Sombra not gaining ult charge from packs hurts ult economy

General Discussion
02/11/2018 05:45 AMPosted by Bla5t
02/11/2018 05:16 AMPosted by OWSaint

I really don't hack health packs for my teams healing. I do it for denial. If one of their flankers make it behind my team I have shutdown their healing access which means a retreat is the only option

Then, won't you have to hack every pack in your backline? If you're playing on Oasis fx. you would have like 4 packs to keep track off. I can only keep 1-2 hacked if I'm supposed to damage as well.


Of course not, you hack the key ones that are in the flank routes. This would be the same as its always been

For example, on Horizon B you would hack the large healthpack in the right hand corridor (from the defenders pov). That way the enemy tracer can't keep retreating to it for a full heal. Also your own flankers have access to it when your healers are busy keeping the tanks alive.

Sombra players who try to hack every health pack are woefully ineffective teammates.
02/11/2018 05:45 AMPosted by Bla5t
02/11/2018 05:16 AMPosted by OWSaint

I really don't hack health packs for my teams healing. I do it for denial. If one of their flankers make it behind my team I have shutdown their healing access which means a retreat is the only option

Then, won't you have to hack every pack in your backline? If you're playing on Oasis fx. you would have like 4 packs to keep track off. I can only keep 1-2 hacked if I'm supposed to damage as well.


1-2 packs is good. Trying to keep track of anymore than that and you are harming your own effectiveness. You are right...you will be too busy hacking packs and not shooting and hacking enemies.

You typically only need one, sometimes 2 packs, hacked near the point of contention.
02/11/2018 04:47 AMPosted by OWSaint
EMP is really easy to get now.

But this time you can get it from dealing damage and getting kills instead of running away.

Is there so few that play Sombra as an assassin in her current form?

I'm not talking about EMP farming, I'm talking about Sombras supports losing ult charge if anyone uses her healthpacks. If I wanted to keep being able to farm ult, I wouldn't have tried to suggest nerfing charge gain.

Please read the post before commenting.
02/11/2018 05:48 AMPosted by Cozy
You can still gain ult very very fast but actually hitting your targets now with a more consistent spread.

I haven't really noticed losing ult from packs at all.

I'm not talking about Sombra not gaining ult. I'm talking about the ult charge getting wasted if you use a pack.
Neither Sombra nor Sombras healer gets charged and but the enemy that dealt the damage did.
02/11/2018 04:53 AMPosted by Heavy
02/11/2018 04:47 AMPosted by OWSaint
Is there so few that play Sombra as an assassin in her current form?


It might be because that's not how she's supposed to be played currently. That might have something to do with it.

I think a lot of people are missing the point OP is making. The OP isn't concerned about Sombra's ult gain, but the ult gain of her supports. If teammates use Sombra's health packs, then that's a TON of potential healing a support could have done and gained ult with just... wasted. "Then don't pick up the health packs and let your supports heal you" is a bad response because it's horribly contradictory -- why would you not pick up the big health pack that is reserved JUST for your team with enhanced healing that your teammate set up for you? It's like if Soldier's Biotic Field didn't help him gain ult charge and thus encouraged players to not use it.

If this change does go through, they might need to rework the mechanics of hacked health packs. Maybe hacking a health pack just locks it in as your team's and has a fast reset, but doesn't do any enhanced healing. That way health packs are still being used and secured, but there's not as much healing ult charge being thrown away, not much more than usual when you use a health pack. The enhanced healing would be a sad loss, but honestly, considering that they're making hacking a lot faster and deadlier, I think that's a very small loss overall.


it's not a bad response. That's what might happen at lower ratings where people don't really have a good grasp on the game but at higher/pro it's clear that those packs will be taken by the rest only if your support already has the ulti/you're in really big danger/the support has low heal and the fight is about to start so you have to take the pack. Be creative when you play, be smarter, don't just say, oh it's a healthpack I have to take it, hero breaks the ult management of the supports.
That's why you tell your team to only use her packs in emergencies ando let their healers do their job. Main goal of hacking packs will be to deny them to the enemy
02/11/2018 05:05 AMPosted by Shippers
02/11/2018 04:47 AMPosted by OWSaint
EMP is really easy to get now.

But this time you can get it from dealing damage and getting kills instead of running away.

Is there so few that play Sombra as an assassin in her current form?


We are rare, but we are strong.

