Why Does Blizzard hate M&K? Have they used it?

General Discussion
This is really so we can get a blue post and final answer.

I have both and also play on PC. I very much enjoy a mouse and keyboard and they are not similar and one is clearly better than the other.

BUT

XIM's are not mouse and keyboard. They do a decent job mimicking it, but they are in no way anything like it. Your muscle memory doesn't translate and a controller is honestly better on console.

A few major reason.
Lag: There is a noticeable lag when using them.
Max sense: Even maxing everything out to 100 you will not get the twitchy reliable aiming people are complaining about. It maxes out way too quickly.
Weird curve + dead spot: the weird dead spots and curve make it very strange and not 1-1 movement

Have you guys ever actually used them?

Now full M&K support for console gaming would be awful. The nature of console gaming doesn't support because it's a couch game. That would be FAR worse than what we have now.
01/18/2018 06:01 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
01/18/2018 05:21 PMPosted by TinyTauren
considering that the number of Mouse and keyboard users is increasing, this game will just become the equivalent to moded lobbies in the old cod games. Seriously 1-2 in every match and you can report them but since the system is automated nothing will happen unless 99% of the earth's population reports them


Currently, we cannot do anything about players using input conversion devices to use Mouse and Keyboard on console.

However, we have put serious research and development against this problem and we're hoping to have a solution to what we consider to be unfair circumstances. This is a priority for us and we're trying to combat this through technology and policy.

We'll keep you informed on our progress and any policy changes as soon as they develop.

For now, please avoid reporting this behavior.

Final answer. Jeff says its unfair and theyre researching detection software to ban conversion software users.
Same reason that theres no 21:9 monitor support. I'm sure a lot of people around the office have it, but they don't want to support it because it gives an 'unfair advantage'
02/09/2018 08:24 AMPosted by KillLaChem
01/18/2018 06:01 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
...

Currently, we cannot do anything about players using input conversion devices to use Mouse and Keyboard on console.

However, we have put serious research and development against this problem and we're hoping to have a solution to what we consider to be unfair circumstances. This is a priority for us and we're trying to combat this through technology and policy.

We'll keep you informed on our progress and any policy changes as soon as they develop.

For now, please avoid reporting this behavior.

Final answer. Jeff says its unfair and theyre researching detection software to ban conversion software users.


But they clearly havn't used it or they would know how garbage it really is.
02/09/2018 08:24 AMPosted by KillLaChem
01/18/2018 06:01 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
...

Currently, we cannot do anything about players using input conversion devices to use Mouse and Keyboard on console.

However, we have put serious research and development against this problem and we're hoping to have a solution to what we consider to be unfair circumstances. This is a priority for us and we're trying to combat this through technology and policy.

We'll keep you informed on our progress and any policy changes as soon as they develop.

For now, please avoid reporting this behavior.

Final answer. Jeff says its unfair and theyre researching detection software to ban conversion software users.


But they clearly havn't used it or they would know how garbage it really is.

02/09/2018 08:26 AMPosted by mouz
Same reason that theres no 21:9 monitor support. I'm sure a lot of people around the office have it, but they don't want to support it because it gives an 'unfair advantage'


Not the same - it would be like running three monitors but the two side ones are running at 30hz.. with a .25m/s delay. sure it's "better" for some but for the masses it's not.
02/09/2018 09:02 AMPosted by AtlasTelamon
02/09/2018 08:24 AMPosted by KillLaChem
...
Final answer. Jeff says its unfair and theyre researching detection software to ban conversion software users.


But they clearly havn't used it or they would know how garbage it really is.

If it really is garbage then why do people use it and why does it plague the top 500 accounts. Not all 500 accounts use it but a lot of them do. It may not be God's gift to cheaters but its clearly an advantage.
02/09/2018 09:04 AMPosted by KillLaChem
02/09/2018 09:02 AMPosted by AtlasTelamon
...

But they clearly havn't used it or they would know how garbage it really is.

If it really is garbage then why do people use it and why does it plague the top 500 accounts. Not all 500 accounts use it but a lot of them do. It may not be God's gift to cheaters but its clearly an advantage.


Oh really? And how do you know this? (Someone told you and you believed it???)

Video or it didnt happen brah.
02/09/2018 09:02 AMPosted by AtlasTelamon
But they clearly havn't used it or they would know how garbage it really is.


If it's garbage then why are you fighting for it?
02/09/2018 08:24 AMPosted by KillLaChem
01/18/2018 06:01 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
...

Currently, we cannot do anything about players using input conversion devices to use Mouse and Keyboard on console.

However, we have put serious research and development against this problem and we're hoping to have a solution to what we consider to be unfair circumstances. This is a priority for us and we're trying to combat this through technology and policy.

We'll keep you informed on our progress and any policy changes as soon as they develop.

For now, please avoid reporting this behavior.

Final answer. Jeff says its unfair and theyre researching detection software to ban conversion software users.


The way I read it, Jeff says its not bannable or even reportable at all.

So game on!!

In short what you all need to realize is this is Blizzards creation, they blocked the native capability of the PS4 to use mouse and Keyboard inputs so people are using the designated work around intended for exactly these types of situations.

The solution is easy, add M/KB servers for PS4.

Let people opt in/out, just like some games let you opt in/out of playing cross platform.

You guys do know games like Fortnite do not block M/KB on PS4, and they also allow cross platform play with PC!

If we ever want a unified gaming community across platforms input parity is obviously a requirement and why MS fails so hard when they try it.

You try and fight the tide you get wet and thats it.

Instead of crying for the past you guys should champion the future, its 2018 our consoles should have input options (and more output options but thats for another thread.)

