Hawaii has established LOOTBOX regislation.

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02/13/2018 03:20 AMPosted by Kyaw
So will this include CCG card packs?

There is a profound difference between digital item sales and purchasing tangible items that can be resold.

If you open a pack of Magic cards, you can always resell or trade those cards. In Overwatch, you're stuck with all of those useless avatars and voicelines that you never wanted.
This is scary. It's one step closer to being taxed on in-game currency.
Never understood the gambling argument with cosmetics. If it affects gameplay then maybe, but with cosmetics you know you're 100% going to lose your money and get 0% of anything of any value whatsoever in return. That isn't gambling, that's buying something.
Am I the only person that sees Overwatch lootboxes / microtransactions as a non issue?

They are purely cosmetic and offer no advantage in the game. Look at basically any mobile game, or even some PC/PS4/XBOX games and their pay to win options.

$25, $50, $100, $150 to get better weapons/items, or for a random chance at getting "X" monster/weapon/item, etc.

You are not at any disadvantage by not purchasing lootboxes in Overwatch.
I do think that OW opened the floodgates with the dodgy knockoffs that other games because they saw it worked in this game.

But... we know the odds and duplicates were removed and we get lootboxes thrown at us. And they fine tuned the event stuff so the scarcity element didn't seem too grabby. Maybe they balanced the non dupe thing out by ramping up the amount of content you get, but that's acceptable too. It still does give you that vague gambling feel though and that should always be questioned in a place that isn't marked and 18+ casino, no matter how minor.
02/13/2018 03:30 PMPosted by SLThanatos
02/13/2018 03:20 AMPosted by Kyaw
So will this include CCG card packs?

There is a profound difference between digital item sales and purchasing tangible items that can be resold.

If you open a pack of Magic cards, you can always resell or trade those cards. In Overwatch, you're stuck with all of those useless avatars and voicelines that you never wanted.


It's not profoundly different. It's the same basic premise:
You're buying an item that you do not know the contents of. It is the exact same argument people make for gambling. You're betting on the fact that either the loot box or pack of trading cards you purchase will have your desired item.

Sure, you could buy the cards individually to begin with... Just like you can with Overwatch items.
The ability to trade them and the after market has zero relavence when it's the intial sale that is the gamble.

And honestly, if anything, you're better off purchasing Overwatch loot boxes than a MTG or a Pokemon Booster, because at least with Overwatchs loot boxes once you have something your odds of getting it again is severly lower. With booster packs you could open 1000 packs and have the same chances of getting the card you're after.
02/13/2018 03:43 PMPosted by NooneSpecial
And honestly, if anything, you're better off purchasing Overwatch loot boxes than a MTG or a Pokemon Booster, because at least with Overwatchs loot boxes once you have something your odds of getting it again is severly lower. With booster packs you could open 1000 packs and have the same chances of getting the card you're after.
I would gladly buy an Overwatch lootbox over a MTG card pack because after a certain amount of time, MTG declares that those cards you bought are no longer legal and you have to buy new cards to replace the cards you already have. There's no expiration with overwatch items as long as the game continues.

02/13/2018 03:33 PMPosted by Aureate
This is scary. It's one step closer to being taxed on in-game currency.
Like I said, once politicians get involved, it's bad news. Nothing is sacred to them. If they see it as a money jar they can get their hands on, you darn well know they will.
laws can not be retroactively be applied, OW is purchased online so it the laws that would govern blizzard would be in there home state.

This law would only affect console sales locally.
02/13/2018 04:10 PMPosted by Alkaline100x
laws can not be retroactively be applied, OW is purchased online so it the laws that would govern blizzard would be in there home state.

This law would only affect console sales locally.
Doesn't work that way. Some laws apply to where the company declares it's "base of operations" while other laws apply based on the location of the transaction which is the home of the consumer.

For example, when the RIAA was running amok and throwing court summons everywhere, the RIAA tried to sit in D.C. and make everyone come to them. But a judge rules that the RIAA had to file their court cases locally with each person they were trying to summons and take them to court locally.

Another example was the early renditions of the no-call lists. Some telemarkers thought they could skirt the law and just call people from a state that didn't have a no-call list law and call people who resided within a no-call list state. They got shut down hard.
it's good for greedy games like battlefront 2 but overwatch is really tame you can get it through free lootboxes and next year the item is regular price plus because of lootboxes everyone gets the event for free.
02/13/2018 03:38 PMPosted by Dubious
Am I the only person that sees Overwatch lootboxes / microtransactions as a non issue?

They are purely cosmetic and offer no advantage in the game. Look at basically any mobile game, or even some PC/PS4/XBOX games and their pay to win options.

$25, $50, $100, $150 to get better weapons/items, or for a random chance at getting "X" monster/weapon/item, etc.

You are not at any disadvantage by not purchasing lootboxes in Overwatch.


I'm perfectly fine with cosmetic lootboxes/microtransactions, people spending money knew what they are getting into so if they don't get their skin can't complain. Everyone is going crazy over lootboxes for stupid reasons...

