Do the devs only care about the pros anymore?

General Discussion
Recently, it feels like the developer team really doesn't care about a majority of the playerbase. They only care about their precious professional players.

Balances and nerfs are taken into consideration when the pros have the slightest problem with whatever hero.

Meanwhile, there's 20 Mei/Symmetra rework threads with 1k+ replies that are only even spoken about by the devs because ignoring them would be too obvious an example of them not caring.

It's just too blatant the favoritism that the Overwatch team displays for the pros. The actual playerbase is taken for fools and only gets the scraps that is the banquet of attention they feed pro players.
If they were balancing exclusively for pros they would actually have buffed Mei and Symmetra a long time ago, as they are clearly useless at that level.

The reason they haven't buffed them yet is because if they were viable at the pro level they would be extremely oppressive to the average player
1st: since when are Mei and Symmetra players even remotely considered part of the majority of the player base?

2nd: the recent Mercy and Junkrat nerfs were wanted by almost EVERYBODY, even some Mercy and Junk mains.

3rd: Mei and Symmetra are incredibly situational heroes. It's hard to make them popular because they are meant for one job. They cant do much without changing the essence and playstyle of the hero. Rather than complaining about a lack of changes, how about give an idea that would be a reasonable change that would both make the heroes perform better in all situations without making them overpowered in their specific niche?
They balance around the pros because the pro level is where balance actually matters the most.

You can climb out of silver by spinning in circles with Sym and holding M1. How do you balance around that? Nerf the worst character in the game even harder?

Sidenote: This isn't me exaggerating to !@#$ on silver players. I literally climbed out of Silver by playing only Sym, and I did nothing but wait in corners until fights started and then flank enemy supports. It was fun until it stopped working.
02/05/2018 04:57 PMPosted by Matthew
1st: since when are Mei and Symmetra players even remotely considered part of the majority of the player base?

2nd: the recent Mercy and Junkrat nerfs were wanted by almost EVERYBODY, even some Mercy and Junk mains.

3rd: Mei and Symmetra are incredibly situational heroes. It's hard to make them popular because they are meant for one job. They cant do much without changing the essence and playstyle of the hero. Rather than complaining about a lack of changes, how about give an idea that would be a reasonable change that would both make the heroes perform better in all situations without making them overpowered in their specific niche?

I'm not giving suggestions because people have done it way better than I have, and to much more attention. But the devs don't care, and that's my point.

The "Nerf Genji" argument has been going on so long, it's basically a meme at this point. I can't count how many threads have been made with a huge amount of replies that proposed any sort of fix to this character. There's even video evidence that show how broken his deflect ability is.

The dev team's reply to this?

"10/31/2017 09:00 AMPosted by Jeff Kaplan. We talk about all of the heroes all of the time here. Genji's not currently on our radar as being a balance problem."

And how curious it is that Genji along with Tracer (another hero with practically no counters that isn't being considered for balancing) are the two most popular DPS heroes among professional players, by a huge margin.

It doesn't look like a coincidence.
02/05/2018 05:04 PMPosted by ZSSenpai
They balance around the pros because the pro level is where balance actually matters the most.

You can climb out of silver by spinning in circles with Sym and holding M1. How do you balance around that? Nerf the worst character in the game even harder?

Sidenote: This isn't me exaggerating to !@#$ on silver players. I literally climbed out of Silver by playing only Sym, and I did nothing but wait in corners until fights started and then flank enemy supports. It was fun until it stopped working.
So the 0.01% of players are the balance team's benchmark for balances?

Doesn't seem like a smart move.
Lol I wish they catered more to pros, they absolutely love playing Doomfist and Ana yet both have been pretty terrible for a while.
02/05/2018 05:16 PMPosted by Gooby
02/05/2018 05:04 PMPosted by ZSSenpai
They balance around the pros because the pro level is where balance actually matters the most.

You can climb out of silver by spinning in circles with Sym and holding M1. How do you balance around that? Nerf the worst character in the game even harder?

Sidenote: This isn't me exaggerating to !@#$ on silver players. I literally climbed out of Silver by playing only Sym, and I did nothing but wait in corners until fights started and then flank enemy supports. It was fun until it stopped working.
So the 0.01% of players are the balance team's benchmark for balances?

Doesn't seem like a smart move.

They don't only balance around those players, otherwise they would buff Sym.

Your original post makes no sense. You say they only balance around the pros, then bring up the fact that they don't buff Mei/Sym, two characters who are kept bad because they balance around casual players, not the other way around.

Sym is kept bad because she's already a nightmare for players gold and below. Same with Mei, or do I need to bring up the "Mei is satan" meme that floats around every time Mei is remotely viable?

What your post should say, if your argument was consistent, is that Blizzard should nerf Sym in order to better accommodate casual players, because pros are only 0.01% of the playerbase, so it shouldn't matter that she's worse than garbage at that level.

What I was saying is that balancing for silver is nonsensical, because it would lead to nerfing the worst character in the game (Sym).
02/05/2018 04:53 PMPosted by blarneystone
If they were balancing exclusively for pros they would actually have buffed Mei and Symmetra a long time ago, as they are clearly useless at that level.

The reason they haven't buffed them yet is because if they were viable at the pro level they would be extremely oppressive to the average player

But both those heroes are considered F-tier at both levels of play. If they were balanced, wouldn't they be balanced at both levels, as well?
02/05/2018 05:16 PMPosted by Gooby
...So the 0.01% of players are the balance team's benchmark for balances?

Doesn't seem like a smart move.