As long as those stuck on controller can opt out there is zero issues at all.
02/09/2018 09:35 AMPosted by BT160507
You guys do know games like Fortnite do not block M/KB on PS4, and they also allow cross platform play with PC!


If you are in a party where 3 play on console and 1 plays on PC you will all be directed to a PC-server. Why do you think that is?
02/09/2018 09:35 AMPosted by BT160507

You guys do know games like Fortnite do not block M/KB on PS4, and they also allow cross platform play with PC!

If we ever want a unified gaming community across platforms input parity is obviously a requirement and why MS fails so hard when they try it.


Yeah that's actually the reason I don't play that game. It's basically impossible to compete with a controller. The problem with M&KB is that it forces everyone to use it. Now you can't play on the couch anymore, but must play at a computer desk. If I wanted that, I'd just be a PC gamer.

I don't want a unified gaming community. I want controller-based gameplay to be a thing on console, and mouse-based FPS to be a thing on PC. Keep the assault rifles out of the archery range.
02/09/2018 08:10 AMPosted by AtlasTelamon
This is really so we can get a blue post and final answer.

I have both and also play on PC. I very much enjoy a mouse and keyboard and they are not similar and one is clearly better than the other.

BUT

XIM's are not mouse and keyboard. They do a decent job mimicking it, but they are in no way anything like it. Your muscle memory doesn't translate and a controller is honestly better on console.

A few major reason.
Lag: There is a noticeable lag when using them.
Max sense: Even maxing everything out to 100 you will not get the twitchy reliable aiming people are complaining about. It maxes out way too quickly.
Weird curve + dead spot: the weird dead spots and curve make it very strange and not 1-1 movement

Have you guys ever actually used them?

Now full M&K support for console gaming would be awful. The nature of console gaming doesn't support because it's a couch game. That would be FAR worse than what we have now.


What is the point of this post? Advocating m&k or against it? It's not like they're banning for it anyways
Sony and Microsoft won't let them ban kbm users - this is a settled issue - they can (and have) lobby the console manufacturers to change their mind, but they have not
It's not that they hate KB/M, they hate unfair advantages.

They want to make it easily open and available for absolutely everyone, or no one. That way everyone's on a level playing field.

It's just much easier to say you can't use added peripherals instead of trying to make them available for all.
What they should do is allow mouse and keyboard on console, but if you use them you play against other M+KB users and PC players, not in the console leagues. Probably you'd have to set this at account creation, although maybe you could buy a transfer (since it would have to include a full MMR/SR reset).

It gives players the most options. You can have the best controls on console, but you don't get to use the to gain an unfair advantage. And the PC leagues are opened to people who don't want to buy/build a gaming PC.
02/09/2018 10:06 AMPosted by Slyther0829

They want to make it easily open and available for absolutely everyone, or no one. That way everyone's on a level playing field.

If that was the case, they would have done so. PS and XBOX both support keyboard and mouse for developers to implement. Consoles in general have been capable of supporting keyboard and mouse forever.

Blizzard chose not to and instead are trying to spin their decision in a manner as palatable to both groups as possible. I don't blame them, that's the business way.

In any case, it's not against the rules to use an input conversion device because peripherals are allowed/disallowed by Microsoft or Sony.
02/09/2018 10:19 AMPosted by Mitrovarr
What they should do is allow mouse and keyboard on console, but if you use them you play against other M+KB users and PC players,

They can't do that, PC graphic settings are far superior to the options console has. PC has a much wider field of view available, among other things. They could match kbm with kbm, but not console with pc.
02/09/2018 08:24 AMPosted by KillLaChem
01/18/2018 06:01 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
...

Currently, we cannot do anything about players using input conversion devices to use Mouse and Keyboard on console.

However, we have put serious research and development against this problem and we're hoping to have a solution to what we consider to be unfair circumstances. This is a priority for us and we're trying to combat this through technology and policy.

We'll keep you informed on our progress and any policy changes as soon as they develop.

For now, please avoid reporting this behavior.

Final answer. Jeff says its unfair and theyre researching detection software to ban conversion software users.


thats good news.
02/09/2018 10:03 AMPosted by orangejuice
02/09/2018 08:10 AMPosted by AtlasTelamon
This is really so we can get a blue post and final answer.

I have both and also play on PC. I very much enjoy a mouse and keyboard and they are not similar and one is clearly better than the other.

BUT

XIM's are not mouse and keyboard. They do a decent job mimicking it, but they are in no way anything like it. Your muscle memory doesn't translate and a controller is honestly better on console.

A few major reason.
Lag: There is a noticeable lag when using them.
Max sense: Even maxing everything out to 100 you will not get the twitchy reliable aiming people are complaining about. It maxes out way too quickly.
Weird curve + dead spot: the weird dead spots and curve make it very strange and not 1-1 movement

Have you guys ever actually used them?

Now full M&K support for console gaming would be awful. The nature of console gaming doesn't support because it's a couch game. That would be FAR worse than what we have now.


What is the point of this post? Advocating m&k or against it? It's not like they're banning for it anyways


They are taking this stance that it's an unfair advantage but it's not. Them taking that stance causes so much toxicity it isn't funny. The moment someone gets a decent kill or does well everyone starts assuming they are using M&K and it's just not true. There are not that many user using mouse and keyboard. I spent almost $400 on mice keyboards and a XIM just so I could see if it was really worth the hype. News Flash.. ITS NOT. That just isn't something console players are going to do. You can see in this thread how triggered people get and assume that the "top 500" use M&K.

One of two things will happen, they will either ban people who are using tech that really isn't that good and doesn't really give anyone that much of an advantage ( nothing the moria didn't close the gap on)

OR

Allow for full native support of Mouse and Keyboard and that will COMPLETELY !@#$ console gaming.

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