The only microtransactions I'm against is if the game sells weapons that you can only get by buying and are superior to in-game weapons.
I find it weird as the offical ESRB page lists gambling with real money as an Adult/18+ game but they never enforce it with lootboxes
02/13/2018 04:16 PMPosted by Zefiris
02/13/2018 04:10 PMPosted by Alkaline100x
laws can not be retroactively be applied, OW is purchased online so it the laws that would govern blizzard would be in there home state.

This law would only affect console sales locally.
Doesn't work that way. Some laws apply to where the company declares it's "base of operations" while other laws apply based on the location of the transaction which is the home of the consumer.

For example, when the RIAA was running amok and throwing court summons everywhere, the RIAA tried to sit in D.C. and make everyone come to them. But a judge rules that the RIAA had to file their court cases locally with each person they were trying to summons and take them to court locally.

Another example was the early renditions of the no-call lists. Some telemarkers thought they could skirt the law and just call people from a state that didn't have a no-call list law and call people who resided within a no-call list state. They got shut down hard.


Actually you are wrong, time and time again the interstate commerce clearly establishes states can not do this unless there is a federal statute 1 state can not enforce it laws against a resident/company at another state.

The telemarketing law you are referring to is a Federal Do Not Call list.
02/13/2018 04:34 PMPosted by MRBobbyr
I find it weird as the offical ESRB page lists gambling with real money as an Adult/18+ game but they never enforce it with lootboxes
It's as if lootboxes aren't gambling.
The only time this change is that if the the company/resident in question falls into the jurisdiction of the state from which the action is initiated.
02/13/2018 04:36 PMPosted by Alkaline100x
02/13/2018 04:16 PMPosted by Zefiris
...Doesn't work that way. Some laws apply to where the company declares it's "base of operations" while other laws apply based on the location of the transaction which is the home of the consumer.

For example, when the RIAA was running amok and throwing court summons everywhere, the RIAA tried to sit in D.C. and make everyone come to them. But a judge rules that the RIAA had to file their court cases locally with each person they were trying to summons and take them to court locally.

Another example was the early renditions of the no-call lists. Some telemarkers thought they could skirt the law and just call people from a state that didn't have a no-call list law and call people who resided within a no-call list state. They got shut down hard.


Actually you are wrong, time and time again the interstate commerce clearly establishes states can not do this unless there is a federal statute 1 state can not enforce it laws against a resident/company at another state.

The telemarketing law you are referring to is a Federal Do Not Call list.
Wrong, the do not call list started as individual states and they prosecuted offenders across state lines.

Another example, WoW had their arena tournament realm and my guild leader at the time couldn't participate due to their state law and because their billing address located them within that particular state, they couldn't sign up for it.
02/13/2018 03:11 AMPosted by Abeyenopixel
Hello all, as we all know that a senator at Hawaii has been working on getting a legislation established and looks like its finally here, and it is more than likely it will pass. AAA games are about to get massive heat. The Legislation covers many loopholes as well.

http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/2018/02/12/hawaii-news/bills-target-video-games-with-rewards-for-a-price/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/7x4uoa/loot_box_legislation_established_in_the_state_of/

The law in place is very strict and looks like they are taking a casino regulation approach, people under 21 won't be eligible to purchase any lootbox. Please note that there will be loopholes as there is with casinos but this will limit the "freedom" games has at the moment. I suggest you all read it.

What are your thoughts? Do you want regulation on lootboxes?


As with anything making money, the government don't care if it rips off people and makes millions, they just want their cut.

So expect nothing to change, just a taxation will be implemented around them.
02/13/2018 04:37 PMPosted by Zefiris
02/13/2018 04:34 PMPosted by MRBobbyr
I find it weird as the offical ESRB page lists gambling with real money as an Adult/18+ game but they never enforce it with lootboxes
It's as if lootboxes aren't gambling.
So spending my money on a game of chance isn't considered gambling? Is it because what I'm gambling for is cosmetics? That makes no difference.
This is terrible. We should be fighting bad lootbox systems NOT the laws surrounding them. We don't need regulation for them because they are exactly like mystery boxes you buy from Ebay or trading card packs, or a bag of skittles. That's right, if you apply this to lootboxes you have to concede buying skittles is gambling because you don't get the exact color you want in the exact quantity. You are buying a RANDOM AMOUNT OF X THING and now that's apparently gambling.

Does that sound ridiculous? Well, too bad, because that's how it reads with lootboxes becoming gambling. You know this is bad and the courts argued card packs weren't gambling so loot boxes should be held to the same standard.
02/13/2018 03:30 PMPosted by SLThanatos
02/13/2018 03:20 AMPosted by Kyaw
So will this include CCG card packs?

There is a profound difference between digital item sales and purchasing tangible items that can be resold.

If you open a pack of Magic cards, you can always resell or trade those cards. In Overwatch, you're stuck with all of those useless avatars and voicelines that you never wanted.

There honestly isn't a big difference, hell I'd say OW's system is more forgiving.

They're both a pack/box of items that are completely random, except you're guaranteed at least ONE rare or higher rarity item in every pack/box.

OW's is more forgiving because duplicate items don't appear until your collection is nearing complete of that specific rarity whereas a pack of cards could grant you duplicates upon duplicates of cards you don't need or even want.

Plus the content of both items are not necessities in life, they're both 'addictions' if the other is.

Don't say one is okay and the other is not when they're essentially the same thing.

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