They don't only balance around those players, otherwise they would buff Sym. Your post makes no sense. You say they only balance around the pros, then bring up the fact that they don't buff Mei/Sym, two characters who are kept bad because they balance around casual players, not the other way around.

Sym is kept bad because she's already a nightmare for players gold and below.
I never said they only balance around the pros. In fact, you said they should.

I said that they pay more attention to the pros, which they do. I only brought up Mei/Sym as an example of this.

Could I have used a better one? Probably, but my main point isn't "buff Mei/Sym". Everyone seems to get hung up on that.
02/05/2018 05:20 PMPosted by Gooby
02/05/2018 04:53 PMPosted by blarneystone
If they were balancing exclusively for pros they would actually have buffed Mei and Symmetra a long time ago, as they are clearly useless at that level.

The reason they haven't buffed them yet is because if they were viable at the pro level they would be extremely oppressive to the average player

But both those heroes are considered F-tier at both levels of play. If they were balanced, wouldn't they be balanced at both levels, as well?


Not without heavily changing a decent amount of the kit of the characters.

For Symm to become viable to the pro's without changing her kit a lot you'd probably have to buff her ult charge time pretty heavily which would be pretty darn oppressive. Symm's turrets and her M1 and M2 are destined to be poo at pro level play without heavily changing her kit/abilities or just buffing them to ridiculous levels where they'd completely dominate lower levels (imagine symm getting like a 30%+ DPS buff and imagine how that would affect bronze where people already say she does too much damage).

As for Mei fixing some of her bugs and then taking damage fall off, off of her M2 might help her in pro play though i honestly don't know for her the meta has changed quite heavily since she last saw pro play and at the time she was using her pre-nerf ult so rough guess I'd say buffing her ult again and then the bug fixes and M2 fall off fix would probably make her a bit viable, but the ult buff raised a !@#$ storm at lower level play last time it was buffed.

Mei and Symmetra are incredibly situational heroes. It's hard to make them popular because they are meant for one job.
give an idea that would be a reasonable change that would both make the heroes perform better in all situations without making them overpowered in their specific niche?


Please explain this niche. I would argue "A niche/situational hero is an event that doesn't come up often, but when does, said hero is the best for the job"
When is Mei EVER the best for ANY job?
02/05/2018 05:31 PMPosted by Tomduhtrain
02/05/2018 05:20 PMPosted by Gooby
...
But both those heroes are considered F-tier at both levels of play. If they were balanced, wouldn't they be balanced at both levels, as well?


Not without heavily changing a decent amount of the kit of the characters.

For Symm to become viable to the pro's without changing her kit a lot you'd probably have to buff her ult charge time pretty heavily which would be pretty darn oppressive. Symm's turrets and her M1 and M2 are destined to be poo at pro level play without heavily changing her kit/abilities or just buffing them to ridiculous levels where they'd completely dominate lower levels (imagine symm getting like a 30%+ DPS buff and imagine how that would affect bronze where people already say she does too much damage).

As for Mei fixing some of her bugs and then taking damage fall off, off of her M2 might help her in pro play though i honestly don't know for her the meta has changed quite heavily since she last saw pro play and at the time she was using her pre-nerf ult so rough guess I'd say buffing her ult again and then the bug fixes and M2 fall off fix would probably make her a bit viable, but the ult buff raised a !@#$ storm at lower level play last time it was buffed.

Yeah, I feel that the ship has sailed for these heroes to be balanced without pretty much completely reworking them.

It sucks that Mei/Sym have been ignored for so long. They're gonna take a lot of creativity to be made viable again.
02/05/2018 04:57 PMPosted by Matthew

2nd: the recent Mercy and Junkrat nerfs were wanted by almost EVERYBODY, even some Mercy and Junk mains.

[/quote]

He plays as if it were never even a nerf.
Blizzard needs to decide if they are in the market of selling Ferraris or Chevys.

Do you want to cater to the tiny, less than 1% of the market? Or do you want to be the place that sells to the mass market?

"You can't have your cake and it too" is a phrase made for situations like this. You need to pick what you want and go with that direction. PERIOD.
02/05/2018 05:39 PMPosted by AgtCooper
Blizzard needs to decide if they are in the market of selling Ferraris or Chevys.

Do you want to cater to the tiny, less than 1% of the market? Or do you want to be the place that sells to the mass market?

"You can't have your cake and it too" is a phrase made for situations like this. You need to pick what you want and go with that direction. PERIOD.

Or, you can be the dealership and deal in both, while your manufacturers provide the Ferraris and Chevys.

They should basically make two different versions of the game at this point.
02/05/2018 05:20 PMPosted by Gooby
02/05/2018 04:53 PMPosted by blarneystone
If they were balancing exclusively for pros they would actually have buffed Mei and Symmetra a long time ago, as they are clearly useless at that level.

The reason they haven't buffed them yet is because if they were viable at the pro level they would be extremely oppressive to the average player

But both those heroes are considered F-tier at both levels of play. If they were balanced, wouldn't they be balanced at both levels, as well?

The only reason that they’re considered F tier at lower levels is because people think that the pro meta applies to all levels of play. In reality if you’re playing at a level where aim is not strong and teams aren’t overly organized Mei and Sym have the potential to be very strong. If you buffed them without reworking them they would become crazy powerful at lower levels.
Anymore? They never cared about us. Just our money.
02/05/2018 05:16 PMPosted by Gooby
So the 0.01% of players are the balance team's benchmark for balances?

Doesn't seem like a smart move.


It's a profitable one.

02/06/2018 12:11 PMPosted by MaxPower
Anymore? They never cared about us. Just our money.


Pretty much.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum