.


A common misconception is that because Genji has a lot of escape tools, that he is therefore "easy". That isn't true. A bad Genji may not be dying, but he also will not be getting a lot of things done. A bad Genji won't be landing his shots, he wont be getting value out of his ultimate, and will instead just dash in and feed the enemy most of the time. Dash is used as an engage tool most of the time and if you use it to dive onto a target and you don't get the kill, it's pretty unlikely that you're going to get out alive.
02/12/2018 02:58 PMPosted by Xander
That's not true at all. Moira takes a decent amount of skill to play in competitive. Many Moira's either focus too much on damage and their team ends up dying, or focus too much on healing and then get starved of heals. She also needs a decent amount of tracking, especially with her ult.

A good Genji can still outplay a Moira, and an extremely good Genji player would destroy a new player on Moira. Genji can still win the fight if he gets in her face and lands headshots with his RMB. Assuming the new player would be standing still or moving in straight, predictable patterns, that wouldn't be all that hard.
This is pretty accurate. I picked up Moira because it felt nice to finally have Genji on the backfoot. And for a lot of QP Genji's (when the match maker is behaving), she's a challenge.

But then I get thrown against a good Genji and I quickly learn I cannot take anything for granted. That RMB+Dash can still insta kill you and he's still capable of taking off a good chunk of your health before you know he's there. Good Genji's are adapting and still being effective (they're picking their battles wisely) while bad ones just hit deflect and try and close the gap like she's any other DPS.

They argue that Tracer is a DPS skill check. I'd hazard Moira is Genji's skill check.
Came to see the dislikes. Not disappointed!
we should either buff genji or nerf moira, that is the obvious course of action
02/11/2018 09:05 AMPosted by BEERKNIGHT
it's not low iq stuff, moira needs to be reworked to actually have a learning curve and if there should be a genji counter(which there shouldn't) it should require some skill to play


There shouldn't?
"wah! WAAAH! Supports shouldn't defend themselves! Genji shouldn't have counters! WAAAAAAAAH!"
02/11/2018 09:05 AMPosted by BEERKNIGHT
moira and genji fall on opposite sides of the skill spectrum, moira taking next to no skill while genji taking the most skill in the game to play properly.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You're funny.

Spamming double jump, RMB, and getting free kills with your freight car sized hitboxes is super hard.

02/11/2018 09:05 AMPosted by BEERKNIGHT
if a new player picks moira they're at the very lowest end of the skill spectrum and they can still just destroy the best genji mains in the world because of how broken of a hero she is.


Or not... Because a decent Genji can still destroy a Moira. Suck less.

02/11/2018 09:05 AMPosted by BEERKNIGHT
it's not low iq stuff, moira needs to be reworked to actually have a learning curve and if there should be a genji counter(which there shouldn't) it should require some skill to play


This is the most cancerous thing I've ever heard.
02/11/2018 09:14 AMPosted by 鬥陣特攻
you don't need skill to become a "okay" genji

just jumping around, dashing and climbing = instant pain in the !@# for the enemy team
yeah but, you aren't doing anything, any players that aren't in say in bronze,silver,gold and some even in plat (which I know is most of the players) would just ignore genji as he does great things to help his team like, run, jump, climb, jump again
02/11/2018 09:05 AMPosted by BEERKNIGHT
if there should be a genji counter(which there shouldn't)
lol
look, I get both sides, genji mains getting annoyed a healer can be more horizontally mobile than them, slight aim help and an ORB THAT KILLS YOU FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF THE DAMN MAP. (sorry I just hate that orb with a passion) anyway, but on the other side, moira is a hero great to defend against flankers and you can really do a lot has if you can play her well
02/11/2018 09:37 PMPosted by athena
Not everyone can be compared on the same mechanical aiming scale, moira's skill is more about multitasking, team position awareness, and managing resources
yeah huge multi tasking like: throw a healing or at your team and left click that danm flanker

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