Nerfing EMP-bot Sombras and allowing people to play her in the more engaging, interesting and challenging offense role is an excellent idea imo


How will it affect her pick rate tho. Removing the easiest way to make use of her basically raised her skill floor even more didn't it.
I hack health packs to deny them to the enemy, not to heal my team.
OP, on one hand, you have a point. On the other, even now if you go heal yourself at a health pack and not by your healer, your healer won't gain ult charge. No one will gain ult charge.

I believe these changes won't so much affect ult economy as they'll remove a specific type of play - taking poke damage and farming hacked health packs in order to very quickly initiate with emp.

Hacking health packs will still retain its current function - denying them to the enemy and ensuring your flankers have them at their disposal when they're in a duel and need the healing but the healer isn't available. It's still a pretty big role even without the ult charge gain.
Thats a interesting discution right there. Sombras health packs makes supports heal less but, this happens on the current patch already. The point is, today, she is picked on 1 of the support slots, next patch she will be on a dps slot (possibly) with 2 healers on the team. Meaning she will get in the way of support ult economy with her packs. Hmm.... nice observation mate
I think the new Sombra changes are really good for her. The one thing I would change is that she (not the teammates) gains ult from packs she hacks, but even without that, the coming changes are really good.
I mean its a shuft in focus for sure. At lower ranks people barelg seem to have used my healthpacks so its nice that im incentivused to go for a more denial strategy. It hurts support ult economy a little but in the few games i had with it it didnt make much of a difference aince most people other than flankers seem to rely on supports for healing regardless. The ult generation felt a little slower but i was abpe to stay in sync with my dvas on ladder.
You know you can use health packs even if she doesn't hack them... so it hurts your team any time anyone uses them. Its part of the game from before Sombra.

These changes are going to make the unskilled EMP bots go away and leave us with Sombra the hacking assassin. It also makes tracking her Ult possible which is nice. Playing a guessing game of when the EMP bot will show up isn't fun to try to counter.
02/11/2018 08:32 AMPosted by FunkyPants
I think the new Sombra changes are really good for her. The one thing I would change is that she (not the teammates) gains ult from packs she hacks, but even without that, the coming changes are really good.


Nope, because in the current patch, I can brawl against an Enemy DVa in the room on the high ground above Point A on Temple of Anubis and still get charge on my Ult in 12 seconds flat from when I last used it to stop an early dive onto the point, because my friendly Roadhog filled me up by brawling on my mega in the room to the right of the choke within 20 seconds of the game starting... that's 2 EMP's charged within 60 seconds of the spawn doors opening.

In the current patch I throw out solo-EMP's to stop an enemy Tracer because I'm too lazy to translocate up and hack from above... or throw down an EMP to cancel Moira's Ult instead of translocating & hacking from behind. Sombra players right now are incredibly spoilt for Ult charge... I should know, I've never not had EMP when I've needed it.

I think there should still be some charge given for healing on a health pack, but nowhere near as much as you get now,
So don't use health packs if you don't need to.

Problem fixed.
Here’s the solution: rely on healing from the mercy right next to you instead of the health pack way away from the action
02/11/2018 07:41 AMPosted by Avondale
OP, on one hand, you have a point. On the other, even now if you go heal yourself at a health pack and not by your healer, your healer won't gain ult charge. No one will gain ult charge.

That's not true tho. Sombra would gain charge for her ult. Either Sombra gets charge or healer gets charge. Any potential ult charge goes to one or the other.
After the patch, if a teammate is one health and uses your pack, it saves his life yes but that charge also goes to waste.

I believe these changes won't so much affect ult economy as they'll remove a specific type of play - taking poke damage and farming hacked health packs in order to very quickly initiate with emp.

I guess you're right about that.
It eliminates the farm, but I can't help but feel like they could have achieved that with just a considerable nerf to the charge gained. Just to keep the economy flowing without dropping any charge.
02/11/2018 11:42 AMPosted by Bla5t
02/11/2018 07:41 AMPosted by Avondale
OP, on one hand, you have a point. On the other, even now if you go heal yourself at a health pack and not by your healer, your healer won't gain ult charge. No one will gain ult charge.

That's not true tho. Sombra would gain charge for her ult. Either Sombra gets charge or healer gets charge. Any potential ult charge goes to one or the other.

Missed the point.
Regular health pack.
Not hacked health pack.
No one gains ult charge from healing by a regular, unhacked health pack.

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